Response to Rob Crater's Post

[Karen S]

Good Day to All,

I wanted to take this time to address the concerns of Mr. Rob Crater of CLC Miniatures from Washington state regarding the ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Triple A High Point Amateur awards at the 2005 AMHR Nationals. I visited with Mr. Crater by phone yesterday (Pacific Time) to let him know that I had looked into his concerns and he was pleased to hear from me.

I spent well over an hour on the phone with my committee member, Sharron Hinkle, who represented the ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Triple A Amateur committee at this year's Nationals. We went over all of Rob's placings from the show and compared what was on her class sheets against what was posted on the Horse Show site that Mr. Davenport provided. First, Rob did go see the office regarding the error he saw in the show premium book. I did confirm this with Sharron as she too had a show premium book showing a young ladies name as the handler in two of the Amateur classes in which Rob's horse was entered. Our wonderful announcer, Mr. Mark Bullington did make the necessary corrections on the paperwork that he has out in the center ring, but unfortunately that correction didn't make it into the computer even after Rob visited with the office.

When we figure the Amateur awards for this show, all the committee can go by is what is printed on those class sheets. If an error is found, but not corrected immediately we (the committee) have no way of knowing if the handler is correct or not. You must remember, in the AMHR division anyone in the family that is 18 years of age or older can show in an Amateur class except in the Incentive classes, and the handler of the horse in those Incentive classes must be the same person as listed on the registration papers. So, the young lady listed as the handler in two of those Amateur classes was given the points in those two classes under her name as we had no way of knowing if she was kin to Mr. Crater.

Mr. Crater was only in the running for the Miniature Performance "Over" division. He didn't score high enough in any other divisions. Mr. Edward McCarthy II did in fact win both the Miniature Halter 'Under & Over" by a large lead over any other Amateurs that competed in the halter classes. What did happen to Rob was that there was a "Tie" for the Miniature "Over" Performance division and that tie had to be broken. His name along with the person who was the winner was placed in a hat and the name was drawn. Rob was happy with knowing that he had a chance at a shot at the Miniature Performance award in the "Over" division but only one person could be the winner.

The only solution to this scenerio that we (Sharron and I) could come up with is this: At the time of the error, when found by you the Amateur, go to the show office, fill out a change of handler form and have the office personnel make the changes while you are still there. Again, remember we can only go by what is printed and handed to us to figure these awards.

Again, Congrats to all of the winners from the 2005 AMHR Nationals including our Amateur winners. Hope to see you in the winner circle in 2006!

As a reminder: December 1st is the cut-off date for your End of the Year Awards for the Halter division "Over & Under" and the Performance division 'Over and Under" for both the Miniatures & Shetlands along with the Supreme Amateur award overall. If you need the End of the Year paperwork and don't have any, please send me an email with your mailing address along with your Amateur number and I will be happy to get that out to you.

For any questions concerning the ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Triple A Amateur program please don't hesitate to drop me an email or give me a call after 6 pm CST. Thanks.

Sincerely,

Karen Shaw

Chairman

ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Triple A Amateur Committee

 

[kaykay]

Karen

thanks for getting to the bottom of it and spending the time to figure out what happened.

Kay

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well i am glad it got figured out and wish there was a way to give the award to BOTH who tied since both worked hard and earned it and deserve it.

Why cant it be that way? a tie is a tie and means 2 winners is it a matter of funds? to get an award to both who worked so hard and did so well?

If so while i am not a rich person by any means (especially after nationals

)

I would be willing to donate so that both of these people can get the recognition they both deserve

 

[Jill]

Thanks for explaining what happened. I don't know a good solution (other than to have 2 winners), but to me, it is kind of heart breaking still to hear two people achieved the wins for the title but it was decided by pulling a name out of a hat. When it's something that so much effort went into earning, I just feel bad that it could be decided in that way where it is just about chance (between two who deserved it).

 

[dannigirl]

Maybe it would be possible to recognize the other winner verbally so that all would know there was a tie. Then the award winner could be chosen and at least the other person in the tie would know where he (she) stood.

 

[Cathy_H]

Seems to me there were two winners & there are still two winners.... Both could have received recognition in the ring as a tie THEN the name could have been pulled out for the trophey / ribbon (if there was one)..... Hopefully this will be discussed & thought through in case it happens again......... [SIZE=14pt]Congratulations Rob![/SIZE]

 

[CLC Stables]

Karen is THE BEST there is. She was wonderful to deal with on the phone, and she took the ball forward to work on something that I wasn't expecting them to do.

I am just happy I KNOW that I was close to winning, at least there was the effort made to reconcile the mistakes made by others.

I thank Karen Shaw, and Sharon Hinkle for the INCREDIBLE work they do.

 

[Dandy]

I've never shown Nationals or a strictly miniature show, but this seems so unfair to just decide by pulling a name. Especially at a National level. When we have ties at our local open association, I provide a duplicate award for that placing. I realize they probably wouldn't have ribbons or whatever at the show, but could not the announcement be made and the award shipped to one of the individuals at a later date? Just wondering.

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning All,

I will take each suggestion that has been made back to my Amateur committee at this years Convention and discuss other possible avenues for the future. What may seem unfair to you (the one on the loosing end) is still very fair to all.

Your ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Triple A Amateur committee strives to be sure this program is fair to every amateur. Just ask how many amateurs out there have already won awards during the past three show seasons (program started in 2003) and you will see how many amateurs we have reached during this short period of time. If you are one of the lucky winners of any of the awards from the local shows to the Supreme Amateur we the committee applaud you. Keep up the good work.

Thank you, Amateurs for participating and staying in touch. I have received from time to time letters from you, our Amateurs, praising the program. What this tells me is that your amateur committee must be doing something right.

Sincerely,

Karen Shaw

Chairman

ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Triple A Amateur Program

 

[Jill]

Well, I'm not on the loosing end of this at all, and it seems unfair to me to draw names out of a hat at the Nationals. It just seems that, compared to all the expenses connected to the show, being able to give two physical awards and two titles in the event of a tie should be do-able. I hope it will work out that the committee can see a way to provide for this in the future. Actually, from either side (the name drawn, and the name not drawn), it would kind of weigh on my mind over the years if I won it thinking how easily, by total chance, I may not have gained that recognition and the flip side is worse. I think it is really great that you are going to bring it up at the meeting!

 

[Relic]

When there is a tie drawing one of the names out of a hat is about as unprofessional at a national show as flipping a coin for the winner. A tie in MHO should always be awarded equal titles before a coin toss. lf it's a question of funds then after both are announced they can be mailed out their awards which saves the show from having doubles for that year made ahead of time. l also have always believed if it's known there are 7 younger youth competing in a class that there should be one extra ribbon for the 7th child they also tried their best they are children who remember for a long time if there are 8 they are not as disappointed to go without because they were not left standing alone with nothing for everyone to see. But l would hope most shows are good about that one now.

 

[hhpminis]

I see both sides here a bit and am not totally sure which side I sit on but am going to share my thoughts.

It is a very tough crumb to swallow when you come so close to something you have worked for only to have it be second place. However, there is gratification in knowing that you were in the running.

There has been a lot of talk about how "fair" the calculating for placings is and I have come to this conclusion over the past 10 years that we just need to accept some things for the way they are. I have been on both ends of the calculating and I have found that when it sends you to the downward side it is unjust and when it sends you to the upward side it is great! LOL I have received placings that in my opinion I did not deserve and not gotten placings when I felt I truly deserved them.

I feel the most important part of showing is leaving the ring with a smile on your face and a good attitude whether you place well or not. I saw a lot of bad attitude coming out of the ring at Tulsa and I was very offended by the unprofessionalism of some of our exhibitors. If you can only smile when you place than you need to consider the example you are setting for our younger ones.

That gets me to the kids. Although it is very hard for me to see a young one come out of the ring without a ribbon, I think it is an important part of showing to learn how to lose graciously. It does not take the kids long to learn that a participation ribbon is still not placing. I also have seen judges be very thoughtful of the little ones feelings and even carry trinkets with them to make sure every young one leaves with something.

To sum up this long post, there is no easy answer to any of this and in horse shows there will always be winners and losers. One will always be easier to swallow than the other. To be able to congratulate your competition with a sincere smile on the way out the ring is your biggest accomplishment. Compare yourself with yourself and consider your improvment and your horses improvement. Keep working at it and eventually it will be your day. Most importantly, enjoy what you do. If you only enjoy it when you win then consider this, 99% of showing horses is the hard grunt work behind the scenes where you get dirty, stinky, sore and tired. You have to love it all to do it well.