Starting a Pair

[Krazee bout Kasspur]

Are there training procedures one can do to produce a driving team when one mini is already trained to drive? Prior to purchasing a 4-wheel buggy, of course

. I have a stud and a mare that are together constantly and when I lead them out to graze, I hold both leads in one hand and they look so cute huddled together in a synchronized walk. The stud is well trained to drive.

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Jill]

I'm not an expert, at all, but I'd start with having the one who doesn't already know how to drive trained to drive as a single before working on pair driving.

Good luck, be safe and have fun!

 

[nbark]

I also have one that is trained and another that needs to be trained. The first thing I did was put them in the round pen together and watched what they did. They ran together side by side, which tells me that they will be good together. I also spoke to my driving trainer who said the best way is "monkey see monkey do"....start by lunging the beginner in a little bridle with a bit..if this has already been done, then progress to putting on a training surcingle and using the reins to drive her from behind. Then progress to a closed bridle. When that is done, hook them together and ground drive them, with someone heading them for safety..while doing this if you can make different sounds behind them (my trainer always grabbed the round pen and shook it as he walked past it to give them sounds that they could hear but not see). The trained mini will keep the untrained one sane when noises appear.....when you feel that they are both comfortable and ready, you can add the cart and ground drive them from behind the cart before progressing into the cart (always have an assistant for emergencies). Hope this has given you some info, but you will get much more, just take what you think is good for your situation and adapt it to fit your needs, no matter what advice you get.. and good luck.

 

[Krazee bout Kasspur]

Another question:

"hook them together and ground drive them"

What is the proper way and what equipment is needed to do this?

Great advice... Thank you both!!!

Lori

 

[disneyhorse]

Another question:
"hook them together and ground drive them"

What is the proper way and what equipment is needed to do this?

Great advice... Thank you both!!!

Lori

Hey Lori... I suggest finding someone with an experienced pair, and learn to hook and drive them. That way you understand the process and goals for your green horses. It is a very complex process that is best not described over the Internet, for your safety and your horses' (and possibly others around you

)

Andrea

 

[nbark]

Another question:
"hook them together and ground drive them"

What is the proper way and what equipment is needed to do this?

Great advice... Thank you both!!!

Lori

Hey Lori... I suggest finding someone with an experienced pair, and learn to hook and drive them. That way you understand the process and goals for your green horses. It is a very complex process that is best not described over the Internet, for your safety and your horses' (and possibly others around you

)

Andrea

Well put Andrea, couldn't agree more

 

[Krazee bout Kasspur]

Never mind then...I found a great blog that explains it all in great detail.

 

[Jill]

Just be careful, as Andrea has stressed. It's one thing to read about something and another thing to really know how to do it or how to anticipate and best handle all the possible reactions from the horse.

There are too many people doling out advice online when 90% of their "experience" has come from reading vs. doing. Some of those people need some different horses to work with and to really teach them all they think they learned from reading books and looking at harnessing charts.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Just be careful, as Andrea has stressed. It's one thing to read about something and another thing to really know how to do it or how to anticipate and best handle all the possible reactions from the horse.
There are too many people doling out advice online when 90% of their "experience" has come from reading vs. doing. Some of those people need some different horses to work with and to really teach them all they think they learned from reading books and looking at harnessing charts.

Also very well said Jill. I couldn't agree more with what Jill and Andrea have posted. There are so many things that can go wrong with a beginner hitching a single horse and that double's when hitching a team. Learning to train and drive from a forum or video cannot possibly teach you how to react in event of trouble and you are likely to get yourself or your horses injured - you don't want that!

You have taken the correct first step - read and learn all you can BUT when it comes time to put it into practice find someone knowledgeable to give you a hand.

 

[RhineStone]

We don't have a pair right now (all our horses are different sized/gaited), but when we did, I was "surprized" that the gelding that was so much the driver's "partner" as a single was suddenly the other horse's partner, and the driver was the "3rd wheel"! They worked fine together (we took them to the Midwest Horse Fair one year and my sister was photographed with the pair and interviewed for an article in Western Horseman magazine!), but it was definitely different (mentally) than driving a single.

 

[Krazee bout Kasspur]

Just be careful, as Andrea has stressed. It's one thing to read about something and another thing to really know how to do it or how to anticipate and best handle all the possible reactions from the horse.
There are too many people doling out advice online when 90% of their "experience" has come from reading vs. doing. Some of those people need some different horses to work with and to really teach them all they think they learned from reading books and looking at harnessing charts.

Also very well said Jill. I couldn't agree more with what Jill and Andrea have posted. There are so many things that can go wrong with a beginner hitching a single horse and that double's when hitching a team. Learning to train and drive from a forum or video cannot possibly teach you how to react in event of trouble and you are likely to get yourself or your horses injured - you don't want that!

You have taken the correct first step - read and learn all you can BUT when it comes time to put it into practice find someone knowledgeable to give you a hand.

Of course it's common sense to find an instructor/trainer to achieve the ultimate goal. Trainers often have different methods which may or may not be safe to begin with. Who's to say for sure?

The description of the driving forum says that it is a place to ask questions pertaining to such. I don't think I'll bother to anymore.

 

[Jill]

I'm sorry you've taken offense, but good advice has been offered and by people who have had driving horses for many years. We've heard and seen some very bad situations that began with the best intentions. We also know there are some "online" gurus who are only so "online".

 

[MiLo Minis]

Just be careful, as Andrea has stressed. It's one thing to read about something and another thing to really know how to do it or how to anticipate and best handle all the possible reactions from the horse.
There are too many people doling out advice online when 90% of their "experience" has come from reading vs. doing. Some of those people need some different horses to work with and to really teach them all they think they learned from reading books and looking at harnessing charts.

Also very well said Jill. I couldn't agree more with what Jill and Andrea have posted. There are so many things that can go wrong with a beginner hitching a single horse and that double's when hitching a team. Learning to train and drive from a forum or video cannot possibly teach you how to react in event of trouble and you are likely to get yourself or your horses injured - you don't want that!

You have taken the correct first step - read and learn all you can BUT when it comes time to put it into practice find someone knowledgeable to give you a hand.

Of course it's common sense to find an instructor/trainer to achieve the ultimate goal. Trainers often have different methods which may or may not be safe to begin with. Who's to say for sure?

The description of the driving forum says that it is a place to ask questions pertaining to such. I don't think I'll bother to anymore.

I too am very sorry you have taken offense but this forum is not intended to teach you how to train your horse - no forum can possibly do that! Yes of course it is a good place to get answers to specific questions regarding training BUT you really can't learn to train just by asking questions and you need to sift carefully the answers you get from any source other than your own experience. My intention was to prevent you or your horses or both from being injured just as Jill and Andrea were.

When you are looking for a trainer or more experienced person to help you, you need to ask plenty of questions and talk to them first to get a feel for how knowledgeable they are and how well their handling of horses matches your own ideas of how they should be handled. You can ask for references and follow through on them, talk to others they have worked for. Go and visit their training facilities - does it look to be a safe and healthy place to send your horse/s? Are the horses there healthy and happy? Whenever you are working with horses there is a certain amount of risk involved both to you and the horse but there are things you can do to minimize the risks and this is one of them. Getting help to start a team if you have no experience that way is also a way to minimize risk - I certainly got help the first time I did and the second time......

 

[Jill]

Another thing to point out, for others even if the OP is not longer following, is that people just starting into driving minis might GREATLY underestimate the strength of a mini. If your mini is spooked, there is no way on earth you can hold the horse back, even with a bit in its mouth. Even with your feet on the ground, really. Too many people think "oh, they're just small" and don't realize they're far stronger than a person and are to be treated with every bit as much respect, time and care as would be taken to train a full size horse to drive.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I'm a bit surprised at the direction this thread took after the first few posts. Of course you can't learn to drive from a forum, but it always boggles me when the only response people get to "Theoretically, how do I..." is "Go find a trainer, it would be irresponsible of me to dole out any knowledge." If they HAD a trainer or knew how to recognize a good one, they probably wouldn't be asking the question in the first place!

There are so many wacko "horse trainers" out there it scares the living bejeebies out of me. At least on here the person can pick through the advice they receive without putting their horses at the mercy of the only yahoo who happens to live in their area and maybe pick up some tips that would help them recognize a good trainer or learn how to find one. MiLo had some useful advice on things to ask someone you're interested in and I thoroughly agree with her.

That said, pair driving can be a lot of fun but is made even more fun by knowing your horses are properly aducated and ready for it. I know draft drivers will often start a pair by putting a green horse with an experienced buddy but I'm one of those who thinks it's better if each horse knows his job before he's asked to add the additional complication of a pole, coupling reins, and a heavier load. I'd start the greenie individually and when she's solid on all her gaits, voice commands, standing quietly, pulling, and maneuvering a cart you can try putting her with her stallion friend.

There are too many people doling out advice online when 90% of their "experience" has come from reading vs. doing. Some of those people need some different horses to work with and to really teach them all they think they learned from reading books and looking at harnessing charts.

That is true, but on the other hand there are lots of so-called "trainers" who turn out dozens of horses a year but never take the time to read and educate themselves or take any horse further than "get between the shafts and don't freak out."

A well-rounded horseman worth listening to educates himself from as many sources as possible, tries what seems reasonable to him, and refines his training based on what works for him and his horses. That may mean books, online mentors, in person mentors, clinicians...any source of knowledge is valuable if the information is good!

Leia

Edited for better phrasing

 

[MiLo Minis]

...any source of knowledge is valuable if the information is good!
Leia

I am all for everyone learning whatever they can from wherever they can about anything they are interested in BUT the big problem with something as dangerous as driving can be is that if you don't know anything how do you know "if the information is good"?

For someone who has little or no experience with driving a team learning how to do it from a forum is extremely dangerous and very difficult. The best piece of advice to give her was find a mentor/trainer/knowledgeable friend to give her a hand. We can give her all kinds of advice on here and have no clue if she actually understands or comprehends what we are saying. Will she go and work with her horse correctly or will she get herself and her horse injured because she really didn't understand what she was being told was the right way to go about it. And I am not in any way implying this poster is stupid or any poster is stupid. We all know how things written on the forum can easily be misconstrued. When all it involves is someone's feelings being hurt when such was not intended that is one thing but when someone could possibly die because of it that is another thing entirely.

 

[Jill]

I thought this conversation was finished quite awhile ago.

There are too many people doling out advice online when 90% of their "experience" has come from reading vs. doing. Some of those people need some different horses to work with and to really teach them all they think they learned from reading books and looking at harnessing charts.

That is true, but on the other hand there are lots of so-called "trainers" who turn out dozens of horses a year but never take the time to read and educate themselves or take any horse further than "get between the shafts and don't freak out."

A well-rounded horseman worth listening to educates himself from as many sources as possible, tries what seems reasonable to him, and refines his training based on what works for him and his horses. That may mean books, online mentors, in person mentors, clinicians...any source of knowledge is valuable if the information is good!

Leia

My point is simply that there are a whole lot of people who are gurus online but not any place else. It's dangerous when people turn to them for advice in good faith but don't realize maybe he/she has only owned a couple horses, only driven a few horses, etc. Books are great. I've learned a lot from them, too. However, when it comes to horses, a library of books isn't going to tell you very much of what you need to really know in terms of riding or driving and especially not when it comes to training for riding or driving. That insight comes from years of experience with many different horses and it's not something that can be imparted to another over the internet.

When all it involves is someone's feelings being hurt when such was not intended that is one thing but when someone could possibly die because of it that is another thing entirely.

Right on, Lori!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

You both make good points, and I agree finding a knowledgeable trainer is the best piece of advice we can give. But when we won't offer even basic safety guidelines or things to watch for, people will look other places. Like blogs. What I'm afraid of is that stonewalling someone doesn't make them go do it the smart way, it makes them feel miffed and try to do it themselves without guidance. Even scarier!

I'm not saying the original poster was miffed, blogs are bad, or that anyone here stonewalled or tried to be unhelpful.

I'm saying it can look that way sometimes to a newbie and I've seen bad things happen from that too. I think both viewpoints have merit and we are each free to choose to say something or not on each post. I'm sure the OP was glad for the responses she got and I hope she will find local help so she can enjoy her horses even more.

Jill, I do apologize for bringing up an old thread but as you know I've been away. Just catching up....

Leia

 

[susanne]

Just as an FYI, the blog the OP is referring to is petArtistWithPeaches horse blog portraitswithhorses.com/blog/ (I've neutered the link, but if this gets removed, feel free to contact me.)

I've read this blog for some time. Connie Moses, the blogger, does not claim to be a professional trainer, and in fact has disclaimers to that effect. Her responses to Lori have urged caution, and her discussions of working with her own full-sized horses are thoughtful and respectful of the animals.

Not being a trainer myself, I'm not qualified to voice an opinion on her experience or approach. It's certainly possible that you may not like what she says, but I would not consider her a dangerous web blowhard. From what I've read, I don't believe she would ever suggest that one can learn to start a driving strictly from reading what's on the internet.

 

[Krazee bout Kasspur]

"For someone who has little or no experience with driving a team learning how to do it from a forum is extremely dangerous and very difficult. The best piece of advice to give her was find a mentor/trainer/knowledgeable friend to give her a hand. We can give her all kinds of advice on here and have no clue if she actually understands or comprehends what we are saying. Will she go and work with her horse correctly or will she get herself and her horse injured because she really didn't understand what she was being told was the right way to go about it. And I am not in any way implying this poster is stupid or any poster is stupid. We all know how things written on the forum can easily be misconstrued. When all it involves is someone's feelings being hurt when such was not intended that is one thing but when someone could possibly die because of it that is another thing entirely."

The assumption that I am a beginner with driving is incorrect. I'm not "miffed" or have "hurt feelings". I'm not asking anyone to "train my horse for me". I was simply trying to start a thread regarding ground driving a pair and someone decided to kill it after it got started. Why just kill it if you're not knowledgeable with the topic to begin with? I see plenty of other threads here in the driving section where training advice is given readily. What if THAT person doesn't "understand or comprehend what is being said and gets his/herself and his/herself horse injured because he/she really didn't understand what THEY were being told was the right way to go about it."??? Why give advice then and not tell them to find a trainer when "someone could possibly die"? I've been PM'd by several individuals that are experienced regarding my thread question and they've indicated they don't dare post here.

Also, if it's such a taboo subject, then what is the point of posting Connie's pairs ground driving blog info, and the discussions she and I have, on this board?