Temperature control problem... getting too cold..

[Calekio]

I've 3 little ponies who i asked advice on if they dwarfs... someone said one (the worse of the 3) was definatly a dwarf), but all three have been loosing weight in the cold weather we currently have.

We have had nights around -5 and days around -1 (currently a bit warmer... but not much)

Until about a week ago the two adults were living out, with 3 big rugs on at night, and 2 during the day... but still they are dropping weight... the 3rd who is a foal isn't dropping weight quite as rapidly but has been stabled at night since he was born and still has 2 rugs on.

None are clipped, none are getting too hot either... but i've not had such a problem with the adults before... but its the first time i tried leaving them out... and obviously... it hasn't worked! (and i feel guilty as within the last months i've hardly checked under the rugs for weight control due to moving yards, selling up etc.... so hectic and busy the horses have kinda been neglected in the fact they haven't been brushed/handled (obviously fed etc))

The worse of the 3 i noted was dropping weight before we moved... so upped his feed and that seemed to do the trip... but with me not checking... i didn't see it turn into skin and bones with no body fat, muscle mass or any meat on the bones! from withers done its a skeleton and even vet was shocked at how quickly he dropped that we ran all the blood tests but nothing out of the normal so she concluded he must have been getting cold and so using more energy to keep warm hence loosing weight.... which is now why he's gone all still on his hind legs as the poor confirmation is made worse by the fact he is cold. The other adult is a proper good doer who lives on fresh air and can go through times of being muzzled etc through winter he gets so fat... so his dropping back is a real shock!

The 2 boys have now been brought into stables.... currently having 2 stable rugs on at night and leg warmers...... i'm really struggling to cope with this one... a clipped horse i'd have no worries about putting 4 rugs on, big, full neck things.... but a fluffy horse my brain is telling me not to over rug... and normally these guys have coped fine wth just the one rug... this winter we are having to have 2 rugs plus........

Vet is as puzzled as i am!

 

[Riverdance]

I am thinking it is something else going on there.

I live in Minnesota and have 45 horses. We have been very cold for over a month. Below zero many nights and during the day,many days with wind chill factors 10, 20 or even 30 below. None of my horses come in at night, all are out in the cold with shelters to keep away from the wind. I have 9 weanlings, just turning 1. All are in good weight with no bony bodies.

Not one of them has a blanket on. First, their long hair does better without a blanket. A long coat on the horse traps air. the air heats up by body heat and helps to keep the horse warm. When you put a blanket on, it flattens the coat so it no longer can trap air, so the body is then relying on the blanket to keep it warm. Not nearly as good as mother natures intention.

My horses get a flake of hay 2x a day, plus I grain the adults with just oats 1x a day mixed with wet beat pulp, about 3 cups per horse. The babies get grained with a growth grain mixed with oats and wet beat pulp. I give them about 3 cups per horse 2x a day.

I check horses every feeding time by putting my hands on their backs to feel for their back bone. If I feel a sharper backbone, those horses are put together and they get more hay and grain.

When you have a blanket on, you can not tell what is going on underneith the blanket.

Unfortunatly, now you have to keep blankets on as they have no fat reserves. Also, I would keep them inside at night and during really cold days. Up their grain and hay intake. Because they are so skinny, it will take months to fatten them up. In cold weather a horse will use a lot of body fat, just shivering to keep warm, so before winter, they need to be in very good weight. I would forgo the blankets next year, just make sure they have proper shelter, enought feed (hay is important) and warm water.

 

[Royal Crescent]

Just out of curiosity, where are you located? You are several hours ahead of me in Minnesota! I agree with Sue about the blankets. Mine are out 24/7 with a shelter and no blankets and do fine. At the beginning of the cold weather, 2 of mine started out with blankets just while they got enough coat as they had late trims with showing at the world. I weaned them off by putting them out for the day with no blanket, then no blanket at night , then out without blanket 24/7. You can't do that this year as it is already too cold They have long coats and everyone says that they have less health problems when they are outside and can get normal activity. They are meant to be out there! Since you have dropped so much weight, I would check on what to add to their feeding program to add weight. possibly free choice hay for a while also. I am no expert, you might call the nutritionist at one of the feed supplement companies. One gave me some good directions on taking weight off of one of mine!

Good Luck!

Barb

 

[Calekio]

I'm in the UK..... so different weather to you over there ( i think your colder! lol)

Most of mine live out, happily without rugs on and just fluff up.. i always keep a check on weight and if anyone is dropping they come in for an extra feed or two during the day until they are back up to a decent weight.

These 3 though don't seem to ever cope (well 2 i know for sure... foal isn't coping with this cold weather.. so maybe he is going like the other 2)

The 2 adults (rising 5 & 7 this year) both seem to struggle with the weather.... they get cold quickly and suffer for the heat come spring, but don't lose there coats quick enough so i end up clipping them. Both are rescues, the older ones has a lot of joint problems and has arthritis... he normally gets fat on fresh air so unusal to see him drop... but also first winter he's lived out and obviously hasn't coped.

Both have had a clean bill of health (for then anyway... neither is perfect health but have controllable health problems) from the vet recently, and both had teeth floated/checked recently.

At the moment they are stabled at night and out with there friends during the day, its sunny during the day at the moment so i wait till it warms up a bit before putting them out, and get them in before it starts to get really cold. They get adlib hay at night (but only eat 1 flake each), and i've been in the phone to a feed helpline this morning and gotten some good advice so we are changing there diet to something that will help them more (obviously to be done over a period... so not a sudden change)

Foal has other problems which could account for his weight loss, he went for getting foal mix, sugarbeet & chaff to getting only pony nuts as has his underbite treated which means he can onlyeat soaked feed now, so he will now be gonig onto the same as the other 2 boys to try and fatten him up... he also seem to be starting to get cold (none of the 3 are ever warm to the touch under there current 2 rugs... hence should i put 3 on?) he's been stabled at night from birth as has some other problems which he is seeing the vet for. He is still on mum... but at 5 months old not much goodness there... she is looking ok considering she still has a foal on her actually.. however is also getting fed accordingly.... he'll be weaned when vet finished treating his mouth as i don't want to upset anything with him right now... especially mid winter and with his mouth...

As said the rest cope well without blankets... out of the other 9 ponies.. only 2 are blanketed... one because she has a virus just before winter.. so got blanketed then... and the other had his sweet itch rug on up until december so he isn't fluffed up like the others.. however only get blanketed on very cold nights... so trying to harden him up now!

 

[albahurst]

Increase the calories in some way- add alfalfa hay, more grass hay, oats, a fat supplement???

It is sure easy for them to get too thin in the winter without knowing it.

Good luck to you-

Peggy

 

[Riverdance]

I still say there is something else going on with them. I am not a vet, so I would not know, but it is unusual for them to drop weight like that. With two blankets , shelter and enough feed, they should not be dropping weight.

Try fat suppliments. I know your feed over there is so much different then ours, but when I have one underweight, I give a fat suppliment to it s diet.

 

[Keri]

Before feeding them more fat, I would get some blood work done. I had a gelding last winter that was dropping weight (figured it was the very cold nasty winter we were getting). Upped his feed and gave him some fatty stuff. Well, it turned out I was actually hurting him. We assume he has Cushings (I can't afford the confirming test). But the vet advised me to just stick with soaked beet pulp and hay. His body can't handle the fat and will, in turn, make him loose even more weight. He is only 7 and perfectly healthy before that. But Cushings is a very prominant disease in minis and ponies and has been recorded in horses as young as 7 (although its considered an old horse disease). I think its a pituitary glad tumor?? But I would do a quick jont to the vet to see if something is truely wrong with them. Good luck!

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

I have to agree with the others. Sounds like their could be something else going on with them. I have noticed that some feed companies and I'm talking about name brand ones too, change the feed formula without letting you know. The ingredients may read the same on the label but they have changed the proportions that they use. I have seen some of mine lose weight too for no apparent reason and can only assume the coastal hay is not very good(although it looks really good) or the grain/feed has been altered some. I feed alfalfa each morning to all my horses in addtion to grain and coastal. The reason I know about the pelleted feed being altered is that for two of my horses I soak their feed. The brand of feed/bag used to disolve slowly and now it is disolving very quickly. That means to me that they have upped the beet pulp they put in the feed, since the horses are losing weight on the same amount of feed. This happened to Strategy too, they changed the formula for that one two times last year. Picky aren't I? When I mentioned it to the feed store, they said yes! They have changed the formula on that one. I did not mention it the second time it happened, I hate to sound like I go their every little piece of grain I feed ")

It could be worms. Some dewormers work better (literally) than others do on the horses. Generic brands do not work as well as name brands, no matter what someone says. This is my experience at least. They could have tape worms too, have you tried Equimax? That has got to be the best dewormer I have ever used. I have seen worms expelled from some of my horses that should NEVER have a worm in them, given the regularity that they are dewormed and the products I use. Tape worms from I have read are in nearly 90% of all horses (I think that is what I remember it saying but an extremely high number in any case), but when given a dewormer you never see evidence of tapeworms as the equimax literally disolves them inside. You can tell if your horse has tapeworms by treating for them and how they literally improve afterwards.

Another reason could still be a dental problem. I have had Vets do my horses teeth and then have my equine dental practioner come only a couple of weeks later and examine all the horses only to tell me that the VET did not float the back teeth, or this mare needs this and that tooth pulled.

They could have ulcers too. Ulcers seem to keep them down in weight as well. Often with ulcers they don't eat or drink so it is pretty obvious it could an ulcer. Other times you don't notice the obvious signs of ulcers, but when treated for them improve in weight.

I do know that extreme cold or extreme heat will cause a horse to lose weight. Perhaps they are too hot. They do love the cold and when I first got into mini's I had all my horses in the barn at night, all with long coats and blankets on. They always had a respiratory infection going on. Since I have left them out in the winter (but with shelters from the wind), they are happy and healthy.

Good luck and hope that this resolves for you quickly.

Beth

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

It is really not cold enough there to cause your problems (I live in what we fondly refer to as the Great White North and it gets very very cold here. The only horses wearing blankets are those who have a special problem of some kind. Such as my weanling filly who is determined to get soaked to the skin daily and dirty to boot. I'm not sure HOW but thats another story. She wars a blanket to keep her dry so she can maintain heat. There is really nothing I can add to what the others have said; it seems likely something else is causing the weight loss and the most likely culprits are :

a) they need more feed

b) worms

c) teeth

d) a metabolic disease of some sort.

Since you are confident they are receiving sufficient food I'd start with worming them (you might consider having the vet do a fecal count but it may not tell the whole story) Then I'd have their teeth checked. Once those things were out of the way I'd get the vet to dig deeper for something else. Meanwhile I'd start them on something easily eaten and digested like beet pulp soaked to increase the calories going in. Good luck, I hope you figure out what the trouble is.

Oh and is it possible to put heat lamps in the stalls rather than piling on more and more blankets? Then they can choose to stand closer to the heat or farther from it and seek their own comfort. Just a thought.

 

[Allure Ranch]

I've 3 little ponies who i asked advice on if they dwarfs... someone said one (the worse of the 3) was definatly a dwarf), but all three have been loosing weight in the cold weather we currently have.
We have had nights around -5 and days around -1 (currently a bit warmer... but not much)

Until about a week ago the two adults were living out, with 3 big rugs on at night, and 2 during the day... but still they are dropping weight... the 3rd who is a foal isn't dropping weight quite as rapidly but has been stabled at night since he was born and still has 2 rugs on.

None are clipped, none are getting too hot either... but i've not had such a problem with the adults before... but its the first time i tried leaving them out... and obviously... it hasn't worked! (and i feel guilty as within the last months i've hardly checked under the rugs for weight control due to moving yards, selling up etc.... so hectic and busy the horses have kinda been neglected in the fact they haven't been brushed/handled (obviously fed etc))

The worse of the 3 i noted was dropping weight before we moved... so upped his feed and that seemed to do the trip... but with me not checking... i didn't see it turn into skin and bones with no body fat, muscle mass or any meat on the bones! from withers done its a skeleton and even vet was shocked at how quickly he dropped that we ran all the blood tests but nothing out of the normal so she concluded he must have been getting cold and so using more energy to keep warm hence loosing weight.... which is now why he's gone all still on his hind legs as the poor confirmation is made worse by the fact he is cold. The other adult is a proper good doer who lives on fresh air and can go through times of being muzzled etc through winter he gets so fat... so his dropping back is a real shock!

The 2 boys have now been brought into stables.... currently having 2 stable rugs on at night and leg warmers...... i'm really struggling to cope with this one... a clipped horse i'd have no worries about putting 4 rugs on, big, full neck things.... but a fluffy horse my brain is telling me not to over rug... and normally these guys have coped fine wth just the one rug... this winter we are having to have 2 rugs plus........

Vet is as puzzled as i am!

[SIZE=12pt]I'm interested to know what you're feeding them exactly and the quantity???[/SIZE]

I also believe that there may be something else at the root of the problem.... and I'd also check them daily without any time lasp based on the previous history that you already shared with us on another thread.

 

[HGFarm]

How severe is the dwarfism? Dwarfism also can mess up internal organs as well- there are many 'side effects' to that problem. I too would have your vet come out and check them to see if there is something else going on.

My friend had a tiny mare that produced an even tinier dwarf filly- the cutest thing that we all just loved. She matured at about 15" tall, but only lived a few short months after her first birthday. She had excellent care during her short life and the best vet care anyone could ever want, but depending on the severity and the individual, their life span is not as long as a normal horse. There are just too many problems.

 

[Calekio]

I'm no expert on the dwarfism.... my boy is 4 and half and i was told by someone on here that he looks like a dwarf..... but my vets don't know a lot about dwarfism either (not widely know over here i've found..)

I spoke to a big name feed company over here who have said to put him on a slow release energy cubes... which will be safe for him being a laminitic but also help him to gain wait, he then get a chaff and sugar beet pulp.

However i'm now beginning to think there is something else going on... dispite vet running bloods only a few days ago, as in the spaces of a few hours we've rapidly gone down hill... he is now very depressed and stary eyes, not seeming to be 'with us' any more, and has a very poor appitite... he will pick at grass but then stands in the corner of the field not grazing... won't touch hay or haylage and is picking on a off at feed... vets of course back being involved but i'm really worried this may be that time for my little man......

as he suddenly seems to have given up on life......

Will be getting EDT (my pratice has 2 quilified EDT who are also top vets..) to see him first thing monday, to rule out problems with the mouth..... but i just don't know what else to do.....

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Calekio, I wish I had some better advice for you. It seems that in spite of all the suggestions people here can offer this is one of those times when only a vet who is able to physically be there might be able help. I'm glad you have access to good care for him and I do hope they find the problem quickly and he is soon on the road to recovery.

 

[Calekio]

Well i'm worried.. obviously.. can anyone suggest anything to try and tempt him to eat.... should i let him go out into the grass paddock (only a little paddock beside his friends... who don't have much grass hence putting him somewhere where he might eat and he isn't touching the hay i put out..) or should i leave him stabled?

Obviously i want to try and get him to eat on his own... instead of vets having to get food into him another way and him having to end up stabled up with them... (which if he needs it i'll do it no questions asked... just think he'd be happier at home obviously)

He's recently had his feed changed... slowly on to something to put more weight onto him... obviously now taking the new feed out (as was still mixing with his old feed to do gradual change... funny i've only just whilst typing this thought about the fact he starting getting his new feed mixed in with his old feed yesterday....)

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Sometimes the act of typing things (or saying them) is all it takes to get some ideas going. I would do ANYTHING it took to encourage him to eat even to the point of hand feeding for a while. I do hope he is just being picky.

 

[River Wood]

I alo live in Minnesota like Riverdance with the horrible cold and wind chill factors well below zero. All of our horses are out 24/7 with good shelter available if they choose to use it.

Our horses are a wonderful weight with a brilliant bloom. They much prefer the winter over the summer with the bugs and heat.

We do not ever blanket unless they are clipped show horses.

I agree something else must be wrong.

Good luck!