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The Problem with Measuring

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wpsellwood

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Ed asked me to start this topic for him, I believe he is currently trying to become a member of Lil Beginnings and will be able to respond to any posts shortly. If not I will be relaying


Let me introduce myself, I am Ed Sisk, owner operator and trainer of Blue Ribbon Training Center in Washington Tx. Many of you I know, but there are many I do not. I have been a professional trainer in the AMHA for 24 years. I show in AMHA shows primarily and also AMHR shows periodicly over the years. I have been a member of the AMHA show rules committee at different times over the past 24 years and I am on the committee now.

The following statement is my opinion and my opinion only.

I have been reading all the threads on The forum and applaud all of the intensity that this measuring topic has created. The funny thing is that you are all correct in your thoughts. But until you unite to make a difference, it will be the same old thing, just a bunch of tounge wagging that keeps people talking and not doing.

The answer to this huge problem is so simple. We all want to blame somebody, well, put the blame where it belongs.I honestly do not think that the board of directors are totally to blame, just partially. The blame should fall on the person or person's that are hiring and instructing the official measurers on the criteria that will be used. It has been said that in the years past, that the measurers were instructed not to measure out any horses due to the fact that AMHA needed the money and also to be able to compare numbers with AMHR. If you witnessed any of the measuring in the past few years, It would be hard to beleive that this statement wasnt true. I have been fighting to correct the measuring for the past 4 or 5 years. I have witnessed all of the atrocities that most of you have heard about. Its like anything else, they wear you down, and the next thing you know, you are doing the same thing just to be able to compete. For the past 3 or 4 years, the exhibitor didnt have to cheat, the measurer did it for you. We measure every horse before we go to a show, some of these horses were measuring 1'' to 1 1/2'' smaller than they were. I was the person that protested the first 2 horses at last years world show. One horse is permanently registered at 33'' and the other was a horse that showed in the 32- 34 class the year before. Both horses were entered in the 32 and under class. When the protest measurement was finished, the first horse measured 33 1/2 and the other was 33 3/4. The lady that did the 1st official measurement made the statement," Well this makes me look bad" NO KIDDING, DO YA THINK. On one hand,I felt bad for her because I think she was instructed to not measure anything out. But on the other hand, she threw her integrity away by following instructions.She is not the only person to be the fall guy for this duty, there have been others.

I guess that the only way to fix this thing is to demand that it be done right the first time. Have people do the measuring that have a spine and enough guts to say that we will not measure your horse until you stand it up correctly and abide by the rules. If you choose not to, then remove the horse from the measuring area until you do. If an exhibitor gives an official any flack, they will be called to the show office and escorted off the grounds. This is the only way to stop the insanity. There needs to be a team that works together. 1 person to determine the position of the horse, one running the video camera and the measuring person. I believe that there should be a director present at all measurements. The board should be involved in the instructions given to the measurer.The intructions should be simple, DO IT RIGHT!

I was a little put out about our Presidents comment about how the trainers and the breeders were responsible for the loss of integrity in the AMHA. AS far as I know, we are not the ones that hire and instruct the measuring committee. All this would go away if you just do it right the first time.

If you truly care, unite and come forward to fix this situation. Demand that the measuring be done correctly. Stand up and protest a horse if you know he is too big. Too many people are scared to protest due to the fact of retaliation. Know what your horses measure and dont be scared to do the right thing. This is a turning point for the AMHA. They know they have a problem and have known it for several years. If they do not fix it now, Then the leadership of this association should be held accountable and the members should rally to replace them all.

Thank you

Ed Sisk
 

Buckskin gal

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WOW, this was really well said. And it can be done when people care enough to do it!.
Mary
 

whitney

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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
 

McBunz

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Well said..
I don't care who is responsible as long as it stops...
 
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HGFarm

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I could not agree more, and many of us have been saying this all along- and a rule change will NOT fix this problem!!

Thanks Ed!! Nice to hear from one of the 'big guys', LOL
 

Cathy_H

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There needs to be a team that works together. 1 person to determine the position of the horse, one running the video camera and the measuring person. I believe that there should be a director present at all measurements. The board should be involved in the instructions given to the measurer.The intructions should be simple, DO IT RIGHT!
.............
Pretty much what I stated in the other post. DO IT RIGHT the first time - WHAT is SO hard to understand about this in the minds of those that have control of it!!!
As I've said numerous times before for years now, "I guess it is JUST TOO SIMPLE for the powers that be ".................... Glad to see someone more involved in the show circuit think like us small time exhibitors.
 
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Riverdance

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I was delighted to see Ed last year at the World show, call out some horses on their heights. Yes one has to pay for it, but, you get the money back if it turns out that the horse is oversized.

I watched a trainer try and get a weanling into the show last year. It was back for its 3rd try. There are signs all over showing one how to set up your horse and how not to. Well I watched this trainer set up this weanling and everything that you are not supposed to do, she did. Then she stood there and pushed on the weanlings shoulders and back and stroked it. The whole time the measurer just stood there and watched, then she measured the weanling right at 30".


My stallion is a 31 1/2 boy and was 4 years old last year. They measured him at 32", even though he had been measured all summer at 31 1/2", even at the Regionals. When I brought him into his senior stallion class just about EVERY horse towered over him. How can one stand a chance when so many of the other horses in that class belonged in the next class up?

I AGREE WITH ED!! WE NEED TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THIS!!
 
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Amy

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LOL -- Looks like there would be a mass exodus to the office to be escorted OF the show grounds . What a joke.

AMHA makes them selves look more foolish with every turn of events. Now -- measure over to 34 1/4 to be "safe"'.

ED -- I think you have the right idea-- DO IT RIGHT.

However, it is sooo long since AMHA did it "right' I am not sure they would know how to.

I no longer have any faith in them or their decisions at all.

I was a showing member for 4 years in AMHA -- have been a member for about 12 years. We only bought AMHA horses & then put them over to AMHR.

I belong now only because you "HAVE" to be a member to do any business at all with them. (Another money ploy -- )

ALso -- I would no longer ever buy a horse that was registered ONLY AMHA -- it would also have to be AMHR as well to be marketable to me.

Sorry -- I agree with you ED but they have too many chances to change & "DO IT RIGHT" . Now it is highly unbelievable.

GOOD LUCK !!

For those that choose to show AMHA & measure over 34 inches by that lee way of 1/4 inch . -- HA -- you now are showing an AMHR horse under AMHA "flag colors". Don't kid yourselves-- that is what you have.

According to the great AMHA statement -- anything OVER 34 inches is NO LONGER a miniature horse in the "elite ' society.

Have had my say-- flame away. Showing your horse in its true division is not really so difficult as it is made out to be here.

Try it -- it is actually rather fun.!!

Join AMHR .
 
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faithfarm

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Hey this is not an AMHA only issue, so check your facts before doing a plug for AMHR. Ed is right the measuring has to be fixed. The answer could be to fine the measurer if a protest results in a horse going over the height for a class. If the $100 to pay back the protester came out of the measurers pocket, I think they would be a lot more accurate.
 

Amy

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I not only checked my facts - I read each & every post-- also I have read what several of the rest have had to say about it all. I am particullarly disgusted with the idea of allowing a 1/4 inch leeway in the measuring--

IF you read my post -- what I said was according to the AMHA mission statement ANYTHING over 34 inches is no longer considered a miniature horse in this elite society & many HONEST people have turned in papers based on that statement. Now a 34 1/4 inch horse will be allowed to show??

I said -- don't kid your self -- that is a horse that needs to be shown AMHR -- try it -- if it is an "honest measure" -- you just might have fun.

THAT is what I said & what I meant-- you don't have to agree with me -- but I AM a paid up member so I should be as entitled to state my view as to read someone else's.

Thanks -- I also agreed with Ed Sisk --
 
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Riverdance

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LOL -- Looks like there would be a mass exodus to the office to be escorted OF the show grounds . What a joke. AMHA makes them selves look more foolish with every turn of events. Now -- measure over to 34 1/4 to be "safe"'.

ED -- I think you have the right idea-- DO IT RIGHT.

However, it is sooo long since AMHA did it "right' I am not sure they would know how to.

I no longer have any faith in them or their decisions at all.

I was a showing member for 4 years in AMHA -- have been a member for about 12 years. We only bought AMHA horses & then put them over to AMHR.

I belong now only because you "HAVE" to be a member to do any business at all with them. (Another money ploy -- )

ALso -- I would no longer ever buy a horse that was registered ONLY AMHA -- it would also have to be AMHR as well to be marketable to me.

Sorry -- I agree with you ED but they have too many chances to change & "DO IT RIGHT" . Now it is highly unbelievable.

GOOD LUCK !!

For those that choose to show AMHA & measure over 34 inches by that lee way of 1/4 inch . -- HA -- you now are showing an AMHR horse under AMHA "flag colors". Don't kid yourselves-- that is what you have.

According to the great AMHA statement -- anything OVER 34 inches is NO LONGER a miniature horse in the "elite ' society.

Have had my say-- flame away. Showing your horse in its true division is not really so difficult as it is made out to be here.

Try it -- it is actually rather fun.!!

Join AMHR .
Why do you have to immediatly put AMHA down.
This is not about what club is better!!! But about doing what is right
AMHR has it's own measuring problems. In AMHR you have had an Over horse win the whole Nationals then come back 2 years later and win it again as an under horse.


Both clubs need to band together and have measuring standards done right!!

It is time for Minature breeders to quite pointing fingers at each club and band together for the betterment of the BREED!!!!!!
 

bingo

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But about doing what is right
AMHR has it's own measuring problems. In AMHR you have had an Over horse win the whole Nationals then come back 2 years later and win it again as an under horse.
Could this simply be a case of the .25 inch allowence you are all wanting for protests? I was not at the measuring of the above horse either year however would it not be pretty easily explainable that said horse was 34.25 one year and the next measured in at 34.00 according to those who are steadfast in the new AMHA rule being necessary?

This is of course not the situation being discussed here at this time however it surely does prove the confusion that can arrive from allowing a horse who measures in over 34.00 inches for whatever reason into a registry that is strictly for 34.00 inch or less horses.
 
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cjmm10

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JMO, I have been one of the unfortunate members that was asked to measure at an AMHA show. :DOH!

Well, I can tell you that I was ordered by several well known members to be sure their horse didn't measure over 34 in. I also was cussed at if a horse didn't measure under 32 in. several times.

I believe AMHA should have certified people do the measureing. And they should not be AMHA members at all. That way their would be no favorites.
again JMO CJMM
 

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