Regumate Mare - what precisely is involved?

[ruffian]

What is required with a "Regumate" Mare? Shots? Feeds?

Is it hereditary?

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Regumate is a perscription drug, an oral progestin. Its dosed 1ml per 110lbs once a day, for 120-240 days of pregnancy. It generally costs $3/day for a full sized horse. Its oil based and can be absorbed through the skin, so gloves are mandatory. If a woman was to absorb some of the progrestin, she may experience symptoms ranging from mild headaches to full blown cramps lasting for days. Men handling the drug on a constant basis will have mood swings, lower sex drive, and shrunken testicles. Most men won't spill enough on themselves on a daily basis to notice though, so its generally much safer for them to handle than women. Regumate can be fed with a syringe, dose syringe, or poured on their feed.

 

[albahurst]

You can also use a shot every 7 to 10 days, as prescribed by your vet. It is, IMO, much easier to manage than the daily. I suppose there are pros and cons to each type.

Peggy

 

[ruffian]

Is it hereditary? Is that 120 through 240 days?

 

[mondak]

Regumate is a synthetic progestrone used to either maintain pregnancy or to keep a mare from cycling in the case of a show mare etc. It makes the body think the mare is pregnant, therefore not producing estrogen, or FSH. It is not hereditary, it is a reproductive hormone in mares. The shot, I have heard, while much easier to handle, is not nearly as effective as the oral. Hope this helps!

Courtney

 

[Becky]

I'm assuming you are talking about a mare that stays on progesterone to maintain pregnancy. We have used it quite successfully here with mares that abort for unknown reasons.

As has been pointed out, progesterone can be given in weekly injections or orally using Regumate.

Normally, a mare is put on progesterone after ultrasounding in foal. We have had the best luck here keeping her on progesterone until she foals. We have had mares that abort when taken off of progesterone prior to foaling. My personal recommendation is to keep a mare on it once it is started. Our vet used to wean them off before foaling, but with experience, he now recommends keeping them on it for the entire pregnancy.

The mare is otherwise treated as a normal mare and usually foals and breeds back with no problem. It's not normally cosidered a hereditary problem.

 

[minimule]

I had a mare for a while that had to be put on Regumate at 9 months pregnancy. She tended to abort at 10 months if she wasn't put on it. She was tested and did have some hormone issues that could have been handled with other drugs but the vet and her owner opted for this instead.

She was given 3cc once a day mixed in with her feed. When she was about 2 weeks out from her "due" date the dose stopped. It worked for her. She had 3 live foals using this. When they failed to do it, she aborted again.

If a woman absorbs too much, she CAN have a false pregnancy. I have a friend that was careless and she had every symptom of being pregnant; weight gain, morning sickness, mood swings........ She's still trying to get rid of the weight she gained.

 

[Joanne]

We have used oral Regumate here on a couple of our mares.

There is no question that it is more work. If you are thinking about buying a mare that needs it, be prepared to use it for the duration of the pregnancy.

I agree with Becky that the current thinking is to just let them foal out when they are on it and not wean them off.

The dose is based on weight and may need to be increased during the pregnancy or if they are threatening to abort.

 

[Kitty]

I have a mare that we use the injectable form on. It took me two years to figure out her problem and then it hit me.

I would rather give a shot every other week then daily. My life is too busy for daily and with traveling I would worry that someone isn't giving it to her. I have had excellent success with this and she is about to foal her 3rd foal on it. And the expense is no more than daily regumate.

If you like a mare and she requires alittle extra attention in the form of regumate, don't let it stop you. Myself it gives me a chance to look her over and make sure everything is OK. And a extra treat, which she appreciates.

 

[LC Farm]

We have a percheron mare that we give 20cc of regamate to oraly once a day. It is a pain but well worth a healthy foal. I give the dose or my daughter's hubby gives it we don't let my daughter handle it. We always wear rubber gloves.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I've never had a vet or professor suggest leaving a mare of Regumate for the entire pregnancy unless there was a serious medical issue requiring it. The mare's own body and placenta produce enough progesterone to keep her pregnant starting around day 100-120. That is why most animals come off of Regumate between days 120 and 150. Some vets say better safe than sorry, and leave the animal on it until 240-300 days. This in my opinion is a waste of money, unless you own one of those animals that has a specific need or history. You absolutely do not want to keep them on Regumate until foaling, the mare needs that drop in progesterone before parturition to prepare her body for the foaling process. Regumate tightens the cervix (one of the reasons people use it is to help a comprimized cervix) and if its locked shut, it takes a lot of effort to get the foal out.

Progesterone shots do work, but they are a nasty shot and irritate the injection site a lot. They are not quite as effective, and there is no proven dose. Every vet you ask will tell you a different dose. During the year we used Regumate AND progesterone, we went from 1500mg/week to 400mg/week, and nobody seemed to notice the difference, other than reacting to higher volume injections.

 

[Becky]

I've never had a vet or professor suggest leaving a mare of Regumate for the entire pregnancy unless there was a serious medical issue requiring it. The mare's own body and placenta produce enough progesterone to keep her pregnant starting around day 100-120. That is why most animals come off of Regumate between days 120 and 150. Some vets say better safe than sorry, and leave the animal on it until 240-300 days. This in my opinion is a waste of money, unless you own one of those animals that has a specific need or history. You absolutely do not want to keep them on Regumate until foaling, the mare needs that drop in progesterone before parturition to prepare her body for the foaling process. Regumate tightens the cervix (one of the reasons people use it is to help a comprimized cervix) and if its locked shut, it takes a lot of effort to get the foal out.

Nathan, I agree that is the normal train of thought with most vets and full size horses. However, I do believe there is some differences in miniature mares. I know of several farms including mine, that have stopped the Regumate (slowly by weaning) shortly before the mare foaled and the mare aborted. We have been leaving the mares on Regumate until foaling and have seen no adverse affects. The mares bag up normally and foal normally.

This is certainly something to be discussed with a vet on an individual basis but leaving the mares on progesterone until foaling has certainly worked here. I'd rather have a live foal than not.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

The process I explained transcends species... I find it hard to believe that minis are different from every other species that's been studied

I know several vets who perscribe Regumate for their mares until the day they foal and it certainly doesn't STOP the process, it just makes it longer and harder for the mare. In some cases its ONLY used that last week or two, especially if there is a problem such as placentitis, to give the mare every chance she can to keep things together long enough to get the foal mature enough to live. But as a general rule its not the best idea to keep them on it indefinately.

There is also the thought that Regumate CAUSES those mares to abort; they become dependant on the hormone through negative feedback and actually decrease the amount of progesterone they produce naturally. Then you pull them off the suppliment and their natural hormones aren't sufficient to keep things together. This is also what happens with chronic use of Thyrol-L. I try to keep mares on it for the minimum time needed, 120-150 days, unless they have a history or pathological issue which suggests it might be beneficial for a longer period.

I've also seen Regumate keep a dead fetus for much longer than the mare would have naturally. It sometimes does its job too well.

Its also one of the most overperscribed drugs in use in the horse world. That and Thyrol-L

 

[MiniThymeAcres]

So regumate CAN be used to keep show mares from going into heat? That's what I've heard. Is it expenisve?

 

[Charlotte]

The process I explained transcends species... I find it hard to believe that minis are different from every other species that's been studied I know several vets who perscribe Regumate for their mares until the day they foal and it certainly doesn't STOP the process, it just makes it longer and harder for the mare.

Nathan, I agreed with you wholey about miniatures not being different than other breeds of horses......... Until I had 10-15 years of experience breeding miniature horses to add to my 30 years of breeding full size horses. Now I know there are differences...in normal blood values, in response to pharmaceitucals and biologicals, in response to enviornmental toxins. Differences beyond the very obvious size difference.

Veterinarians, a number of them, recommended weaning the mare off Regumate before foaling because that is the way it's done with 'big' horses when we began to use it to offset the black walnut (juglone) issues here on our farm. EVERY time we did the mare aborted! Terrible distocias! The foal would have been viable if delivered normally...it was just days to a week or 2 from a normal delivery.

Two years of this finally told me something was wrong with the vet recommendations. I contacted a number of long time, big herd, miniature breeders and was told waht I had begun to suspect....leave the mare on Regumate through foaling. Period. We have done that for 3-4 years now with a number of mares and not one has had any problem with foaling. There are World and National Champions and Top Tens out there right now who were Regumate babies from here.

We just have to remember, no drug companies use miniature horses in their studies of products they are developing. It is all big horses or sometimes large ponies used in the studies. We have to remember, many veterinarians have never even SEEN a miniature horse. All they can do is make recommendations based on large horse studies and their experience with large horses. We as miniature owners have to be proactive...we have to do our research.....like asking for opinions here on LB and other mini boards. (thank goodness this is available to us)

Charlotte

 

[ruffian]

Thanks for the very helpful info guys!!

 

[Joanne]

I have had the same experiences as Becky and Charolotte.

I spoke with Dr Ed Squires with last fall. We have documented that the 250 day range is a period that miniatures tend to abort. We put our problem mares on Regumate (oral) the day we ultrasound them in foal and keep them on it through when we know we can get a viable foal (after 320 days).

Dr Squires agreed and added that IF we have any udder development (rare in my experience) that they should be put on TMZ in addition to Regumate. He recommended up to double the stated dose (thoroubred breeders routinly do this) for Regumate if they are threatening an abortion.

As has been noted by Becky and Charlotte, Dr Squires has no problem with letting them foal out while on Regumate. Obviously it does NOT prevent foaling!

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

What Dr Squires is describing is the treatment for placentitis, in which case the SMZs and Regumate is a last ditch effort to keep the infection at bay long enough to mature the foal's lungs and prepare it for a premature birth. Regumate helps keep things closed for those last few days to get every last bit of growth, while the SMZs are the most effective antibiotic for reaching the placental region with good results.

I never said that Regumate PREVENTS birth, just that it makes things harder and longer. If a mare is normally going to take 340 days to cook a baby, she may take 350 on Regumate. Does the baby need those extra 10 days? No, but Mom does, to overcome the drug's effects and spit it out.

My statement is that this is not something that should be routine; it should be used only when needed based on pathological issues or past history. As mentioned Regumate is one of the most overperscribed drugs out there. Is that bad? Only for your pocketbook, most of the time.

Regumate has similar effects on mammals in general. In fact, its been used on orcas, dolphins, and elephants! It effects all mammals in the same manner because it fools the progesterone receptors into thinking its physiologic progesterone, which is universal in mammals. Progesterone is one of the few chemical messangers that is the same exact substance in every animal (like Testosterone). It has the same role in every animal. Minis included.

 

[kaykay]

I do wonder if we are breeding mares that will throw this problem to their daughters so we are in effect breeding the problem in??

What makes a broodmare great is her ability to carry a foal to term and then take care of that foal once its on the ground.

Im just not sure I agree with giving mares regumate to carry a foal?

I have picked my own vets brain on this and he feels the same way. He does feel that these mares have a very high chance of producing fillies that also cannot carry a foal to term.

 

[Viki]

Sorry, I've got to wade in here too. I've had mares on Regumate before, have one I started on it today in fact! The mares I've had on it before, it was a one pregnancy thing. Those mares have not required it every year to carry a foal. Those mares did not birth fillies that required it to carry a foal every year either. I have a mare that her mother required shots to GET pregnant (forever heat cycles) and then required regumate to maintain the pregnancies a couple times. This mare (product of said mare) has never had to have either and she is 14 yrs old now.

The mare I started on it today is 283 days along and has udder development. She will get SMZ's for 10 days and Regumate every day now till foaling. This will maintain the pregnancy IF THIS IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED. In other words, if there is a bigger problem, it will not prevent her from aborting. It just helps IF it's placintitus. (please excuse the spelling)

OK, I'll get back under my rock now....

Viki