should a stallion be bred from if it is UNDER 28 inches?

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shane

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hi, im just curious, because as part of a very educational news clipping that was very good in most parts there is a part that says

"ANYTHING UNDER 28 INCHES IN HEIGHT SHOULD NOT BE BRED FROM"

this worrys me as my stallion is only 1 inch away from this, so should i not breed from him?

we are talking about the withers here

this has came from a person that is running a miniature horse register, so apparently knows what they are talking about....what do you think?

are they talking about stallions ,or mares? im confused
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We bred out 26.5" stallion, and he gave us the most GORGEOUS colt this year! He's bred back to the same mare.

So, yeah- you can breed them!

Lucy
 
Since I can't read the entire 'article' I can't judge whether they are saying stallions under 28" or if they are refering to all horses under 28"

Our senior breeding stallion is 25 1/2" measured at the last hairs of the mane. He has sired a high percentage of World and National Top Ten foals. He is a Top Ten in two registries himself.

You can see him and some of his offspring on our web site. REFLECTIONS a miniature horse farm

You might also want to visit the SmallestHorse Group to see many lovely small horses used for breeding.SmallestHorse Group

Charlotte
 
I've bred several of them for YEARS. Smallest was 24.75" and we had special breeding stands for him to be able to serve the taller ones.
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The most important thing about the tiny ones is to be sure they are proportionately correct -- this may be why the person you "quote" says not to use the smaller ones, possibly they felt or knew only ones with dwarf characteristics????? Under 28" does NOT make them a dwarf. And, I have several under 28" mares who do a fine job, foal easily, etc.

Judge them as you would any breeding stallion -- conformation, temperament, and quality of foals produced.

I love the tiny ones
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I would say that the person who wrote the article is extremely uninformed and unexperienced with miniatures. Because you see it in print does not necessarily make it true! We have mares and stallions under 26" that have wonderful foals. The name of the horses is the American MINIATURE Horse.

Definition:

miniature

A noun

1 miniature, toy

copy that reproduces something in greatly reduced size

An adjective

1 miniature

being on a very small scale; "a miniature camera"
 
The most important thing about the tiny ones is to be sure they are proportionately correct -- this may be why the person you "quote" says not to use the smaller ones, possibly they felt or knew only ones with dwarf characteristics?????
Aye, there's the rub--in all fairness, we don't know exactly what the wording of the article is. Two sentences extracted from a paragraph can sound to have a totally different meaning than what the entire paragraph actually says.
Considering that this same question was posed by someone else in the middle of another thread a few days ago--that time people either missed it or just chose not to take the bait, or at least didn't take the bait before the thread got closed--and now it has cropped up again, well, I'd really like to see the article in full before I'd say much against it.

Tiny size alone isn't a reason to not breed the horse--just as tiny size shouldn't be the sole goal in a breeding program. Whatever the size of the horse, the correct conformation needs to be there.

Perhaps shane should contact the person in the article & ask for clarification? Going to the source is usually the best way to find out exactly what was meant. Sometimes the printed word comes out quite different than what was actually said in the interview!
 
Since I can't read the entire 'article' I can't judge whether they are saying stallions under 28" or if they are refering to all horses under 28"

Our senior breeding stallion is 25 1/2" measured at the last hairs of the mane. He has sired a high percentage of World and National Top Ten foals. He is a Top Ten in two registries himself.

You can see him and some of his offspring on our web site. REFLECTIONS a miniature horse farm

You might also want to visit the SmallestHorse Group to see many lovely small horses used for breeding.SmallestHorse Group

Charlotte
I just have to say, your stallion is one of the most gorgeous horses I have seen under 28". Maybe one day I will be able to buy a baby of his.. He is absoutely stunning!

I don't see why you wouldn't breed a stallion under 28" unless he was a dwarf/had dwarf characteristics.
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Edited for SPELLING.
 
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Like others have said, it is hard to comment when something is taken out of context.

However, to respond to the height issue, there are PLENTY of 34" horses and up that "shouldn't" be used for breeding. Height shouldn't be the issue, you should look at the whole package.
 
Perhaps there is a link available so we could read this for ourselves??

Personally, obviously, I have bred from stallions under 28" with very good results.

Although in principle I would agree that animals under a height should be looked at carefully I would say also that this was true of any animal, not just ones under a certain height.

I have bred from 28" (To the withers) mares but it is a lot more work, simply from the stress factor point of view and, obviously again, as we get smaller there will be more and more risk to the mare, just as there is in miniaturised dogs at the moment.

There is no risk that I can see for a properly managed stallion, however small.

I'm sorry Kate but I do not see this as inflammatory- it was stated at the beginning that the article was sound and well written but that this one point had worried Shane.

Without reading the article I would just assume that the writer was saying that animals under 28" are more likely to be dwarfs or have dwarf characteristics- which I suppose is very broadly true- and that mares under 28" would have more breeding problems- which I do find to be true and would not suggest that anyone with a tiny mare, and no experience of breeding, should start at that height!!
 
I have since spoken to both parties involved in this article and both have agreed this is a misquote. A correction will be printed in the same publication, to satisfy all concerned and avoid further confusion.

Kate
 
The article in the newpaper was written by a journalist who has no knowledge of minis, taken from notes made over the telephone to several people. The interviewee stated that horses under 28" should be carefully scrutinised for faults before breeding.
This explaination indicates a misquote does it not?
 
Well, I don't know anything about 'personal agendas', but I do think this is a good topic and the statement by threec just fits the subject perfectly IMO.

However, to respond to the height issue, there are PLENTY of 34" horses and up that "shouldn't" be used for breeding. Height shouldn't be the issue, you should look at the whole package.
The bottom line is it all comes down to conformation.......good or poor.

Charlotte
 
Hi Lynda

you seem to be getting a hard time from certain forum members :no:

i have the article, am i allowed to post it?

Joanne
 
thanks joanne,i dont see why not, sure its in the news paper anyway for all to see
 
hi this is the whole article

i rang them and asked them to email it to me.

there was also a photo of Thumbelina in it.

The Irish Field

Saturday October 21 2006

Size not important – apparently

By Nicholas O’Hare

There is growing concern among Irish Miniature horse enthusiasts about the official recognition as the world’s smallest horse of a 17-inch high mare foaled five years ago in St Louis, USA. The Guinness Book of Records has just recognised Thumbelina, who weighed eight pounds at birth and now weighs 60 pounds. The average miniature horse stands about 34 inches tall and weighs around 250 pounds.

Breeders are concerned that the highlighting of Thumbelina will encourage the pursuit of dwarfism in miniature horses. There are currently three officially recognised height levels; yearlings – 32 inches, two year olds – 33 inches, and three year olds and over – 34 inches. To offer breeders the opportunity of producing longer-legged stock, there is also a supplementary section which caters for the horses from 34 – 42 inches.

Lillian Graham of Glenhollow Stud, one of Ireland’s longest established breeders, says that dwarfism is a worrying feature of miniature horse production. “Most breeders euthanize these very small animals,†she said. “There are problems with horses which are too small, including shortness of leg, big heads, roach backs, pastern deformities and other shortcomings. It is important that people should not breed from these small animals. They are expected to exercise responsibility.â€

Kimberly Schurek of Slaneyrose Stud, who runs the Irish Miniature Horse Register, said the dwarfism was a particular problem in Ireland. “Any thing under 28 inches in height should not be bred from,†she said. “Breeders must be very careful. The miniature horse should be a perfect reproduction of a full sized quality horse.â€

She said that the register, which is currently seeking Department of Agriculture approval, was engaged in a drive to educate judges and breeders about the degenerative faults which could emerge if under-sized horses were produced. The register will stage a seminar on the breed in Monaghan on Sunday, November 19.

Michael Goessling, owner of the controversial Thumbelina, has, in fact, undertaken not to breed from this mare. He has disclosed that she stopped growing as a yearling. She wears orthopaedic fittings to help straighten out her legs, which are proportionately smaller than her body and head, bearing out the comments of Lillian Graham and Kimberly Schurek.

The official definition of a miniature horse is that it is a small version of a refined riding horse with the correct conformation and movement. The original stock in these islands came from the very best of the smallest British horse breeds – Exmoor, Dartmoor and Shetland. Later spotted ponies of imported origin were added to gibe more extravagant colours and American imports have been used to add new blood. The main organisations are the British Miniature Horse Society, which maintains a studbook, and the American Miniature Horse Society, the largest in the world.

Miniature horse breeding is big business in the United States, where the top animals can be worth up to $400,000. The average price for an ordinary animal in Ireland is from €500 to €1,200. Better quality animals in Britain and Europe can make up to £30,000.

There are now several hundred-miniature horses in Ireland and there is a growing interest, although the breed is more advanced in the north. Classes were held at around 30 shows in Ireland this year, with one practically every week in the north during the summer. At some shows entries number up to 30 animals.

In 2005, miniatures were part of the programme in ring 1 at the Dublin Horse Show and attracted a huge audience. The RDS, however, decided that they could not accommodate them this year due to programme pressure. Kimberly Schurek’s five-year-old stallion Birchwood UK Sundance, who is 31.5 inches tall, emerged as supreme champion. This year he was also awarded the supreme at the breed show at Cavan for the second time.

Lillian Graham currently has 12 miniature horses, including three stallions and the coloured four-year –old newcomer Unjenik Alfire. She launched her interest with the purchase of a 28-inch stallion in 1996 and then went to England to obtain mares. Graham says that most breeders follow guidelines for miniature horse production – height and type – with height being the main consideration.

Kimberly Schurek believes that conformation should be the main consideration. Fillies are generally more valuable than colts or geldings, while miniature horse registration covers all colours, including skewbalds, piebalds and spotted animals.

Breeders are now focusing on the development of successful bloodlines. Most enthusiasts are involved in showing. There is also a move to establish driving events for miniatures.

A series of show are already scheduled in Northern Ireland for next year. The southern organisation intends to introduce special show jumping classes and obstacle driving at shows next year in addition to breed classes.
 
well i guess i didn't see in that article where they said you shouldn't breed horses under a certain height (though i kinda glanced through most of it). it did however sound like it was highly discouraging breeding dwarfs or for dwarfism. i personally see nothing wrong with breeding little as long as they are conformationally correct and NOT dwarfs.
 
This article is full of opinion, personal agendas, and bias. The reporter should have done more research.
 
This is the first time I've seen this article, when he spoke to me he was asking about miniature horses in general their increased popularity, and the sort of numbers of animals that there was here. He asked about heights I gave him those, the dwarf issues must have arisen later as this was by no means the backbone of our conversation. My own stock is on the 'smaller' side so I don't have issues with breeding with that size of stallion, taking a deap breath before I do the mare side tho. Anyway he hadn't realised their was an irish society and I gave him Evelyn Flynn's name(irish miniature horse and Shetland pony society) he called her another name, can't remember, possibly her maiden name, we do that a lot here !! Because it was a southern paper he was very keen to speak to her and to be honest I thought that was that. So I'm not sure how he got the introduction to Kim, possibly she's listed as a director for the above irish society ?

Anyway I think that the article makes it sound almost 'normal' if you're breeding small, you are going to get dwarfs, which is not giving it the right slant. I've personally seen possibly 3 mini's I would have said I seriously thought they have enough of the dwarf characistics to worry me and 2 of them weren't from smaller parents at all. I don't have to go into the conformation side of things as i think a genuine breeder would take that as rule of thumb, but he did ask me what governs the breed, and well if they can't go under the stick, they can't go in. The rest is up to the judges.

Lillian

OK GO AHEAD AND FIRE !
 
hi lil thanks for coming in and clarifying a few things, i didnt have a problem with anything you said, as you know what your talking about! im glad you got the opportunity to see it though
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