spot and peanut

[dixie_belle]

Yesterday did not go well. I had peanut(the new guy) on the other side of the fence from spot. i was hoping they would get acquainted thru the fence. each time i put them together, spot attacked. he is actually quite vicious. each time i would go in and remove peanut and put him back on the other side of the fence. well, this went on all day. this morning was not much better.

so here's the new plan. i will put them together. if i remove peanut, then spot has won the game. this is a game i do not wish to play. so i will put them together and plant myself out there. each time spot attacks, i will grab him by the halter, fuss at him loudly and strongly, and put him in the stall for 30 minutes. he will soon associate chasing peanut with time out.

geez. this is so stressful. i don't get it at all. you would think they would be happy for a new playmate but noooooooooo. i'm really afraid spot is going to hurt the little guy.

how long is this gonna take?

my nerves can't take this!!

 

[hylights]

Hi,

My thoughts are that you haven't given it enough time for them to get aquainted with a fence between them.

It takes as long as it takes, this is different with different horses. My mare came here having lived without seeing another horse for 7 years, I kept a fence or a stall wall between them until they showed me they were ready by their actions, for her to become comfortable was 1 month. Today they are side by side eating hay, it's been 2 months. A mini I had before her was living with other horses and he was ready to be together with my older horse the same day. How to know they are ready? when one doesn't want to chase down and bite the other, when the new horse isn't showing defensive posturing.

My old gelding has always been a push over with other horses, ( i have even put him with my weanling Appy when he came here and he let a weanling push him around)but when this mare came here I saw a side of him I had never seen, he came at her teeth bared going for flesh!( there was a fence between them, I was walking her past him to go into the barn!) I was appalled! But it was because she was so defensive in her body language and he saw it (before I did actually) but as they became aquainted with a fence or stall wall between them they wanted to be together, 2 weeks after she came home I watched him wander off into the pasture away from her, she whinnied and he came racing back, they spent the day close to each other. It was still 2 weeks before I put them together and even then I only did it while I was outside and for an hour at a time.

I don't think it would be a good idea to just let them have at it, I think they are telling you they need more time, please think in terms of weeks and not hours or days of having a fence between them and if it happens sooner it's icing.

I think that your two geldings are a herd and the Spot doesn't want his herd broken up, he needs to know that Peanut will take orders from him before he can be allowed to join the "herd"

Good luck,

Peanut sounds like a cutie

Amy

 

[Magic]

I agree with Amy, I think that you are going to have to give them a LOT more time to get to know each other with a safe fence between them before you can let them be together. Otherwise someone is going to get hurt.

 

[SkipsMom]

Not sure what type of dry lot, paddock or pasture your putting them in but I'll offer put out 4 flakes of hay apart, in various places in the pen, away from the fence and out of the corners. Sometimes having something to munch on, besides each other, can help after the initial introductions.

 

[Marty]

I understand your dilemna but your plan is not going to work.



so here's the new plan. i will put them together. if i remove peanut, then spot has won the game. this is a game i do not wish to play. so i will put them together and plant myself out there. each time spot attacks, i will grab him by the halter, fuss at him loudly and strongly, and put him in the stall for 30 minutes. he will soon associate chasing peanut with time out.

You are correct; this is not a game and Spot is not going to understand this time out thing of yours.

They are not dogs and will not respond like dogs. Their minds simply do not work that way. You can stand out there all day and all night for a year and direct traffic and run interference but it is not going to work like that. Spots hormones, his drive, his dominance, his territorialism will all over ride your time out theory.

You will never be able to force them to get along; Spot has to do this on his own when he is good and ready. And they may not ever get along. Spot is obviously dominant and is not backing down. He may never back down and do some very serious damage to Peanut the first time to turn your head. It is simply not worth getting them hurt or worse.

Why do they have to be together anyhow?

I don't see the point.

Leave them separated and be done with it. Nobody gets hurt. Everyone is happy.

 

[mininik]

Please don't force the issue. These are horses, not dogs, and they will not (read: cannot) associate your scolding or time outs with their natural behavior, especially when you are not around. Continue letting them live in adjoining pastures and work them together if possible, but there's no need to risk their safety for your dream of having a little herd. I wouldn't even recommend supervised visits for now unless they are in a working situation, such as being lunged in a roundpen. Maybe someday they'll sort it out, but why stress over something that really isn't important or necessary, and is inherently dangerous?

 

[dixie_belle]

It isn't that I am enamored of the thought of having one big horsey family. It is more a lack of space and facilities. I am on two acres. Total. There is no more land available anywhere near us to buy. Moving is out as we owe on two homes (don't ask) and have been paying two mortgages for 5 years now. We are out of money.

I have about 3/4 of an acre fenced for the boys. It is, for all practical purposes, a dry lot. I have one stall, one feeder, one loafing shed. There is no room for any more. Period.

So due to the lack of room, it is necessary for all three to live in the same enclosure. Oh sure, I can have the new guy in my back yard for a couple of weeks, but I really do not want my back yard to be dirt like where the horses are. I mean, I will make sacrifies but I do not want to have nothing but dirt everywhere.

So, they MUST learn to be together. I will keep them apart as long as necessary, but eventually, they must learn to not kill one another. If they cannot, then one of them must go.

Period.

It's as simple as that.

If I had unlimited land, that would be different. But I don't.

 

[Fred]

Split your paddock you have more than enough room. I live on an acre and I have eight minis and one shetland. Each paddock has a small run in to fit who is out in it. We also have 3 barns and each horse has their own individual stall. There are many ways to adapt shelters as the three barns we have originated from the two run-ins we had from the big horses. They ALL have enough room and some are fenced off from the others as they are too dominant. If you have 2 acres you have plenty of room to do this and give them enough running room. On this one acre I also have a round pen and a 60x120 foot driving ring and plenty of lawn to mow to boot. We did this at very low cost but with a lot of hard work and ingenuity, so it is possible to do.

 

[mininik]

I agree, you have more than enough room to make more pastures. Hot tape is cheap and buying a couple tubs for feed and water won't take much. It's all much less spendy than a vet bill should any of your horses get injured!

 

[Reble]

Ok a few little helpful tips.

If you can bath the new horse to get rid of his other smells.

Than brush Spot and take his hairs and rub all over the new horse or a towel.

If you have a grazing muzzle can also help so he cannot bite to hurt.

Can try a line on Spot with only supervision praise him when he is good and work him make him run when not behaving. Get them both to work together in a area, so they learn to work together instead of worrying who is boss, and realize you are the only boss here.

Just some suggestions that might help

Good Luck as others have said might take a little longer

 

[skanzler]

I would agree with everyone on this subject. You can not MAKE a dominant horse stop his actions towards another by time outs our by punishing him for his behavior. You will need to make accomodations for him, not he for you.

You have enough property to own these horses and will need to make the changes suggested. Make individual areas for each horse. This way you will be able to enjoy each horse, without having to stress whether they will be able to get along.

We have individual pastures for our horses. We will rotate individuals if possible, but if a horse does not get along with the others in the group it is moved to another herd. There will always be an initial scrap or two, until the pecking order is established. But soon everyone settles in. If you try to keep them in too small an enclosure/pasture/paddock. One that they can not have "safe space", you are asking for trouble.

Good luck with your kids. Hopefully you will be able to build what they need to stay safe.

 

[Marty]

If they cannot, then one of them must go.

Period.

It's as simple as that.

Well actually you said it in a nutshell. Not trying to be harsh; I realize you are new at this and this is just one of those things that you learned about horses the hard way. It happens to all of us. We are not mind readers and we never know what is going to happen next where horses are concerend. When you take on horses you take on having to provide additionally for their needs no matter what they are. It certainly is not fair for that little yearling to be tormented by Spot. We have had these things happen in the past and found ourselves having to run out and buy additional fencing and build more shelters fast so I do understand when you are under the gun like this. I feel sorry for the little guy, but I also know that Spot has been a very good horse for you and Lily to have so you are faced with a hard decision if you cannot make another turn out and shelter area work. I wish you all the best of luck and take care.