Shootings

[Riverrose28]

I'm at a loss for words, yet again I hear on the news today, another school shooting involving an assault weapon. Please don't get me wrong we own rifles here, two shotguns for hunting and turkey shoots, and a twenty two to shoot varmints or heaven forbid put down one of our beloved animals if the need arised. I personally don't see the need for the average America citizen to own a high assault weapon. It is my opinion that they belong in the hands of the police and the military and need to be taken off of the street. Possably banned from sale in this country until better background checking can be done. These guns are being sold to unstable people and the innocent are suffering. I know for a fact this is not a new problem and that any gun in the wrong hands can be lethal as my first husband was shot and killed back in 1972 by one of his friends as they were fighting over a stupid pool game. There are crazy people now and crazy people then, so I feel we need better background checks. What are you alls feelings on this?

 

[vickie gee]

4 words: Gun grab. Usually orchestrated.

I don't mean to sound cold. I am sorry for what happened to your first husband. That would likely have been caused by a crazy person, at least hot headed and possibly alcohol related?

The people behind the vast majority of these shootings are not crazy. They are greedy. They, not as in the people who end up as "the shooter" , but they, as in the orchestrators of the shootings and in some cases, the "so-called shooting." Elaborating any further would surely be a waste of my time.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

It is happening every where it seems. We just had someone shoot 3 RCMP officers this past week, and they weren't aware they were even being targeted at the time. It is so disturbing, and I'm pretty sure here in Canada the shooter will be treated gently because he is "mentally ill" or some such. Today the breaking news in my province at noon was a shooting in Vancouver that killed a bike store owner and left a (apparently) innocent bystander in hospital in serious condition. We have much tighter gun control regulations than you do in the US and it still happens. After all, gun regulations control honest people but really don't even slow down the person who is planning such a horrible act. I have been trying to decide what has changed that encourages mass shootings since it seems there weren't such things (or they were exceedingly rare at least) when we were kids (we meaning my generation and I know it is exactly what my folks said when they were my age - this new generation is sooo different) I think our inclination to let minors off with very little punishment and keep their crimes a secret is part of it. I don't care who you are or how old you are (yep make the punishment fit the crime of course - not condoning publicly beating a 6 year old) if you break the law you pay the piper. I'm even starting to think public caning might be a not so bad idea sometimes. We have to make people of all ages responsible for their choices. Not that there is any punishment that truly fits when the crime is a mass shooting - especially when its of children.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Riverrose28 I am so sorry to hear that your 1st husband was the victim of a shooting and over something so stupid. I agree with you there are plenty of Crazy people around, these people should never be introduced to guns in the first place.

Reignmaker Miniatures - I totally agree with you, age should mean nothing, if you commit the crime , you pay the price.

Its far too often, on the Tv and in the newspapers of the school shootings that happen overseas. Don't get me wrong we have plenty of shootings in Australia, Drug related , Marriage breakups, Gangland Murders ect

What I cant understand is, What drives someone to the point of no return that they would go into a school and murder there classmates or schoolmates.??? In NO way am I defending the actions of someone that would do this, please don't get me wrong. What I will say is, that some Kids of today can be very cruel. I read an article not long ago on a man that committed this terrible crime. Whilst I do not condone his actions and believe there was a better solution, what he had to endure and was put thru by his classmates was a disgrace.

He was tormented day after day by these Kids, because of the colour of his skin and his sexual orientation. Do you think anyone at the school did anything to help him after he made complaint after complaint.?? NO they didn't.

In Australia it is now against the law to bully another child within school. This law was brought in at the start of the year to combat the increasing rises in child suicide.

I do think gunlaws have a lot to answer for, but if you commit the crime - be prepared to pay the price !!

 

[Riverrose28]

I also think the media gives these shooters the fame and attention that they crave, and should not give out the shooters identity. In this country some of the mentally ill are overlooked and ignored. Most of the time there is no room at a hospital for them to even be treated or they can't afford it, there is greed involved. It's so sad that little children can't go to school and be safe.

 

[lucky seven]

I also think the media coverage for all shootings does give some people the motivation to do the same horrible act. Some are radical in their views and targeting a certain group is their way of getting the message across, for others, it's being bullied or disrespected in some manner. Others it's because of a medical problem. But I do think a large number of kids who kill other kids, have spent too much time on the wrong internet sites or games that are teaching them that killing is easy.

 

[Carriage]

If it fits a predetermined agenda, never let a good tragedy go to waste..... Of course when you quote from their playbook, you are called callus. I assure you that those screaming the loudest give not two flying flips about the murdered like we do. Rather the agenda is primary for them and they merely use the tragedy to accomlish a singular goal.

and then there is the "media".......

 

[Riverrose28]

You know I see posts all the time on other sites that the government wants to take away OUR GUNS, I don't think that is true or even possable. Just don't understand why those of us that own guns and use them for what they are intended don't mind background checks, yet some are screaming that it violates their rights. We all have a right to life and if it means back ground checks then so be. I want my grand children and great grand children to be able to be free in this country and that also means freedom to go were they want without fear of being gunned down. Did you know you can purchase all types of weapons at shows and on the internet without any checking at all, that is just wrong. I've marched on Washington in the past because I believe in this cause, The Brady Bill was a start, but it is time for more.

 

[vickie gee]

Does not matter if you are willing to have background checks and only purchase your guns legally. It will be more of "what difference does it make?" and "it does not matter." Because they want to keep you safe (yeah, right.) They want to take the law abiding citizens guns and they will tell you they want to do it for the children.

Carriage, you are spot on when you say predetermined agenda and singular goal.

Can I get a witness?

 

[lucky seven]

Carriage some of your comments are spot on, but you can't blame all of our problems on the "media", my oldest is a editor of a good sized newspaper. She tries hard to be fair and to put out the latest and most important news. She daily gets obscene calls from people who complain about the "lack" of current news.

I heard on the news that the couple who killed the police and innocent bystander in Los Vegas were involved in the rancher's problems. They didn't need their guns for protection, they Used them to kill others to start a Revolution. I think Riverrose28 is correct, the gov. doesn't want to take guns away from those that follow the law of the land. We have the right to be able to travel to work, shop and school without being afraid of that one person (or two) that want to kill for killing's sake.

The population of this country doesn't need an uzi, or assault rifle to hunt or protect their home. Only the gangs, thugs, and crooks do and they cry the loudest. Also lump the lunatic fringe, the white supremacy and others just as paranoid with them, they are the ones who don't want gun control and buy their weapons online or gun shows to attack those of us who obey the laws and just want to live a useful life to the fullest. I'll get off my soapbox now, I needed to vent on this topic as I'm tired of hearing of school shootings, work shootings, and just in general, people walking down the street and being shot because of their color.

 

[vickie gee]

The powers with this singular goal and an unimaginable, unbelievable agenda to accomplish their goal would have you believe that gun violence is off the charts. They want to push the notion that American gun owners are collectively responsible for mass shootings. I don't feel that deer hunters, concealed carry women toting a 25 caliper in their fanny pack for personal protection while jogging, or granny that is going to fire her 410 at the crow stealing her veggies and pecans, and anyone else that has a gun for similar reasons should have to give them up. That would be un-American. Actually, there has been a 49% drop in gun homocide since 1993. The Bureau of Justice Statistics found that non-fatal gun crimes have dropped nearly 70% over the same period of time. Ironically, despite the drop in gun crime a recent survey found that 56% of Americans believe that it has actually increased. Why would people think that it has increased? Thank you lap dog media. Yes, the Vegas couple showed up at the Bundy ranch. The guy, although unemployed, broke, previously charged with dealing drugs, constantly complaining about his medical bills and financial and personal problems on Facebook somehow is dressed in crisp fatigues, carries an AK-47, and all sorts of fighter garb when NBC conveniently interviewed him of all people at the ranch. Wonder who supplied all that. The couple's beliefs did not fit with the peaceful folks and they were asked to leave the ranch. Why would this couple decide to shoot cops at the pizza place and then run in walmart shooting? Of all the possible answers to this, I don't know. God does. What main stream media did not report was that the innocent victim had concealed carry and opened fire on the shooters. Possibly that person saved the lives of others. The crazed couple who shot cops and had also been interviewed previously was the big story that was all over the news.

What makes the agenda most clear is when one examines not the shootings being mentioned, but the shootings ignored. Endless attention is given to shootings that can be used for political gain, gun control capitols such as Chicago, which recently saw four dead and more than 30 injured in one weekend, are completely ignored. In gun free zones it is the criminals who have the guns and the way I see it makes everyone else a sitting duck to be a victim of crime.

 

[Carriage]

Hi Lucky,

Don't think I ever put "all" the blame on the media. They are merely tools to help accomplish the agenda.

As to "Needing" what you refer to as an "assault weapon", well this speaks to not understanding the purpose, both then and now, for the need for a second ammendment. And that our Liberties are based on our ability to keep them secure by such an ammendment. The founders were quite clear on this need in perpetuity. Governments have ALWAYS been the same since the Isrealites INSISTED on having a king. Attendant with that insistance came a list of curses to be born by those insisting on a king.

The forrest missed for the tree's is other things in our society that also lead to these tragedies. Having studied most of thes horrible events going clear back to Stockton, there is far more at play than has been discussed. I have learned to keep mum on thes things as most are unaware of these things and are not prepared to examine them. Such a mental posture does not in any way make these truths any less true. There is a matrix world out there so maalevalent and evil and for the most part hidden and unknown by the "masses", that makes all of this probable. Until that is realised and see's the light of day, thes things will continue and become much worse. I have warned for years now that in the coming days you WILL see formerly steady and solid people go nuts. In fact it has been happening for some time now. The answer is exquisitely simple, but also refused.

IF you truly thingk that these types of weapons belong in the hands of only military and police, then the worse criminals among them will be armed and against the un-armed populace. And history is quite clear on the outcome of such a move,....... every time.

What you have claimed about the ease of getting weapons either through the internet or gunshows is just simply not true. If you thinks so, you might try. Rather these are agenda driven talking points that while false and provably so, the "public" picks up and runs with without careful examination of the point.

ah well, thanks for your time,

BB

 

[lucky seven]

Carriage, I don't think anyone needs assault weapons, but they don't seem to be going anywhere. The real problem is that gangs bangers, and the mentally ill have access to them. Some steal them, buy them on the street, or other family members have them available. We need to make the population feel safer so there is no need to stockpile these true weapons of mass destruction. I guess you would say that it starts in the home, but so many people think the school teachers need to do everything when it comes to teaching our young. On the whole our government leaders should do more, but that won't happen. Here in this state they are too busy deciding who will get casinos and if pot will be legalized for some medical uses. Until something is done there will be more school shootings and that bothers me that my grandchildren are no longer safe. I grew up with hunting rifles in the house and they were used for hunting, not for threatening a neighbor.

 

[vickie gee]

Carriage,

Would that simple yet refused answer happen to be mind control?

I don't like any sort of guns in the hands of criminals. But, they will get them one way or the other. Lock up the criminals. Don't make them so comfy they feel like they are staying at a resort. Let them bust rocks on a rock pile. At least some sort of physical work that produces something to offset the cost of housing and feeding them would be better than giving them all sorts of privileges.

We the people have the right to keep and bare arms. The Redcoats were ordered to take them up after the tea got dumped in the harbor. It wasn't about tea, it was about the Royalty trying to tax the life blood out of people that had come here and through hard work built a life for themselves, not asking for any government hand outs. We would not be the USA had We the people not stood up for what they had worked for. Now we are about half workers and half entitlementers/DREAMERS and it is by design and the workers are becoming less and less. I repeat, by design.

One thing is for sure: Mass murderers agree that gun control works. Hitler took them, as did Stalin and Mao. Disarm the peasants and then.......????

I can't live in fear that if ever I walk into a mall there is going to be a nut taking mind altering antidepressants running around shooting. Yeah, it could happen. Realistically, the chances are more in favor of getting struck by lightning. I have had lightning bolts hit really close to me more than once. And then once, in Fort Worth at a Jack In The Box I found myself at the catsup pump only to have a gangsta walk in pointing a gun at another gangsta with me between the two. No shot fired thank goodness. But hey, they were scum, not Farmer Joe or Plumber Bob. My point is control the scum.

The powers that be will not be happy with only taking the assault rifles. So, is it "if you like your gun, you can keep your gun"? About the same chance as if you like your doctor, remember?

 

[Carriage]

Miss Vickie,

That would be one among many truths to be examined. But it also takes time and experiance in grade to even begin to understand it. In a crawl, walk run scenario one cannot skip any steps because understanding is built in layers and on the realizations diligent study puts in place and order. Post graduate work must stay in its rightful place , eh?

If I speak to a very simple truth, like the second ammendment and I leave a very visable bread trail to and room for self realization of this simple truth and it is not considered, how much traction will mind control, the use of pschotropic drugs, a debased and degenerate society in general and a host of other truths actually have? Not much if folk are still unable to consume the basics.

Miss Lucky,

The second ammendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting, target or recreational fire-arms. The purpose is one of the balance of power between the soveregn (you and me) and our created servant.

Rather what I see you speaking to, is the need to hold the individual TRULY accountable for their actions. Punishing little Bobby for what little Billy did made no sense as a kid and most certainly does no more so as adults.

In the end, the ammendment says "shall not be infringed". With over 20,000 gun laws on the books today, two points should be manifestly clear.

1) That is ALOT of infringement already

2) with all them laws in place you still have gun violence

Ignored in all this are the butchers and murderers who poison your food, your air, your water and most certainly your medicine. These genociders are never even talked about. Why is that? because "media" and our fearless "leaders" don't talk about it. WHY? Simple really, they have learned to not bite the hand that feeds them. But, make no mistake about it, this level of murder makes what we were speaking about to look silly in comparison. Is there a problem, well of course, its nailing down the true culprit that is the trick. Suffice to say, it's not the gun or ANY gun. Neither will I surrender a stitch of Liberty, to the falsehood of provided "safety". For in the end it is NEVER safety but rather the surety of despotism. It ALWAYS has been this way. If the bad guys have guns, then you also want the goodguys to posses them. And this opens a scary box. Whom are the real and true bad guys? I learned and lived the answer to this question long ago. Before you create a law robbing millions of a right to self defense, it would be good to answer that question truthfully. I'll give you a hint, you most likely vote for them every election cycle..... For not one of them votes from pure a Constitutional perspective AS THEY ALL SWORE TO DO. Not one.

Am grateful for your time,

Bb

 

[andi]

I think this topic, of "shootings" becomes far to complicated so quickly and every "complication" just leads us further from the truth. WE are collectively responsible, whether we are the ones blaming guns or blaming the government for taking the guns, we are moving ourselves further from the harsh reality that the event is throwing in our faces, maybe that is our natural defensive/coping mechanism, but it needs to be recognized and kept separate. We are all human beings and while it may make us feel better to label people "good" and "evil" and never imagine that we or our loved ones could fall into the later category the truth is we all sometimes do. I think most random acts of violence are the results of us, as a society and personally, ignoring one another when we slip, some of us over and over. To be clear, I don't mean that more government funding needs to be allocated to the mentally ill, that is just another way to push the problem up the ladder, insert a personal agenda and avoid responsibility. We need to care about one another on a day to day, person to person bases. In our current world of mass communication and constant entertainment and distraction it is easy to turn a blind eye to our loved ones and even more easy to do it to classmates or coworkers. We all can easily refer to our overwhelming responsibilities, goals or personal needs to justify not keeping up with our own humanity, but then we will lose it in little unremarkable pieces. I think the amount of isolation that the average person feels nowadays is not even recognized and that isolation can turn to guilt and frustration so easily and in the end make people feel that they need to get attention any way they can. Not like a spoiled child having a temper tantrum, but more a soul unable to define what nourishment they are lacking until their physical being takes over and demands it anyway they can. By turning these personal issues into national political ones we are creating the environment that causes and breeds them in the first place. Until we all accept that every little decision we make personally, no matter how small or insignificant, adds up quickly and dramatically, this cycle will continue.

 

[lucky seven]

Andi, you are so correct and thank you for voicing your opinion so clearly. This goes so way beyond the second amendment and we as a people need to take our blinders off and take charge, and begin to make the changes needed for our society. We have way too many people who feel ignored and act out in the wrong way to gain the attention that they need or desire.

If my views offend anyone then I am sorry. Carriage, I have read some of the books you recommended and they were thought provoking.

 

[shorthorsemom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXIW1GKAvMM

 

[lucky seven]

Biden isn't the sharpest tack in the box.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Everyone has some great point of views here. Gun Laws are very different around the world. In Australia I am permitted to own a gun because I live on land in a rural Environment. Apart from that Guns are banned unless you belong to a Shooting target Club, hunting Club ect. I agree and support the laws here which changed a decade or more ago. if you live on land and own a gun to protect your herd from animal predators then I am fully supportive of that. I would hate to think you would loose the right to do this.

Not sure I would support the notion in that everyone has a right to own a gun without good reason. I don't actually own one But if I felt the need that My property/Horses needed to be protected I would have no hesitation in Buying one. Due to the laws here I would have to be background checked and it would have to be registered.

great topic and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your point of views.

Ryan