Shetland Convention info

Discussion in 'Pony Talk' started by txminipinto, Nov 12, 2007.

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  1. Nov 12, 2007 #21

    SweetOpal

    SweetOpal

    SweetOpal

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    Well while it is 2,000 miles (one way) for me and yes Lincoln would have been closer, you can bet your butts that you will have to move it a little further than 700 miles to get rid of me! I will be there will bells on, the trailer is packed!!!! I hauled them that far last year and they had no problem being ready to show and do thier best!

    The only thing that I wasn't impressed with was the lyme stalls, but you can bet I will live with it. I will either see you all there or I will tell you all about it when I return!

    Jennifer
     
  2. Nov 12, 2007 #22

    Leeana

    Leeana

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    You go girl [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Nov 12, 2007 #23

    disneyhorse

    disneyhorse

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    Jennifer is one dedicated person... no one will ever deny that [​IMG]

    Andrea
     
  4. Nov 13, 2007 #24

    Karen S

    Karen S

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    The other part of the Congress equation was the World Show (by the way Belinda...do you have the World Show Dates and the Miniature Nationals Dates?)...Those pony people that will showing at Worlds will only have (2) two days between Worlds and Congress. If the show had been held at Lincoln...we were told that the Modern's would not be there at Congress and there wasn't enought turn-around time.

    Karen
     
  5. Nov 13, 2007 #25

    Leeana

    Leeana

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    Two days? The reason i didnt attend the world show last year was because it was so close to congress and even then it was like a week or so before congress. I really was wanting to do the world show agian next year but even with taking just two horses to congress, there is no way i could get home and pack and clip even just two horses in two days [​IMG]. I guess we'll have to see what next year bring. I was really hoping they would move ohio worlds farther away from the congress dates.
     
  6. Nov 13, 2007 #26

    txminipinto

    txminipinto

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    Leeana,

    The Ohio World Show is not run by the registry, therefore, we can not set the dates on that show. The only shows we have control over is Nationals and Congress.

    Yes, Belinda, thank you for presenting my proposal. While I appreciate your time, I did hear it was not read in it's entirety. For those who want to know, my proposal was not to JUST raise the height of the Foundations to match ALL shetlands. I had broken the height divisions (Under and Over), EXACTLY like the Classic classes. While it would have added more classes to the show bills and more expense(and time) to the shows in providing awards for those additional classes, it also would have added increased potential income for breeders who have over 42" Foundation ponies(a new, showable, market) as well as the trainers who could add those ponies to their show string. Unfortunately, the Foundation debate will continue regardless of height UNTIL judges pick according to TYPE.

    I also heard that the Congress location in Cloverdale was the ONLY one presented. Makes it kinda of hard to make an informed choice for the entire registry with only one option.

     
  7. Nov 13, 2007 #27

    ownedbyapony

    ownedbyapony

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    Hi Carin,

    I think the information you received regarding the presented sites was incorrect. There were several sites presented to the board on Saturday afternoon.

    Lincol, NE - presented by Tracy Slagle

    Cloverdale, IN - presented by Bud Stephenson

    Du Quoin, IL - presented by Doloris Williams

    Spring field, OH - presented by Bud Stephenson

    The sites were all presented and discussed by the board. The discussion covered availables stall, amenities etc.. but the most talked about aspect of ALL of the sites was COST.

    There was no discussion regarding people who would come vs people who would not. From a bystanders view it was totally decided on ability to meet our #'s and our pocket book.

    Amber
     
  8. Nov 13, 2007 #28

    Ponygirl

    Ponygirl

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    :DOH! Gosh, Carin, I sure hope you are wrong about Cloverdale being the only location presented at the meeting.......that just wouldn't be right, no matter what the reasoning behind it.......
     
  9. Nov 13, 2007 #29
    I remember them saying there would be an over and under division in the Foundation and raising the heights. I also remember there was one person who was for it pretty much the rest of the room against it. (I do think a couple voted for it but my notes are not right here)

    More then one congress location was discussed in fact the NE person who was talking about it got quite detailed - I left the room for a couple minutes and came back and she was still answering questions ~ But really the bottom line is maybe more were presented to the board as it was not a general membership vote

    I will say the one thing I dont understand is why the propsoals in there entirety are not posted on the web site before convention that way everyone can say they saw it and knew what was being voted on and could either go to convention or not depending on how important the issue was to them ? I know they are published in the Journal but just seems to me we could use the web site for stuff like this as well

    Just thinking we have the web site and we pay for it already(the registry one) why not use it and then everyone would feel there proposals were seen as they were written
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  10. Nov 13, 2007 #30

    Belinda

    Belinda

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    Carin

    I DID present your proposal as it was submitted !! I told you when you submitted it we had voted on that the last 2 or 3 yrs and every year it is the same but that I would present it !!! That is what I am suppose to do [​IMG] So whoever told you it was not submitted in the form it was sent in is INCORRECT !! I will say I did not read all the names on the petition you had signed as that is not part of the proposal..

    I have a phone number and email if you would like to discuss this with me ..
     
  11. Nov 13, 2007 #31

    hhpminis

    hhpminis

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    Carin,

    I did hear your proposal in its entirety. It may have had a bit of a twist from the last proposals about the same thing but basically it was the same and it was turned down. There were a couple that voted for it, the rest of the group in the committee meeting voted it down.

    Here is why I voted it down. It may or may not be the same reason as others. And nothing personal, just my opinion on the matter.

    We have standards within the breed. These standards are there for a reason. Not every animal we have born on our property is going to fit those standards. The object is to breed within those standards, not make new standards to fit what we are breeding and creating divisions for them to show in.

    Lets face it, not all horses are show horses. A horse may be born of foundation type but is 46 inches tall. If it has too much bone to show with the classics, than sell it as a pet. There is a huge market for well behaved childrens ponies.

    My barn is full of foundation certified shetlands that are 38 inches or under. They also are not what I consider "foundation" type. Showing them against the tall classics would be really hard to do as they will look like midgets out there.

    So if we are going to do this with the foundation, then lets make a classic class for under 38". I am not trying to be sarcastic, and sorry if it sounds that way, but we cannot create show divisions for every possible scenario that we may have in our barn or future barns. We would have to have 5 day shows.
     
  12. Nov 13, 2007 #32

    txminipinto

    txminipinto

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    Belinda,

    I stand corrected that you presented my proposal in it's entirety. That's part of the problem with staying home AND not getting the Journal before the convention (or at all at this time). Regarding the location of Congress, if a cheaper arena had submitted a bid from California or Florida, I highly doubt that the Congress would be moved there solely on cost. Cost is not the only reason for our Congress location. Its just very sad that we try so hard to promote the shetland (I even take mine to fairs and such to promote the breed) yet our National show isn't located to attract the smaller exhibitor who is the one buying the shetlands from the breeders. I'll probably be there next year regardless of location because of the time and money I've invested in my stock, but it's going to be a hard sell to clients who are looking at the mileage(Texas regular fuel is at $3.00/gal, I shudder to see what it is in August).

    As far as "creating" show divisions and classes, let's talk about the western division, the ASPR, and the National show pony. All newly created. At least my "create a class" effort is designed to promote those taller foundation bred ponies that deserve a place to be shown (I will ad that I don't own nor do I have any that fit the TYPE for this class). Funny, kinda sounds like creating a place for those "over" minis. That seemed to work out in the end.

    Anyway, done beating my dead horse [​IMG] . Time to prepare for next year.
     
  13. Nov 13, 2007 #33

    Sharron

    Sharron

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    Hi Carin

    A couple of things to clear up...First congratulations on being named by Jason Prince the head of the Classic Sweepstakes committee...I must say if you had known prior to being named that you were going to be named, that you should have been duty bound to be at the Convention so everyone would have known you and you could have spoken about your plans, and the direction you would be taking the Sweepstakes.

    Secondly, Belinda STRESSED to all area V members that they needed to attend the Board meeting, to hear what was proposed and how it was done for the final decision...Cloverdale WAS NOT the only facility that was proposed, as Tracy Slagle gave an indepth report on the Lincoln Facility, and Bud Stevens also gave two in depth reports. One on the Springfield facility, and one on the Cloverdale Facility, as one presented at the board meeting for DuQuoin IL... There was LOTS of discussion on the various sites not only by those attending the different committee meetings, but also the board...the bottom line was COST factor, not who would attend, or where they were located...If someone really WANTS to attend a Congress, then they will A. Budget to get there, B find someone to travel with and share expenses, or C make arrangements with someone else to take their horse and present it...as the old saying goes....where there is a will there is a way!!! I was present at all the meetings, and the Congress locations were discussed at length, with presentations done for each location except Du Quoin IL, that was presented at the board meeting. It is too bad that no-one but Karen and I saw fit to attend the Board meeting to "get the facts" and knew what went on, saw the indepth discussion, and were able to see the reasoning behind the decisions...All board meetings except a couple are open to any member that wants to sit in and actually see the "workings" of our organization...It is VERY educational, for those that really want the facts...those attending are not allowed to "talk" for or against any issues, but it does let you see how your representatives vote for their area...

    All facts that were presented to the board and those that were at the committee meetings were well done, and were very concise.

    Sharron
     
  14. Nov 13, 2007 #34

    Sharron

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    WHOA wait a minute Carin...The ASPR division is NOT a newly created division...it has been in existence for 10 years...I don't call that newly created...what has been newly created is a committee is willing to work at promoting the division, and getting some of those ponies put before the public, with promotion, and incentives to own and show an American Show Pony...we are a forward thinking group that are willing to commit and put our money where our mouths are, and present this division to the rest of the pony buying public. Trying to "live down" the sordid reputation ( which I might add is un-deserving) that the Show pony division, and ALL Shetlands for that matter suffer from.

    The only newly created division is the NSPR, and unfortunately they are going to go through the same "growing pains" as the ASPR division has gone through these past 10 years. Hopefully now however the American Show Ponies will begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel!

    Sharron
     
  15. Nov 13, 2007 #35

    txminipinto

    txminipinto

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    Sharron,

    Yes, I had known about the Classic Sweepstakes as I had offered Jason to help him (or take it) at Congress. Unfortunately, duty bound or not, I have bills to pay and I could not financially afford to make the $1000 trip to Convention. Attending 3 national level shows and moving an entire farm(including building a brand new barn and building fence on completely virgin soil) tends to have its financial set backs. I do not apologize for putting my financial situation first. However, if anyone wants to personally contact me about my plans for the Classic Sweepstakes I gladly and openly take all suggestions privately.
     
  16. Nov 13, 2007 #36

    alongman

    alongman

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    Hold on a second! Let me address this area briefly. First, I do judge the Foundation division as well as every other division based on the rules that are presented to me and the standard that is set forth by EVERYONE. The breeders are equally responsible for breeding the "extreme" Foundation horses as well as the trainers'/exhibitors' who bring them out and show them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "the judges will either love them or dump them". That's a heck of a position to put the judges' in. If you know that your animal doesn't meet the standard for the division - PUT IT IN THE CORRECT ONE!!!!!

    Let me pose this to you, since judging from the rail is EASY. I have three animals in my Foundation class - 2 are more "foundation type" but are conformationally not equivalent (with noticeable faults) to the third who is "less foundation type". Would you rather I place the animals with faults first because they are the most "foundation looking"? If so, propse that in the rules for 2009. It will make judging a heck of a lot easier! I can be told to be a trained monkey, but I refuse to be held responsible for picking horses that I don't feel are quality.

    We had a long discussion in the Judges' Clinic regarding this very issue. I love to think that the opinion of myself and my colleagues who judge is influencing the ENTIRE breed - we are simply providing our opinion of the horses presented to us on a particular day.

    I would be happy to discuss this issue with anyone who cares to PM.
     
  17. Nov 13, 2007 #37

    kaykay

    kaykay

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    HI Adam

    I was told in 2006 after convention that judges were told that any pony showing off type (wrong class) should not be placed and should be given the gate to discourage people from showing off type.

    But you are saying type doesnt matter if one horse is more correct? Im so confused!

    Thanks

    Kay
     
  18. Nov 13, 2007 #38
    I didnt read he said type doesnt matter I read (and I am clueless and still learning this pony stuff)

    that he is meaning something like this...

    3 horses in foundation

    Horse A- in type but horrible hind end- glaring faults not subtle

    Horse B- in type but say toes out, jug head and horrible neck set- glaring faults not subtle

    Horse C- Not in type more classic in type however also is the without a doubt more correct horse all the way around perhaps with a subtle fault

    Would you prefer judges picked horse A or B over C even though C is the OBVIOUS more correct horse is

    kinda how I am reading his post.

    It is a interesting question and again I will say I am not yet a pony person I am a want-a-be for the time being [​IMG]
     
  19. Nov 13, 2007 #39

    kaykay

    kaykay

    kaykay

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    in a perfect world the best horse would always be the one that wins

    My point though if there is no penalty for showing off type then how can you ever stop it?

    Knowing what Adam posted I can now see why people show in the wrong class. Does that make sense?

    While I would like the most correct to win I do think they should also fit the type for the class they are showing in. Otherwise what is the point of having different classes/divisions? If type doesnt matter then we should show like miniatures and just divide them up by size?

    Kay
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  20. Nov 13, 2007 #40

    alongman

    alongman

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    Kay - you are correct! A horse showing in the "wrong class" can be excused and placed in the correct class. HOWEVER, you know as well as I do, that often the "correct" class has already been shown and the horse is now not showing at the show, period. That's a great way to get a lot of people upset with you (from a judging perspective). So, its a dilema, do you place the horse, excuse the horse or WHAT?! Believe me, there was a lot of discussion at the Judges' Clinic. We don't want to turn people away - in fact, quite the opposite, we want to keep people showing and attract new people. At the same time, we don't want to blatently place off-type horses. Believe me, it's not an easy decision.

    Lisa - You saw it exactly like I was hoping! This is often the case. I was asked to judge the horses in the class based on the standards presented in the rulebook. However, the rulebook is often deliberately vague in some areas making this a very gray area. It's not gray just for the judges, but also for the exhibitors as well. Some honestly don't know which class to enter their animal in. If that's the case, then I'd be happy to direct them how I see the most appropriate fit. BUT, some exhibitors don't want any opinion other than the placing - darned if you do, darned if you don't.

    One of my peers termed it probably the best - judging is much like being the PR person for the organization. You have to try to make everyone happy while taking all the blame. I'm only human - I do make mistakes, but we all do. There are times that I look back on a class and see something that would have changed my opinion, but it is ONLY my opinion on that particular day. It is not the basis of the entire breed, nor would I expect someone to change their entire program based on one show or placing.
     

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