Starting to Panic a Bit- Photo added

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Sandy B

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Most of you all know about the horrible year we had last year with our two pregnant mares (lost two foals and a mare or first year with minis). I have foaled out many large horses over 25 years and thank God have never had any major complications. Then last year, our very first year expecting mini foals, we get hit with the worst- red bag, severe dystocia and a cola that did not make it out of the sac. We thought we were prepared and actually were, so we thought. This year, we have added Equipage monitors as a back up to our cameras we have had for years and we have milk test strips as well. I also have a complete foaling kit with everything you could imagine possible and we built a hoist in one of the stalls. My vet lives down the street and she is also ready for any 911 call from me. So I think I am ready, but am I?

We have two mini mares in with halter alarms and under cameras right now. One is 313 days and the other 312 days. The 312 day mare has been bagging up for some time and the last several days has really increased in size. Then this morning instead of getting clear liquid out, it has switched over to non fat milk color which surprised me as her udder still has a ways to go in my opinion. The other mare a day ahead of her has just started getting her udder but there is nothing in it. I have heard all the stories if mini mares do not follow the foaling text book and most do not wax but if this was a full sized horse getting its milk in, we would typically be expecting a foal very soon. She is also very quiet and not eating with her normal gusto, but this started last night ad I wrote it off to their pre-foaling booster vaccines they got yesterday afternoon even though the other mini mare is acting normal. So this mare is getting her milk in, is very quiet, and off her feed some. I can not milk her enough to do the test strips, but can get enough in a clear cup to see the color well. Do you think it is the vaccinations or her getting close to foaling? Her vulva is not as relaxed as I would expect it to be but I know these things can change rapidly. Do mini mares typically get their milk in right before foaling like most big horses do, or can they get it in weeks before?
 
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Sandy- I don't have enough experience to answer your questions, but I know only too well that feeling of panic. I hope you can try to relax (I keep telling myself the same thing) as you have the alarms and the camera, so let them help you!! One thing I keep hearing around here is that all the usual rules are out the window due to the crazy weather. If you check in at Mare Stare you will see MANY mares that test ready for DAYS and some have gone well over a year gestation.

Are your mares on private cams or Mare Stare? I appreciate all the eyes I am getting, plus the comments on the photos I post on the mare stare thread on this forum. Maybe you could post some photos on here for comments?

Oh, and when you mention full size horses - my very first foal was out of a full size horse that wasn't even supposed to be pregnant and I STILL guessed that she would foal the evening that she did. Not so with the minis, although by checking milk for consistency (i.e. sticky milk=foal soon), I have been fairly accurate. Then things go wrong.

Good luck!!!
 
Oh you poor thing..... foaling season is so stressful. I had big horses all my adult life before getting into Minis and it certainly is nothing like the full sized ones. My first couple of years were horrible and I just about gave it up all together! I am so sorry about the horrible year you started with- hopefully this year will be much better!

I have had mares foal as early as 310 days. Am waiting on one now that is at 336. Every year can vary, and these guys make up their own rules and are not necessarily consistant from year to year either! Very rarely have I had a Mini mare wax! Mostly mine do NOT, so I dont rely on that. Also, some mares, not many, but a few, dont have their milk really come in til they actually foal.

If you have your camera up and your alarms, that is pretty much what I rely on, as the other signs are just to 'iffy' and some show obvious signs, some do not. Some show obvious signs for days but I have had a couple of surprizes over the years!

I know it's much easier said than done, but try not to worry too much! Our vet always recommends that we have gas in the truck and the trailer is usable (not full of feed or something) at foaling time so if we need to rush to meet her somewhere or at the hospital, etc... Just be prepared, and it sounds like you are... and good luck! I dont know about the vaccinations affecting what is going on, so have no advice to offer there.
 
Are these maiden mares, or have they foaled before? I've been breeding miniatures for 20 some years and even now I still see things that surprise me with these expectant mares-- they typically don't do ANYTHING in a typical manner!
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Very few of my mares wax up, but when they do, they can hold on for a week or even longer, strangely enough, before foaling. A maiden mare last year never did relax in the vulva to any real extent. I've had mares foal when their bag looked like they were nowhere near ready to foal, and the list goes on. I rely strongly on the milk test strips along with all other signs, and get next to no sleep during foaling season, sigh...

With your one mare acting unusually, I would be watching her extremely closely. Good luck with your mares this year!
 
Thanks you guys! I know I am doing all I can and now just have to wait. Do mini mares typically get milk in right before they foal like most full sized horses do? I am not relying on wax since that was the one thing I heard mini mares do not typically do. Its just now that she is getting her milk in and she is very very quiet and picking at her food, should I expect a foal in the next day or two like I would a full sized horse?

I do not know if this mare has foaled before. The next one due has foaled before as well as the remaining other three that are expecting.

Oh and my cameras are private as we do not have high speed internet in our area, we rely on a wireless card and it can not stay on full time.
 
Many of my Mini mares DO wax just as the big horse mares do--but some haven't....or if they did it was very last minute & I didn't see it then. I've had a few that were streaming colostrum for hours prior to foaling...much more than simple waxing. Some mini mares get their milk in well ahead of time and run milk off & on for a few days prior to foaling, others don't get any actual milk in until well after foaling--they will have a good amount of colostrum but no real milk, some get it just prior to foaling or right after...there seems to be no rule.

And yes, everything can change very quickly--the vulva can go slack very suddenly, the mare can foal with very little bag at all & yet still have enough colostrum for the baby--and some new foals can find the nipples & latch on & nurse even when the bag isn't full & the nipples are still pointing inward toward each other.

In your place I would expect a foal soon, but wouldn't be surprised if I still had to wait days!
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Not much help am I??
 
Do mini mares typically get milk in right before they foal like most full sized horses do?
My answer to that question is no. I've been foaling out miniature mares since the early 90's and most (i'd say 90 - 95% of the mares I've foaled), do not get white milk before foaling. Generally, their colostrum is amber or honey colored and very thick and sticky just before foaling.

As to whether your mare is ready to foal soon, is anybody's guess. Of the very few mares I've had who's milk turned white, foaled within 24 hours. Of course, they also had all the other signs. Full, tight udder, waxing, etc.
 
This is the mini mare that is getting her milk in. Excuse the muddy paddocks, we have had a lot of rain lately. It is not a very flattering picture of her but to me she is still nice and round in the belly, and although she has a bit more concaving in the the flank area then days past, it is not extreme.

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One mare we had foaled within hours of developing 'milk'. I would be watching her like a hawk.

Most of mine do not even develop it prior to foaling. Can you check the ph and Calcium? One part 'milk or colostrum' to three parts distilled water for pool test strips (you don't need alot- just do the ratio, no matter what the amt of milk you have).
 
One mare we had foaled within hours of developing 'milk'. I would be watching her like a hawk.

Most of mine do not even develop it prior to foaling. Can you check the ph and Calcium? One part 'milk or colostrum' to three parts distilled water for pool test strips (you don't need alot- just do the ratio, no matter what the amt of milk you have).
I can only get small drips out. That is what is weird and it is definitely skim milk colored where yesterday and past it was clear. Usually when my full sized horses turn this color, they have large udders and begin to wax. While her udder is developing well, her nipples are still pointing towards one another and have a ways to go in my opinion. I will try to collect in the morning when her udder is larger from being stalled for the night.
 
If you just vaccinated your mare (I think I understood that) please temp her immediately. If her temp is elevated I would try to get it down. Elevated temp for any length of time is not good for the unborn foal. I don't mean to be an alarmist and I certainly don't want to upset you, but in my experience this could be very important. The mare acting depressed and not eating could be due to vaccination.

I hope you soon have 2 live healthy foals!
 
If there is one "normal" thing about these little mares, it's that there is no normal LOL. I've had them foal with almost no signs, and I've had mares bag up & drip milk for a week before foaling. We have had live, healthy foals from about 305 days to almost 365. Most of mine seem to get a good bag and have some milk prior to foaling, and I'd say our average is about 325 days. I agree with Charlotte, I wouldn't hesitate to give a little banamine if you think there is some distress from vaccines.

Good luck, just hang in there and keep watching... no shortcuts for this.
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Jan
 
Good morning and thank you all for the support and advise. I did temp yesterday and they were fine. I gave the girls a good grooming yesterday and then belly clipped them (my daughter is supposed to be doing all this, but she was riding her jumper and well, I love to groom on them
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). Both mommy-to-bes bellies were doing major dancing and kick boxing while the clippers were on the belly. It was rather entertaining I have to say, I am not sure Lexi and Fancy would agree though. Now this morning, Lexi, the one that had milk & in the picture I posted, I can barely express anything from her udder, but her udder as a whole is beginning to get darker, although I feel her udder still has a lot of filling to do. The other mare Fancy that is actually due one day before Lexi, is catching up fast. Her udder is filling a lot faster speed now and physically looks a lot closer to foaling as she is more concaved in the flanks and her hip area and her vulva is more relaxed and elongated. These mare two completely different built mares though and Fancy is taller and more refined and does not carry the plumpness that Lexi does through the backbone and hip. Fancy has also foaled before I know for a fact where as Lexi may be a maiden.

Again, thanks for baring with me through this second year of attempting to become mini foal breeders. These little ones sure make me appreciate my quarter horse broodmares though.
 
Sandy, I hope you will add your mares to our MareStare/Foaling forum here on LB. We have lots of watchers with lots of experience who are more than happy to share with you and answer questions you may have. We LOVE pictures, and even if your girls are not on "cam" -- we'd love to see them and walk through their pregnancies with you. And as to getting milk, we've had mares this year on the forum that we have been watching for weeks as they fill their bags. So, to me, looking at the pictures and your description of her udder, I would not think foaling is imminent, but rather she is filling normally, and could even take a week or more to be full. These girls can change in an instant, but as you said, she's still nice and round in the belly, baby doesn't look like its "dropped" into position, there is no "V" shape at all -- just her nice round belly. Perhaps, as you said, she's a bit off from her shots. Hope you will come join us!! We LOVE pictures and would love to see more of your girls as pregnancies progress!! We've had lots of babies born under "watchful" eyes -- definitely a place Gracie might like to watch with us!
I can't get on Mare Stare because we do not have high speed internet. I have to use a wireless card and we can not be online with it all the time, it costs a fortune. I did not know that I could be on the forum with just pictures though. Now that I know that, I will for sure jump on over. Today is a sunny day and I will get pictures of the two girls' various flattering parts and come on over. Thanks for the notice!!!
 
I agree- there is NO normal. My aged mares have all now had several foals. Every pregnancy has been different. Sometimes they had huge bellies, a couple of times no belly at all. One has waxed- once- never did again. The Minis seem to have no 'rules' - or their rule really is that they refuse to follow the 'rules', LOL

I dont have typical high speed either and run on a wireless card... so no mare stare for me either but I run a camera at home- just not connected thru the internet- just a camera to my tv as a monitor
 
I can't get on Mare Stare because we do not have high speed internet. I have to use a wireless card and we can not be online with it all the time, it costs a fortune. I did not know that I could be on the forum with just pictures though. Now that I know that, I will for sure jump on over. Today is a sunny day and I will get pictures of the two girls' various flattering parts and come on over. Thanks for the notice!!!
Ditto what Diane said. Anyone with a baby on board is welcome on board. Open arms and good advise await you.
 
I've heard every mare,every labor is different and some are so similar an owner can know right when a mare will foal. I've also heard some mares bag up after birth. I'm not much help in this department, but I'm thinking of you and your mares.

Sounds like there is no 'what to expect when your exoecting' in the mini world :p
 
I agree- there is NO normal.
THIS ^.

In 20 years, I have never had a mini mare wax up like the book says she should. Actually, I have only had a few big mares wax up out of all the ones I have foaled out over the years. Some mares bag up early. Some do not get a bag or bring the milk down until they are actually foaling.

In other words, the answer to all foaling questions is... maybe. Big mares and mini mares both.

As per my siggy - and it is worth repeating twice - the most predictable thing about a mare is her unpredictability.
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I had one mini mare foal on day 312 for 3 foals in a row. So I expected her to foal on day 312 again (forgetting the predictability rule). She pulled a fast one on me and foaled on day 330 in the middle of the morning with no warning, no bag ahead of time - nothing!
 
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THIS ^.

In 20 years, I have never had a mini mare wax up like the book says she should. Actually, I have only had a few big mares wax up out of all the ones I have foaled out over the years. Some mares bag up early. Some do not get a bag or bring the milk down until they are actually foaling.

In other words, the answer to all foaling questions is... maybe. Big mares and mini mares both.

As per my siggy - and it is worth repeating twice - the most predictable thing about a mare is her unpredictability.
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I had one mini mare foal on day 312 for 3 foals in a row. So I expected her to foal on day 312 again (forgetting the predictability rule). She pulled a fast one on me and foaled on day 330 in the middle of the morning with no warning, no bag ahead of time - nothing!
I have yet to have a big mare wax big time like some people talk about and I would say about 50% actually do wax. For the most part I can always count on them getting their milk in before they foal, some 12 hours before and others a few days. I am learning these minis like to make fun of us and do what they want and your sig is right on!!
 

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