So sick of judges and politics..

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hidden jewel

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I know it's something that probably will never go away with any type of horse shows..but it's so wrong. Even if there is a judge that is new to a registry or whatever (as here it is AMHA) mid way through the show, they figure out who the "big time breeders/trainers" are. Not meaning their horses are the best. so sad.
 

nootka

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I have seen what you're describing and inevitably, it is usually a judge that is pretty familar w/a certain trainer. I think in some cases, that horse would have won anyway, but in others, they may give them the edge here and there and it does stink.

I guess that is why I enjoy AOTE so much, because usually the trainers are completely out of the picture, then.

I doubt it will ever go away and while it does bug me, it does not outweigh the enjoyment I get out of showing.

Liz M.
 

RebelsHope

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It happens with any showing I fear. Be it dogs or horses etc. It guess it is one of those.... well what can you do things.
 
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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While I have seen it on some extent I have to say most of the time horses that place deserve to it is a much different view from the rail then inside looking at a horse in a moment and time when he may or may not be set up and cooperative compared to the next minute once the judge walks away (that seems to be my horses best moments when the judges arent looking
)

I try to not get to caught up in the "politics" crying and just learn every time I go in the ring and watch the top handlers who know the tricks of the trade and can make there horses look amazing and enjoy it for that
 

runamuk

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It is something that happens to some small extent in all species.......yes even in rabbits we had the occasional judge who was a bit to friendly with a particular exhibitor
....no biggie there is always next time
we did a 2 judge show once and under the first judge my sons rabbit got a best of breed and the second judge not only tossed the rabbit off the table but in her expanation she said the rabbit couldn't possibly be long for this world ( we had a fun convo with her after the show
she actually was an excellent judge) but that shows how different one opinion can be from another with less than a 12 hour period
 

RebelsHope

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Funny thing about politics is it isn't limited just to a show ring, it happens in clubs, work places, even message boards seem to very political.
 

Neil

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RebelsHope said:
, even message boards seem to very political.
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You couldn't possibly mean this one would you............

 

Neil

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hidden jewel said:
I know it's something that probably will never go away with any type of horse shows..but it's so wrong. Even if there is a judge that is new to a registry or whatever (as here it is AMHA) mid way through the show, they figure out who the "big time breeders/trainers" are. Not meaning their horses are the best. so sad. 

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Is it possible that maybe they have some of the best horses in the classes?
 

nootka

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It is true that many times the trainer is handling the best horse in the class, but what I notice is that towards the later part of the show, the judge does not spend the time looking that they might normally consider the horse because they have already picked the winner, and to me that is not fair. I don't see it all the time, but I have noticed it, and the solicitous smiles of some judges when they are handing out those neck ribbons/major awards to their "pets" it gets a little grating.

I try not to let it bother me a lot, either, and like I said, I still enjoy showing. Also Lisa put it well, just go in the ring and watch and learn.

Liz M.
 

Chandler@RoyalPalm

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Would it be a horse show without the judges?
This may sound stupid to some, but its part of the glue that keeps showing going and the pursuit to perfection....
 

shminifancier

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When I was told that if 2 horses now this is full sized ones under saddle If 2 Horses are Identical in EVERY way cannot fault one at all the One that has the most Silver on the animal Wins~!!! In other words if you can afford a Real expensive Saddle on a very good horse~! You will WIN~! And I was Told that by a Very well known JUDGE~! That spoiled it for me from then on in showing and this Politics that goes on~! Arrrrggg
 

Neil

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nootka said:
I try not to let it bother me a lot, either, and like I said, I still enjoy showing.  Also Lisa put it well, just go in the ring and watch and learn.
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I totally agree with what Liz and Lisa say.

I may look like I am just standing around or bs'ing before my class but I check out all of my competition before I go in the ring. I highly recommend watching and learning.
 

justanothercowgirl

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My family has shown horses for many, many years and miniatures most recently. There has been and always will be some politics in the showring. However, I feel there are really only a few bad apples as there are in anything else. There are so many judges that are good, honest folks who love the horses as much as the rest of us that go out into the showring with the intent of doing their job to the best of their ability.

I have to say that it is impossible to be in the industry and not know who the big name trainers are. If I am standing outside of the ring watching and I see Belinda Bagby(hope you don't mind Belinda) out there showing a horse, I have a pretty good idea that it is going to be a darn good one!! She has put in the years of hard work to be a top name who shows top horses. So is it politics if she wins that class??? Maybe she even knows the judge, chances are good that she may but that certainly doesn't mean that the judge is doing anything political if they place Belinda's horse first. It more than likely means she has a gorgeous horse out there that deserves top honours! I only used Belinda as an example as I happen to love the type of horses that she shows and the way she turns them out! The big name trainers give me something to aspire to when I take my horses into the showring!!!

I think that a judge should take the time to give each horse in the ring equal consideration before making a decision on placings. However, as the show continues on and the same horses appear in other classes it may not be necessary to spend as much time evaluating that particular horse. If a horse is way out of it's league the judge may take a little less time looking at it but to me that does not speak of politics but simply that the judge knows their horses and can quickly sort the best out of the bunch.

At one time or another if you around the showring for any length of time you will come across a decision that most certainly reeks of politics. Unfortunately, as long as judges are mere humans there will be times when some are unfair and biased. In my opinion, there are plenty of good honest judges doing a fair job!!
 
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nootka

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However, I feel there are really only a few bad apples as there are in anything else.
justanothercowgirl is right.

While I acknowledge that "politics" happens in the ring (and out of), I also believe it to be fairly rare.

What happens is that certain things are perceived to be resulting of these same examples of favoritism, etc., and then attributed to same, thereby boosting the reputation/bad press.

I think it would be a difficult job to be a judge, and I think most of them do a darn good job.

No, it would not be a horse show w/out judges, and it would get old pretty quickly to go and show our horses off for an "awww, they are all so cute" and that was it. We are competitive, and this is part of the price.

I think if you truly have a valid complaint about a particular judge, you should be able to file that complaint w/the breed organization or club that hired them in the first place for that show(s).

Beyond that, it is an opinion (the judges') and move on to the next show/class, and it will be different.

Liz M.
 

js1arab

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Well, I feel that more times than not the pros have good horses. They can only fill so many spots in the barn and they want what's gonna get them noticed so they can fill those spots next year as well. I feel there is some degree of politics, but it really doesn't do any good to complain, just work harder. But all that being said, I had to laugh (and no offense intended here Nootka) at Nootka's post on Ammy classes. My second ever mini show was Nationals eons ago. We only went because it was close then and I was so used to the prices Arab shows charged that mini Nationals seemed cheap. Anyway. I hadn't been "into" minis all that long, but I did know some of the bigger farm names around the midwest. As I was going into the class, I told my hubby who was going to win before we ever entered the ring. Several big farms had ammys in the class with horses shown by the pros earlier and they also had their grooming buckets which conviently were being set on the ring wall as the horses entered with the farm names blazened all over.
You don't see that so much these days, well I haven't been to a national in years, but at the lower levels anyway. But I did find it amusing and slightly annoying back then. But nowadays I realize that I am who and what I am, I have what I have and hopefully nothing will change that. If the judge like my horse great, if not, as long as I can afford to have fun then all the ribbons in the world won't change how I feel about showing cause for me, I'm only showing against myself. Did we do our best, groom our best, learn something new and help as many friends as we could that day. If the answer was yes, then it was a very good day.
 

hidden jewel

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I agree totally with you js1arab. Mos tof all you do compete with yourself. All that really matters is that you know your horse is awesome and that's what matters the most. It just gets a little frustrating sometimes with the judges but overall it's part of the Mini horse show biz!!
 

Ojai Minis

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Ah, the fun of horse showing
My husband thinks it's all BS and thinks anything that is not timed is all politcal but that's why he has no interest in showing


Now, me. I use to show on the Paint circuit here in CA, and showed as an amatuer but could not afford a trainer, (yes, the judges know who the amatuers train under too, )or the most expensive horse or the most expensive show clothes, saddles, etc. And I did witness LOTS of blatent political BS BUT I LOVED to show and each class was always a new challenge. And the best feeling was when we did our best and little ole amatuers like me beat the big ole TRAINERS in the open classes! Not one trainer but the whole class!!!

It all comes down to choice again.


Liz V.
 

minih

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Nevermind.
 
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Karen S

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Good Morning,

Just another slant in regards to Nootka post....

Are you upset because that horse was shown first in an "Open" class before any Amateur classes? If so, then lobby your shows and have them place your Amatuer classes BEFORE any open classes.

Our club, the ASPC/AMHR Club of North Texas does just that. We felt it gave the Amateur a better chance at placing before any trainer handles the horse. Yes, Belinda does have some beautiful fit miniatures (and shetlands as well). Yes, she has a handful of Amateur clients that show's in the Amateur division with those horses (those that the Amateur owns) she has on her show string, but with as much as she travels to well over 15 shows a year, she can show under 30+ judges in a show season, so most of your judges will have eventually "seen" her horses. Yes, they pay attention "outside" of the ring as well, for you must remember a lot of our judges also attend horse shows as exhibitors. With the Amateur exhibiting first it allows then the opportunity to show off what they know. Once the Amateur classes are over and your Open classes begin, then it's an open game for anyone (including Amateurs) to see how they place. I encourage any Amateur to step up to the plate and venture out beyond your safty net. How are you going to expand and grow if you don't compete against the trainers and see how you do. You just might be suprise to see, that yes you can beat them. I have.

I can give you a real good example with my own ponies. My daughter attended a show in the midwest this summer with two of our shetland mares. One of the Congress judges was stalled across the isle from her. She called me asking how to handle the situation...first told her it was alright to say hello, be friendly, but don't be overly friendly as it could be misconstrued as a bribe (hello... my horse is going to Congress... pick me...) from any one person that attended that show and attended Congress as well. Guess what? we didn't place any higher than some of the same trainers that were at the same show she was(just because the Congress judge was stalled near her). Yes we all have seen that some judges do pick what's on the end of a lead not paying attention to the horse itself...but....as a reminder....when we all come into the ring....we only have one chance at putting our best foot forward and to make an overall impression to the judges. If they don't like what they see while coming in most of the time they won't even give us a second glance (they should) but they won't. Your judges have already started marking down what they like in the lineup (especially if it's a rather large class) and then go down the line looking for those back numbers to re-evaluate those they have chosen. Somtimes they can change their mind if a particular horse catches their eye, but wasn't acting the way it should be. I have seen judges look across the arena looking back to see if that particular horse has settled down and sometimes once it does and shows for it's handler then that horse could very well end up winning the class.

Karen Shaw

Show Committee Chairman

ASPC/AMHR Club of N. Texas
 
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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nootka said:
It is true that many times the trainer is handling the best horse in the class, but what I notice is that towards the later part of the show, the judge does not spend the time looking that they might normally consider the horse because they have already picked the winner, and to me that is not fair.  I don't see it all the time, but I have noticed it, and the solicitous smiles of some judges when they are handing out those neck ribbons/major awards to their "pets" it gets a little grating.
I try not to let it bother me a lot, either, and like I said, I still enjoy showing.  Also Lisa put it well, just go in the ring and watch and learn.

Liz M.

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Sometimes though thtey have seen these horses before in previous classes lets face it most of the time it is the same horses showing in different classes so they have an idea of what and who they like horse wise as they are coming into the ring for the 4th time

Heck i am a show doofus and at a show I beat a trainers horse being shown in ammy and a well known breeder who i respect VERY MUCH beat one of them in ammy as well may have been only under one judge and may never happen again but let me tell you i was EXCITED and proud other then that well i try to remember it is just a horse show and judging is based on opinions and opinions are like feelings they really arent right or wrong they just are.. of course they dont have to make sense but doesnt make them right or wrong
 
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