Stifle problem

[jeniemac]

Ok ,if it is going to happen it will happen to me.

2 weeks a go I had a weanling trimmed for the first time, at the same time I changed to alpha hay. Now 2 weeks to the day later I have a colt 4 months old with a stifle problem. He just came up to the barn like that. Soo is it a stifle locking thing or is it an stifle injury?

Do you treat it the same as a locking stifle or differently if it is an injured stifle?

When he walks he is fine when he stops and stands it locks up..

Giving ..banamine..vit e & salineu, rounded the toe..lowered the heel(that idea seemed to make it worse)...

Any another suggestions would be appriciated.

 

[disneyhorse]

Are they related at all?

I believe that 99% of locking stifles in minis (and Shetlands) are an inherited, genetic trait. I just don't see the same number of locking stifles in other breeds! I also haven't seen a lot of stifle "injuries" just pop up... and I've seen lots horses do lots of dumb things (pull back tied, run and slip on concrete, fall in washracks...)

A lot of people always go to the excuses "they grow out of it" or "it's a nutritional imbalance" or whatnot... but I just suggest supporting the horse as best possible (exercise, square the toe in back, and consider surgery as the horse matures if the situation does not lessen)...

I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps your veterinarian would best be able to help you along.

Andrea

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I agree that upward fixation of the patella is usually hereditary. But, some will do it less if fed, excercised, and trimmed properly for that individual.

Injured stifles tend to create a toe touching limp. Not a locked stifle.

Dr Taylor

 

[Minimor]

Unless there is heat/swelling/tenderness in the stifle it quite probably is not an injury. If there is an injury it is very unlikely that upward fixation of the patella is going to be the first symptom. I would agree with Andrea that most of the stifle problems in Miniatures are NOT injury related

Most definitely lowering the heel would make the problem worse--that is the opposite of what you want to do! Long toes/short heels do add to the problem--to help you want to shorten and roll the toe.

 

[Lizzie]

In dogs, Patella problems are definitely hereditary. Just one of the reasons responsible breeders of dogs X ray under anaesthetic and have the results read by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. There are four grades of luxation. Dogs found with the problem, should not be bred. I imagine patella problems in Minis is also hereditary.

Lizzie

 

[jeniemac]

Unless there is heat/swelling/tenderness in the stifle it quite probably is not an injury. If there is an injury it is very unlikely that upward fixation of the patella is going to be the first symptom. I would agree with Andrea that most of the stifle problems in Miniatures are NOT injury related

Most definitely lowering the heel would make the problem worse--that is the opposite of what you want to do! Long toes/short heels do add to the problem--to help you want to shorten and roll the toe.

SO LEAVE THE HEAL ALONE. JUST ROLL THE TOE?

 

[jeniemac]

I agree that upward fixation of the patella is usually hereditary. But, some will do it less if fed, excercised, and trimmed properly for that individual.

Injured stifles tend to create a toe touching limp. Not a locked stifle.

Dr Taylor

IS IT UNUSUAL FOR A 4 MONTH OLD TO DEVELOPE THIS PROBLEM?

 

[jeniemac]

Are they related at all?

I believe that 99% of locking stifles in minis (and Shetlands) are an inherited, genetic trait. I just don't see the same number of locking stifles in other breeds! I also haven't seen a lot of stifle "injuries" just pop up... and I've seen lots horses do lots of dumb things (pull back tied, run and slip on concrete, fall in washracks...)

A lot of people always go to the excuses "they grow out of it" or "it's a nutritional imbalance" or whatnot... but I just suggest supporting the horse as best possible (exercise, square the toe in back, and consider surgery as the horse matures if the situation does not lessen)...

I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps your veterinarian would best be able to help you along.

Andrea

I HEARD ALL THAT TO ..THIS IS MY FIRST STIFLE PROBLEM AND THIS MARES 10TH FOAL WITH NO PROBLEMS..TILL NOW.. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT IT HELPS

 

[jeniemac]

Are they related at all?

I believe that 99% of locking stifles in minis (and Shetlands) are an inherited, genetic trait. I just don't see the same number of locking stifles in other breeds! I also haven't seen a lot of stifle "injuries" just pop up... and I've seen lots horses do lots of dumb things (pull back tied, run and slip on concrete, fall in washracks...)

A lot of people always go to the excuses "they grow out of it" or "it's a nutritional imbalance" or whatnot... but I just suggest supporting the horse as best possible (exercise, square the toe in back, and consider surgery as the horse matures if the situation does not lessen)...

I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps your veterinarian would best be able to help you along.

Andrea

THANKYOU DOC.

HIS DAM HAS NEVER HAD A FOAL WITH A STIFLE PROBLEM ,THIS IS WHY I AM PUZZLED..

I HAVE CONSULTED WITH MY VET AND THE FARRIER AND THEY BOTH ARE ON CALL FOR QUESTIONS..SO I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING SUGGESTED ..I GUESS I NEED TO JUST KEEP ROLLING THE TOE AND LEAVE THE HEAL ALONE...THE EXERCISE IS LIMITED AS HE BENDS THE FOOT BACK AND IT BUCKLES WHEN HE IS LOCKED AND TRIES TO STEP.. SO I NEED TO HAVE HIM IN A CONTROLLED EXERCISE AREA SO HE DOESN'T MISS STEP AND BREAK HIS ANKLE.

I JUST NEEDED TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY THING I MISSED.

 

[disneyhorse]

Oftentimes people don't notice stifle issues in horses because it can be sporadic. Sometimes all you notice is some drag marks in the dirt in their stalls, you may never actually see the horse lock.

I wouldn't worry about "breaking his ankle" he should have free run of an area if you can provide it. The horse will not understand what is wrong with him, he should self-preserve when he locks up. If he locks up when you are there, try backing him to help unlock the joint.

Good luck,

Andrea

 

[Mini Love]

If he did not show this before, it may have been the trim I have been through a case of stifle Lock in a 2 to 3 month old rescue - He came to with out his mare, under weight filled with worms BUT no Stifle Lock Farrier came a week or so after we got him and in a few day's Stifle Lock - I had the vet out the same day... He said in Mini's it can be a inherited, genetic trait. HOW ever because he was so sick & all of the sudden was being fed as he should, The vet said it could be a growing spirt & with him just getting trimmed something could have been un even before his trim... These 2 things being said, The farrier came back out and took a little off the toe. after a week or so he never had another issue with stifle lock. One thing the vet told me to do was to feed him the best food, since he should of still been with the mare and to walk him up and down a bank in my yard.

3 years later and never had an issue

Wish you the best of luck and hope that it was brought on by his trimming, if so it will be a one time thing

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

IS IT UNUSUAL FOR A 4 MONTH OLD TO DEVELOPE THIS PROBLEM?

4 months old is a little earlier than average, but not outside the realm of reasonable.

Just because something has an hereditary component to it doesn't mean it would be passed to offspring 100% of the time. Plus, stifle problems aren't like color genetics, there is a relative-ness to stifles whereas color is either there or not not. What I mean is that some stifles can be just mildly effected and no therapy or conservative therapy may alleviate the problem, others will be severely effected and require surgery.

Dr Taylor

 

[shorthorsemom]

On one of my boys, long toe and low heel equaled slipping stifles. I have a new farrier and with proper angles, more heel and the right length of foot and a more natural toe and hoof trim, combined with 5 week trims and staying on top of the feet and more turn out and exercise for my boy and the stifle problem went away completely. He is 3 years old. For awhile I had the farrier in every few weeks, well worth the money to have a pro farrier work with me to fix some issues on all my horses created by the "bargain farrier" I had poorly chosen. My new guy has a measuring device and he showed me how off the angles were on my boys, there is actually a specific measured angle recommended for all horse feet. Once all my boys were balanced, I was amazed at how much better the feet looked and how great they all traveled. The white line issues that plaqued me all summer went away too, because landing improperly can cause the horse to create flares, open up the white lines and can contribute to all kinds of hoof problems you wouldn't think would be only related to the trim.

I had a full sized horse many years ago that was plaqued with stifle problems quite a bit. Later when he got much worse even with treatment, hill work, exercise and proper trims, we xrayed and found that he had tumors in his stifle joints, quite the unexpected find. He was a worse case senario.

There can be many factors that cause stifle problems and treatment can be very different from horse to horse. Many of them are easily tweeked back into soundness. Trims and angle can be critical. Some horses don't lock, but if you watch them when they turn you will see them hitch and hold the stifle in place. Our horses are pretty good at adapting themselves, sometimes we notice the "lock", but in reality the horse has been slipping for quite some time and it only got severe after a trim or adjustment.

Best wishes... many stifle problems are easily managed and corrected.

 

[jeniemac]

Thanks to all who have replied to my post. You have been a comfort...This little guy was moving around in his stall this am with no apparent stifel problem. I am keeping him up for a couple of days to see if he is ok..so far no locking..

I am a little confused as it seem to have went away as quick as it came on...

I have changed his diet to a mare and foal and alpha soaked cubes and vit e and selinum. My farrier is scheduled to come later in the week to check on him..hopefully things will be as they are this am.

 

[jeniemac]

4 months old is a little earlier than average, but not outside the realm of reasonable.

Just because something has an hereditary component to it doesn't mean it would be passed to offspring 100% of the time. Plus, stifle problems aren't like color genetics, there is a relative-ness to stifles whereas color is either there or not not. What I mean is that some stifles can be just mildly effected and no therapy or conservative therapy may alleviate the problem, others will be severely effected and require surgery.

Dr Taylor

Does it come on in an instant and leave as quickly?

 

[AnnaC]

Whatever has caused it - and it sounds as though it might have been that trim, with the farrier taking too much off the heels and not enough off the toes - please dont 'confine' him, he needs as much space as you can afford to give him. Horses/youngsters with any sort of stifle 'catch' need to be able to move in straight lines as much as possible and to avoid walking in circles (as in a stall or restricted space).

Get those toes trimmed and rolled back and hopefully this might turn out to be just an unfortunate incident. Good luck!

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Does it come on in an instant and leave as quickly?

Yes. Either its locked or not. Just because it locked now doesn't mean it will relock soon or not.

Dr Taylor

 

[jeniemac]

Now I am really confused..

This foal is now running around kicking up his heels as if nothing has happened...no sigh of locking up...

Yesterday he was walking around his stall which has a 5% incline in it ,no sign of locking up..

This am ..I just got back from the barn and he was doing roll back in his stall so I turned him out with his stall buddy and he took off like his butt was on fire..as far as I know he is still running in his 90 foot run with a 10% incline...

Keeping my fingers crossed it is over and it was just a bad heel trim..

Thank to all for your help in trying to figure this out. I am keeping a close eye on him but I think with his attitude and the inclines in his area he may have fixed himself..

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Now I am really confused..

This foal is now running around kicking up his heels as if nothing has happened...no sigh of locking up...

Yesterday he was walking around his stall which has a 5% incline in it ,no sign of locking up..

This am ..I just got back from the barn and he was doing roll back in his stall so I turned him out with his stall buddy and he took off like his butt was on fire..as far as I know he is still running in his 90 foot run with a 10% incline...

Keeping my fingers crossed it is over and it was just a bad heel trim..

Thank to all for your help in trying to figure this out. I am keeping a close eye on him but I think with his attitude and the inclines in his area he may have fixed himself..

Its difficult to understand this issue without having knowledge of the anatomy involved in a 3-D orientation. Since my ability to draw it is worse than my ability to explain it then I'll try an analogy.

Consider if you had a starter on your car that had a flat spot. If that flat spot is in just the right position then the car will not start, no how no way. But, if the flat spot doesn't fall in the right spot then the car will start and run perfectly and may start fine many times over. Do you need a new starter?? Well it depends on how often the car doesn't start and that relates to the size of the flat spot inside the starter.

Here's hoping the problem never returns.

Dr Taylor

 

[jeniemac]

Its difficult to understand this issue without having knowledge of the anatomy involved in a 3-D orientation. Since my ability to draw it is worse than my ability to explain it then I'll try an analogy.

Consider if you had a starter on your car that had a flat spot. If that flat spot is in just the right position then the car will not start, no how no way. But, if the flat spot doesn't fall in the right spot then the car will start and run perfectly and may start fine many times over. Do you need a new starter?? Well it depends on how often the car doesn't start and that relates to the size of the flat spot inside the starter.

Here's hoping the problem never returns.

Dr Taylor

Ok My anatomy knowledge of a horse is better than my anatomy of a car..lol

I understand the functions and the anotomy of the stifle(i just can't spell it right two times in a row)..I understand that by rolling the toe that helps tighten the stifle so it doesn't slip off the joint ..

what I am having trouble with is what happened to the leg to let it do that in the first palce..answer in my mind the farrier trimmed his heel shorter than his toe so it loosened the stifle legament so it would not let his leg function properly... with that said..why did it take 10 days for it to happen? Shouldn't it have happened within a day or two?

So the only thing I can really do is to let the foot grow out and start over again leaving the heel alone, just take a couple of swipes with the rasp on the toe every so often..

Afternoon check:

I just checked him again and after being out running this AM both of his back legs are locking now not just the one..seems the stall rest did him more good than the exercise..Howis that possible? Are we looking at a torn something?