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Danielle_E.

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I took a couple of pictures of Dora for my own personal memorial and have asked Mona what color she thinks she is.

If any of you can tell me it would be much appreciated.

I apologize in advance to those that may be offended by these pictures and hope you took the warning and didn't open this thread. I basically need to do this for myself at the moment.

I will be re-breeding Abby as soon as possible.

Again, thank you to all those who have given me a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen and to all your words. It has been very comforting and it gives me the strenght to not give up.

Sleep well my angel Dora, even though we never had time to meet someday baby girl I will join you.



 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]Danielle, again so very sorry for your loss. She looks like she would have been black to me. Also, if she was still in the sack , was the placenta also attached to her when you found her? If so it separated BEFORE she was born and she had died before delivery.[/SIZE]

You probably could not have saved her so dont blame yourself.

Lyn
 

Danielle_E.

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Yes Lyn, the cord and placenta were all intact and attached. I removed it for these pictures.

It's interesting Lyn that you say that because with all the signs Abby was giving from June 19th until yesterday, the on again off again signs, I noticed and mentioned this to my husband about a week and a half ago that I was seeing absolutely no movement from the foal and that concerned me. I remember the night that I was in her stall around midnight and Abby almost literally jumped out of her skin 3 times as these very visible and very strong "jabs" I called it I witnessed. That was the first night that I saw Abby banging her back leg on the ground repeatedly, the first night I thought she would foal for sure.

If this were the case what causes this to happen? Your not saying it was a redbag delivery are you?
 
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mistyrose

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What color were her parents. It helps with a color like this because it can be several.
 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]Danielle, if it came all together as it seems it did then it separated before she was born. She was already dead then. From the look of her I would have figured she never struggled to get out. [/SIZE]

Lyn
 

nicole

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OMG Danielle, I am soo sorry for your loss. I am not sure of your story on what happened.

We lost one three years ago did not get out of the sack in time. It was really hard, we know have a camera in the barn.

Our thoughts are with you.

She looks black same colour as our colt.

Weeacre gang
 

Danielle_E.

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Mistyrose, that is the question of the century. Let me explain. Abby is a sorrel with silver to her. Now she was bred to my bay roan and she accepted him the first evening we did the handbreeding. She refused him the second night and proceeded to kick the crap out of him. A few days later I thought well she is out of heat so stupid me put her out with Flash, my junior stud (black and white pinto) as they get along so famously and didn't she allow him to breed. So I will never know who the sire was.
 

Danielle_E.

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The other thing is I find her quite thin, not sure if newborns are like this, very bony in the back end. Lyn, could it be that this foal was dead in utero for a week or a bit more. I guess the vet better come out and flush Abby so no infection happens. The entire placenta did come out, no bits of pieces missing.
 

Danielle_E.

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Thanks Lyn for your observation. I just spoke to my son who is the one that first came upon Abby and Dora and he just told me that the foal was lying on the placenta so that is an indication that the placenta was detached and was delivered first. At least some of my questions have been answered, thank you, and now we look to the future.
 

tagalong

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Danielle_E. said:
The other thing is I find her quite thin, not sure if newborns are like this, very bony in the back end.  Lyn, could it be that this foal was dead in utero for a week or a bit more. I guess the vet better come out and flush Abby so no infection happens.  The entire placenta did come out, no bits of pieces missing.
419192[/snapback]

Bolding mine. Danielle - if she had been dead that long then when you first found her and pulled away the membranes - hair would have come off in your hands. Her mucous membranes would have been white or gray. The placenta would have been the wrong colour... brownish instead of deep velvet red. And there would be a distinct smell - not necessarily foul - but wrong. It is hard to explain. Mom may have moved things around a bit as well so it would be hard to determine what arrived first.... I always have told myself that when a foal was lost - perhaps there was something wrong we would never know about... and thus it was for the best...

I never complain about photos of foals that did not make it. It is a way of moving on - and investigating...

I think Black was most likely for colour here.... maybe roan would have shown up as she was clipped later on... it often hides under the baby fuzz!
 
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lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]I agree, If she was dead more than a few days she would be more macerated as tag along said. Foals just born are thin and boney appearing they fill out as they begin to breathe and eat. My guess tho from the looks of her that the placenta wasnt nourishing her like it should. She is thinner than a normal foal. It may have started separating weeks ago. IF it was red and velvety it occurred just before birth. if it was brown and more leathery it was separated for a couple of days.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 

Danielle_E.

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Nicole, Abby wasn't overdue. She would have been due if calculating 340 days on July 28th. Her breeder, Karen, told me that her dam always only carried to 316 days. Abby had Dora at 319 days, yesterday. I am starting to think that the tough placenta and everything else could very well be related to fescue but I will never know at this point.
 

DebiM

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I know you are looking for answers, Danielle and I so wish we could give them to you. But I don't agree with Lyn though. I have had numerous foals born that have been followed immediately or shortly (before the mare got up) by the placenta & all foals were alive. It just happens that way sometimes, for example if she'd had a longer than norm labor.

If the foal is born dead and has been for several hours you can normally tell by looking at it all. As mentioned the color of the placenta is one thing. But I have had two foals born dead after prolonged dystocia Labors. Both foals had very slack lips, the lower one just drooping down. Their ears were still pinned back, too.

There could have been a problem with the delivery and that's why the placenta followed her. The length of time may still have been too long for survival had you been there.

I just didn't want anyone to think that when it was all intact that it always meant the foal was born dead because that isn't the case.

Debi
 

Miniv

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Danielle,

Lord....I am so sorry for what you going through. I know you are looking for reasons and answers.

For color -- I would guess she would have either have been black or a black based color such as silver dapple.

And by just looking at her, my first impression was -- without reading when Abby's due date was -- that she looks premature. I suspect something was wrong and caused Abby to foal out earlier than she should have which means your little foal would have had problems even if she had survived.

I've foaled out about 200 babies, and that was my first thought when I saw her.....I don't know if that is any help.

MA

PS: Just adding something.....after seeing a couple of other posts.... Not meaning to cause you pain, but, she was most likely alive at birth. If she'd been dead she probably would have not been presented right and Abby would have had a distocia. For Abby's sake, I'm glad for that. 90% of the time when a foal has their had folded back as a malpresentation, it for whatever reason, was already dead inutero. Abby would not have had such an easy birth if that had been the case, IMO. (Sorry for being so graphic.)
 
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Robin1

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Danielle, I am so sorry for your loss. It does sound like the placenta had detached prior to delivery. I had one like that this year, although it was at 9 mos., I don't think there is anything you could have done if you had been there.

Please don't blame yourself,

Robin

edited to add: I think she would have been a silver dapple.
 
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