The "f" word...

[Marsha Cassada]

I went with a friend to take her horse for xrays today. She suspected arthritis. I didn't doubt he could have arthritis, but I suspected founder--the "f" word, all along.

The vet had her tool for checking hoof sensitivity. First time I saw his hooves up close in several months, and even I could see they did not look right.

He had white line disease for one thing.

Xrays showed rotation of the coffin bone. One front foot was worse than the other, but both were obvious. No arthritis.

My friend is taking him next week for blood test for PPID, pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction. This is a new term for cushings. The vet was excited about Prascend, a new medication for the disease.

So, what do you think she can expect from the tests, for the future of her driving horse with rotation of the coffin bone?

 

[chandab]

Prascend isn't totally a new drug for Cushing's, but it's now the company branded drug; pergolide, the active ingredient in Prascend has been available compounded for quite some time. Many vets will only prescribe Prascend, but compounded is still available and can be prescribed at any dose other than 1mg.

How the horse's future looks will depend on how on the ball she is with treatment. If she has a good farrier, then perhaps the laminitis can be halted and perhaps even turned around. Many people on the Cushing's Yahoo group are still working their horses, and have managed to bring them back from laminitis; but it takes lots of work and dedication.

I'm lucky, my Cushing's gelding has very good feet and hasn't experienced laminitis (or if he has, it's been so mild, that no one has noticed). I have a couple horses with laminitic issues, and they are certainly pasture sound; mine aren't trained to drive, so I haven't tested how they'd do with work.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I understand the pergolide compounding isn't always consistent and it's shelf life isn't stable; that's the advantage of Prascend.

This horse does not have good feet, imo. If the blood test does not show cushings (ppid), then it will be interesting to see what the vet recommends.

 

[chandab]

Compounded it's not recommended to have too much on hand; but with Prascend more than double the cost of compounded for what my gelding needs, I'll go with what I can afford and order it more often. It's working for us.

It's possible the horse has IR, many symptoms of IR and Cushing's overlap, but the treatment is different. Even a skinny horse can be IR. Both IR and Cushings can drive laminitis.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My friend dropped her horse off this morning for the fast/bloodwork. It will take 5 days to get results. Meanwhile, she is trying to gather information. If the bloodwork shows a physiological reason for the founder, such as something metabolic, then that is one aftercare scenario. If the bloodwork comes back with no metabolic problem, then that is a different aftercare.

Could anyone please share their experiences with rotated coffin bone, miniature or biggie? PM if you'd rather.

Thanks!

 

[shorthorsemom]

My pony foundered...he was in terrific weight and did not have a wooly coat and he was in a dry lot... The vet pondered putting him on the cushings medication while awaiting bloodwork... but decided to wait and only gave pain meds... two days after the initial founder he did it again worse and he rotated badly and was in horrible pain so she increased the bute.. then.he reacted to the pain meds and we lost him to bute toxicity. The positive cushings result came the day after we lost him. My boys rotation was not through the sole but it was bad enough that I suspect he would have never recovered fully. If I did over, I would have put him on the pergolide while waiting for the blood test results and I would have never given him that much pain medication. Founder is truly an F word. I hate it.

I had a biggie horse Insulin resistant.. he foundered. We caught it early.. His rotation was minimal. Once recovered he was sound again and were he a driving horse he would have been able to do anything. It took a year for him to "grow out the founder" and have normal hooves again. He was prone to abscesses in the white line for quite some time while his hooves recovered. he was put on thyroid medication and was turned out with a muzzle. That was forever ago before folks had all these new medication options. He did very well on the thyroid meds.

Any xrays to determine the damage and degree of rotation?

I hate white line disease too. I have had success with using pea gravel in my dry lot which helps make a nice hoof.

best wishes... hope this helps

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Yes, I saw the xrays. definite rotation. Vet said the sole was thick, so rotation not through.

My barefoot trimmer, when consulted, said he would soak the feet in icy water; he said it arrests the metabolic process. Pain meds (she was given equilox) for about a week. He said to ask the vet about a blood cleanser to help remove toxins from the body. (That's a new one to me.) No shoes of any kind, as he said the horse needs to be on the feet, even though it hurts. Of course, regular hoof care.

Horse is in a dry lot, so it will be doable to regulate feeding. It is soft and sandy; maybe not the best footing???

Thanks for replying. I will pass your success story on to my friend. She will need lots of encouragement.

 

[shorthorsemom]

When my biggie horse foundered he was given something to lower his blood pressure. I don't remember what. Icy water is for the initial founder. If he is in founder recovery ice won't do much. The pea gravel supports the frog and sole and is good post founder. Pete ramey has good info for treating white line disease. I put my biggie horse on Yucca pellets post founder and that seemed to help too. The bute was short term on my biggie horse. They can recover and I know many horses that have recovered and done terrific post founder even with decent rotation. Very important to have a decent farrier. Hooves can be trimmed to help recovery. My current farrier is fantastic as post founder hoof care and he has had many horse go back to very productive lives. My current mini is IR but not cushings. He gets remission or Quiessence in his feed daily. If I don't give this supplement he gets enormous fat pads, but on the medication he does ok on weight. He gets enrich 32, Quiessence and very plain grass hay and loafs in a pea gravel lot and if I turn him on pasture he gets a muzzle. With this care, he does great. My horse used to have white line disease and with the pea gravel this has not been a problem and my farrier says he has the best mini horse hooves in his practice.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My friend got the test results back for her horse. She said he tested positive for Cushings.

 

[chandab]

Quite manageable with minor diet changes and proper medication (at the proper levels for him).

 

[shorthorsemom]

Cushings is not a death sentence. I know of several folks with minis and biggies that have been successfully managed on Cushings medications. Takes a dedicated owner to be sure that the medication is delivered faithfully. My one friend cared for a mini with cushings that was exercised regularly by driving. She lived into her 30's on pergolide (I think that is what it was).. When the owner of the mini died and his daughter no longer wanted to hire my friend to care for the minis he owned... his daughter took over the care of that mare and did not dose her with her medications correctly. It didn't take too many months for that little mare to founder again and she eventually had to be put to sleep. My takeaway from that little mare's story was that she could exercise and live a normal life and to an advanced age with well managed cushings medication.

best wishes

It is worth a try if the rotation is not overly severe.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My friend said it was okay to post the blood test results here. (I've blocked out the vet and horse's name.) I thought it would be interesting for other horse owners to see. The cost for the testing was $300 plus boarding.