Strong Objection To Rule Change Proposal

[Mercysmom]

Good Morning,
For those of you that say you are against the proposal that will change how the Jumping is done, with one round, timed and accumulated faults, why would you turn it down? Give us some reasons behind the no vote.

The way it is now, you run through the course as in a "trial" without being timed, you have to make a clean round to come back and compete. Hunter you go through just one time and no one complains. Jumper is no different. What you have to keep in mind, if you have a large class of jumpers, you are actually doubling your time causing the show to run that much longer. This just makes it comparible to Hunter.

Karen

Hunter is judged on the style of jumping and manner of go through the course - if I remember my big horse days, you want a safe horse in the field and the hunter showed that by doing lead changes, not chipping in or popping a fence... and you have a soundness check afterward. I have shown multiple hunters and had to get someone to jog my mares for me to expedite the class.

In jumper, it is all about going around clean. Go clean on the first round, then the fences are raised and timed. I have shown multiple jumpers in a show and I am not a spring chicken anymore...and for my son and me that is exciting.

Other classes take time as well - how about liberty classes with multiple entries?

It seems silly to limit entries in any division - especially in this economy. I'd love to know what the thought process is behind limiting entries... especially since the Hall of Fame points are hard to get without entries in the classes....

Denise

 

[Yaddax3]

I support Karen's one-round Jumper class, but there's one thing that would be helpful for all of us to know:

Does the proposal address how high the jumps will be?

At the moment, no jump can be higher than 24 inches in the first round and usually two jumps are raised to the maximum height of 30 inches for the timed round. Will one or two jumps be 30 inches in the one-round Jumper class?

My concern with that is, we often attend shows where there are youth or novice jumpers and it is thrilling for them to get a clean round and advance to the timed round, where all too often their horse refuses a 30-inch jump or knocks it down. I would hate to discourage or frustrate kids and new-to-jumping adults who are unable to get a clean round because the jumps are too high.

 

[osu_barrelracer]

Does anyone else notice that the miniature horse shows are starting to more closely resemble a dog show? You wonder why the rest of the horse industry laughs at our shows. Go do some research and find out how jumpers is supposed to be ran.

And if you are going to limit the amount of horses a competitor can show in ANY class simply for time's sake, you SHOULD HAVE TO DO IT for ALL classes (AKA no more than two entries in Obstacle, Driving Obstacle, Hunter, Jumper, or Liberty!).

 

[sdmini]

I realize that this may be a time issue but I want to point out something, no other class draws more attention than the jumper classes.

I was clipping horses this year at Nationals so didn't get to watch there but sitting in the stands for the jumper classes at World I was surprised to see how many people were there watching as well. When the class was over the stands cleared out in a hurry, even at our local shows Jumper is a class that gets more attention than any other. From my point of view I wouldn't limit a class that garners so much spectator interest, nor would I drop it down to one round.

 

[Minimor]

I would also vote NO on this rule change proposal. A jumper class is not meant to be "like a hunter class" and I wouldn't like to see the jumper classes run in just a single timed round. That comes down to who can run the fastest...or at least that's a good part of it.

If you're wanting jumper to be run as a speed class then offer an actual speed class....(gasp, an extra jumping class!!

) One of those classes where instead of collecting 4 faults for a knockdown you get 4 seconds added to your time--and it is an actual timed class. That would actually be a fun class, at least if you're fleet of foot!! An extra speed class--yes, I'd vote for that, but not if it were to replace the regular jumping class.

I don't think we should veer away from what "real" jumping is--let's keep it as the real thing, but in miniature. The above poster is right, we don't want to end up looking like we're in a dog show!

 

[Karen S]

Bob,

Nothing changes there regarding the heights. Only when you have to have a jump off.

Karen

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

Please do not change the jumping classes at all. It is a wonderful and fun class as it is! Here are numerous reasons to leave it AS IS!!!!!!

1)If people could not show more than two horses in a class it is damaging to trainers who show more than two horses for clients.

2) Why do you have to take away the jump off? Do you really want a horse sprinting in the ring without a chance to have a slower more warm up round? When people and horses are running at high speeds it is always nice to familarize with the course at a slower speed first and get the horses muscles warmed up. Some people may not warm their horses up properly before the speed round and it is good for the horse's muscles to be ready to sprint.

3)Also it makes the class more challenging and fun. If you have a good jumper, it will last the 2nd round. If you have a quickly thrown together green unproperly trained horse, sure it might make the first round, but it takes a second round to pick out the better jumpers.

4)Please note AMHA has much longer rounds, they just keep going until there is one horse left. At least AMHR does not do that.

5) If you are going to cut back classes, how about some of those extra halter classes. There are SO many of them. Or how about extra liberty entries? It really doesn't take good training to win one of those, just a wild horse.

So AMHR members please give well trained miniature horses a chance to show off their long hours of training and versatility to everyone. A horse standing still in a ring may not attract many outside people, but you can bet an exciting competive jumping class will!!!!!!

 

[Lmequine]

I will add that on the jumping class with my ponies that are well trained, they are trained to take that first round slow and easy and they immediately know when we turn right back around and do the same course that they are to run full out. This also teaches them the difference between hunter and jumper if the horse/pony does both events, first rounds always slow and easy. Also it was mentioned that the first round of jumping is like a "trial round". Maybe so, but that is where I plan my strategy for the jump-off....I figure out where I can turn tight, where the loose dirt is in the arena that will slow me down, where holes are in the arena that could cause me or my horse or pony to stumble, what angles can be taken for each jump, where I can cut a stride out, etc. I do some of that planning on the walk through but that is still not the same as getting a feel for what you can really do in the class when with your horse/pony.

In the beginning I thought that I would vote for just timing the first round of the jumper and not having a jump-off but the more I have considered how my horses and ponies react in the class AND what goes through my mind during the class, the more I realize that the class needs to be kept as it is, clean rounds back for the jump-off for speed.

 

[afoulk]

I too would not want to see a limit to the amount of horses that you could show in a class. However, if we want to be recognized by our larger cousins I feel that our courses could be more challenging.Don't need fancy jumps to do this just some tighter turns and various heights to jump. Most of the courses that I have seen have been a simple circle with maybe an in and out. To me this does not show the true athletic ability of the horse. Yes, you will get complaints that the course is too hard but it will go more towards showing the horse's athletic abilities and will also cut down on the clear rounds for the jump off. My personal opinion would be in this direction rather than making proposals for the rulebook.

Arlene

 

[Mercysmom]

My son Benn questioned a steward respectfully one time, some years back, just before the walk through. He asked why the first jump in a hunter class had to be "high" - I think it was over 24". His argument was that kids with horses new to jumping might not get their horses to the first fence in the ring - that kids and horses need a chance to warm up and that if they get over the first, the horse might be more confident to tackle bigger fences on another line. The steward, judge and show manager readjusted the fence. Benn was not worried about his veteran hunter/jumper - but as many kids were concerned, he spoke up on everyone's behalf.

A one round jumper course in my opinion is a joke. The horses need time to warm up and stretch muscles even to jump little courses and to see the course and the handler, while he/she does a walkthrough, it becomes a different story with a 200-400 lb horse on the end of the line - strategies must be planned. Take a corner too wide and you lose time. Take it too tight and you risk refusal or other faults because the horse needs to see what he is doing. There is a sync with the horse and handler when they work together well... green horses and handlers need time to develop that and it doesn't always happen at home - on the show grounds, many go into the "Show Zone."

In the big horse world, not many horses can shift gears to show both as a hunter and jumper and do it well... but our minis can. I agree with another poster that the horses feed off the routine and excitement as well and they expect a routine...hunters at a calm trot, make the distances, don't break, clean jump without popping or chipping in... jumpers - fast and go clean.

Then there is the excitement of the jump-off - who might make a mistake? Who will be the fastest? Who might make a tactical error?

I propose we have an exhibition class of mini jumpers at a larger big horse Grand Prix event... we might bring in a whole new wave of mini enthusiasts who like being a team with a horse yet don't feel like jumping 4'+ anymore. In CT, Ox Ridge had a big grand prix jumping event around Father's Day... I know we have some events in NY... I think Lake Placid hosts one and possibly at the Hampton Classic... alot of those big shows benefit agencies that rely on donations, which are hurting in this economy...

Plus, it is fun to watch big horse people's mouths hit the dirt when a mini clears three feet with nothing on but a halter and lead and its willingness to jump and their big warmblood saddled, bridled, guided with legs, seat, reins, spurs wants nothing to do with the same fence.

In the big horse world there are schooling rings and schooling time. Minis do not get the benefit of a full warm up and workout prior to competition - we are so lucky they do not sustain more injuries - my friend's TB would be injured if he went into a ring "cold".

I hope this is thought through further.

IMHO...

Denise

 

[muffntuf]

Yaddax3 has already achieved a demonstration at a Grand Prix Show in Minnesota!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

This is just another classic case of pushing the performance classes out. Performance takes too much time, so does halter. I know by watching the judges clinic dvd they would like the minis to be worked on the wall as shetlands. Might be cool to watch at local shows but do you realize how long that would take at Nationals.

I think this proposal is very silly and if it passes this will just hurt the registry.

 

[Yaddax3]

Just a note about having minis jump at Grand Prix events:

Our family was asked to do a jumping exhibition at a $30,000 Grand Prix event at our state fairgrounds last Saturday night. We brought five of our six National champions and the crowd of nearly 5,000 people loved watching them jump. I encourage anyone with a Grand Prix jumping event in their area to contact the people running it and offer to do a jumping exhibition -- assuming, of course, your minis can jump.

As for the split opinions about having just one timed round, I like it fine the way it is. And, for selfish reasons, I'd be fine with jumping just one round due to my advancing age and a body that can go on the blink at any time.

I believe a good jumping mini is going to do well whether it's one or two rounds. It appears some people use the first, qualifying round as a warm up for their minis. I try to warm up our minis before the jump class begins. We always travel with at least one practice jump.

Some people use the first round to get a better handle on the course. I decide strategy during the walk-through, not the first round. Most of the time, I'm the last one off the course because I'm analyzing the jumps and turns before that first round. I'm not saying my way is the best way; it just works for me.

Nor am I saying having just one timed round would be the best way. I'm just saying it would work for me.

And if that proposal is voted down, I certainly won't complain if things stay as they are. We've done all right with the current format. I think we'd do all right with the proposed format, too. I don't believe it's the number of rounds that matters. A good jumping horse is a good jumping horse, no matter how the course is set up or how many times he or she has to run it.

Anyway, that's how I feel. It doesn't mean I'm right.

 

[Mercysmom]

Just a note about having minis jump at Grand Prix events:
Our family was asked to do a jumping exhibition at a $30,000 Grand Prix event at our state fairgrounds last Saturday night. We brought five of our six National champions and the crowd of nearly 5,000 people loved watching them jump. I encourage anyone with a Grand Prix jumping event in their area to contact the people running it and offer to do a jumping exhibition -- assuming, of course, your minis can jump.

As for the split opinions about having just one timed round, I like it fine the way it is. And, for selfish reasons, I'd be fine with jumping just one round due to my advancing age and a body that can go on the blink at any time.

I believe a good jumping mini is going to do well whether it's one or two rounds. It appears some people use the first, qualifying round as a warm up for their minis. I try to warm up our minis before the jump class begins. We always travel with at least one practice jump.

Some people use the first round to get a better handle on the course. I decide strategy during the walk-through, not the first round. Most of the time, I'm the last one off the course because I'm analyzing the jumps and turns before that first round. I'm not saying my way is the best way; it just works for me.

Nor am I saying having just one timed round would be the best way. I'm just saying it would work for me.

And if that proposal is voted down, I certainly won't complain if things stay as they are. We've done all right with the current format. I think we'd do all right with the proposed format, too. I don't believe it's the number of rounds that matters. A good jumping horse is a good jumping horse, no matter how the course is set up or how many times he or she has to run it.

Anyway, that's how I feel. It doesn't mean I'm right.

I can take our Mercy to a jumping course cold and she knows what to do... and we do not practice at home - she knows what her job is. Her Hall of Fames in Hunter and Jumper and multiple wins speaks for itself. If folks see her coming I often hear "Oh, the fat black and white horse that jumps is here."

The beauty of our mini hunter and jumper events is that these horses perform without the aids - they are pointed at the fences and jump for the pleasure of it. Ultimately, is that not the goal a true horseperson has - to be such a team with a horse they do not need to force each other?

My concern is promoting hunters and jumpers and running jumper courses the way they are TRADITIONALLY done, be it for minis or big horses. When they start altering courses to save time, my showing days are done.

I am still for doing a Grand Prix show promotional event... one coming up in Syracuse at the end of the month. Anyone game? I am in a cast but would be willing to give it a go... just need a ride as I am horsetrailer less for the moment...

Oh, and I just turned 45 - any chance for me to run like I did when I was a kid is welcome!

IMHO...

Denise

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

I can take our Mercy to a jumping course cold and she knows what to do... and we do not practice at home - she knows what her job is.

Its good that your horse is accomplished enough to jump this way, but please consider practicing at home a little and warming up a little at shows. It is not fair to the horse's muscles to be asked to jump from not being warmed up. Would you want to go sprint a race with hurdles and never practice or warm up? You might tear a muscle. Jumping horses are athletes and should be treated as such. Please understand that even though a 2 or 3 foot jump may not look like its very hard to them, it still is a strain on their muscles and bones.

 

[Mercysmom]

I can take our Mercy to a jumping course cold and she knows what to do... and we do not practice at home - she knows what her job is.

Its good that your horse is accomplished enough to jump this way, but please consider practicing at home a little and warming up a little at shows. It is not fair to the horse's muscles to be asked to jump from not being warmed up. Would you want to go sprint a race with hurdles and never practice or warm up? You might tear a muscle. Jumping horses are athletes and should be treated as such. Please understand that even though a 2 or 3 foot jump may not look like its very hard to them, it still is a strain on their muscles and bones.

Oops - should have clarified my statement... Mercy and I do warm up and stretch BUT this is the point I was making. Yes, the jumping horse is an athlete and we should not be subjected to time constraints at the expense of our horses.

When I say "go cold" - I don't have to pound my horse over fence after fence for her to "get it." I know big horse people that do that and their horses get sour. We cross train in other ways - if we didn't I could not keep up with her - I go at it wearing a custom brace to save what is left of my ACL due to my dog taking me out in 2003. For my up and coming jumpers we do practice but not big fences all the time- things are varied so the horse stays interested.

Sorry I seemed so cruel... yes there are horses out there that don't need the first round but many do. The final word as I don my flame gear...

Leave the jumper courses alone and let entries be.

Amen.

Denise