Registering obvious dwarfs???

[kaykay]

wow i heard about that stallion a long time ago and there he is. he was obviously just sold again. Just amazes me that no one has gelded him yet. I feel sorry for him looking at the picture

And no i dont not think they should be registered. I know some slip thru amha but amha does reject them based on pictures

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I do think they should be registered but labeled as non-breeding. But who is going to be the final judge? I wouldn't want that job.

As for the stallion in question that prompted this thread...

If he's not a dwarf he's at least terribly disfigured and must have a terrible time getting around.

 

[shadyacersminis]

Most of the pictures on there are user uploaded, I have a few recent registrations with pictures and AMHR didnt put a single photo up on them nor did they move to the top of the list when they were added to the studbook, I had to put the pictures up.... If you load a photo to a horse, Your horse automatically goes to the first horse on the list then slowly advances down the list as other pictures are uploaded on other horses...... I just added a picture for my filly, Miss E's Island Sunset and she was just put to the top of the list...

Songcatcher, Go to horsestudbook and click on the AMHR Logo, then click on Register in the sidebar, fill out the form and submit, then AMHR will email you your username password within the next day or two....

 

[mmmorgans]

All I can say about that particular horse is sad - very sad. I feel very badly for the horse and if someone is using him as a breeding stallion - well there are no words to describe how I feel about that.

 

[Royal Crescent]

Definately a emotionally charged topic. I can see some benefit to registered a dwarf, but marking to papers to reflect it. However, who is to say that people will let the registry know that it is a dwarf. Will people be honest and register them just so you can look through the pedigrees and see who may have passed it on?

 

[Songcatcher]

Well, I finally got on. Thanks to those who replied and PMed me. Better support here than from AMHR.

Quite interesting. Horses I bought several years ago are on there and listed in my name. Horses I bought this Spring and this years foals are on and listed in my name. A horse I bought last Fall is still listed in the previous owners name. A horse I sold 2 years ago as a yearling is still listed as mine and shows to have 16 show points (I am assuming that is what SP stands for) even though I never showed her but her new owners have. OH!

 

[Matt73]

No, they should not be registered. The only reason registration is really important is for breeding and/or showing. Since neither should be done with a dwarf, why bother registering it? JMHO.

 

[Charley]

Many times we look up a pedigree of a horse before we purchase it. This information would be useful to someone deciding whether to purchase a horse from closely related bloodlines.

 

[capall beag]

That is a disturbing picture.

That poor horse looks very deformed

I am beyond shocked that he would be registered and cannot even comprehend someone using him to reproduce

 

[HGFarm]

I have not even been able to sign in to the studbook any more... does this cost money now? I never got any kind of password or anything from AMHR, only A, who has now dropped this.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Well the AMHR studbook is fun, but my goodness the information is far from correct! Talking about my own horses that is! Plus mine all have non-existant pedigrees as they come over from AMHA. NO DNA/PQ test results, no pedigree, ownership is wrong - oh well it's still fun and has great potential!

BTW didn't know I was going to bump the horse from this discussion down the list by posting photos of my gang! LOL

That horse in question he looks almost like he's broken his pelvis or something - just not right. He's been used for breeding? I don't know the breeders but what a shame if that is genetic and he was sold intact.

Now here's dreaming wouldn't it be wonderful if AMHA and AMHR's infor could be combined - what a time saver!!! I know it will never happend but I can dream!

 

[Flaxenacres]

Could someone tell me how to log on? Thanks in advance! Lorie

 

[Matt73]

Many times we look up a pedigree of a horse before we purchase it. This information would be useful to someone deciding whether to purchase a horse from closely related bloodlines.

That's a good point. Hmmmm.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As for the stallion that started this thread...OMG..poor guy. I don't know what is wrong with him ( you can also tell the picture has not been squashed or, etc. to make him look bad).

All I can say is I hope the new owner is going to geld him, get him vet care, and give him a loving home. As someone posted before, I am not even sure if he can get around good.

But, then I think well, if he was bought for a rescue horse..why did the spend the money to register him as a stallion??

I know it is a very SAD picture.

In my OPPIONION the breeder should have gelded this horse as a foal.

I also should add...if these problems did not show up as a foal ( which would be hard to understand)..he should have been gelded as soon as the problems started showing up...I don't care who owned him. He should have NEVER been sold as a stallion. This is my opinion anyway.

I'll go one further, I'm afraid.

If I had bred that horse he would have been euthanized at weaning.

If I had seen how bad he was at birth, if it had shown up at birth, I do think I might have euthanized then.

I do not believe he is a dwarf, but the awful roach back and the obvious problem with the pelvis.

Of course, we are assuming the horse can be gelded, he may be a cryptorchid, and there could be medical reasons he cannot be gelded, so just because he is entire does not mean he is being used.

I cannot see why anyone would register him, though.

For the record, Yes, I definitely think they should be registered- they should be put on a side register for Dwarfs and the breeding should be there for all to see!!

 

[shane]

i Believe there should be a register for dwarfs also.

i had a foal a year ago that i am almost sure is a dwarf,{in my avatar}

and his registration was in the process,

i have since STOPPED the REGISTRATION of him,

he is now just a pet that i will be gelding as soon as the weather changes

we all need to take responsiblaty for our horses, and take the problems out of the breeding pool

IMO

 

[Tapestry Minis]

I have to interject, and I hope this isn't too "off topic" but there are some questions here that keep nagging at me. Seems we are trying to label a single defect that may or may not be genetically linked. There are a lot of assumptions being made since there is no way to confirm by any biological tests. Do we know for a fact that this horse is the way he is due to dwarfism? Defects are not always caused by a dwarfism issue when speaking of humans...true? I am in no way condoning that this horse should be bred. To say that it is caused by "X" when we don't even know how to test for "X" is reaching. Then to assume that "X" is genetic (traceable to a certain lineage) when again there is no way to prove this.

Could something like this be caused by an injury of maybe a growth plate or???

Do we know indefinitely that this gene is ONLY carried by certain lines or does every miniature have this possibility. Without a test we can only speculate. Same as color genes. How many so called "truths" about LWO (being a recessive gene) have been dashed with testing since they have found the gene? Use to be thought that only horse possessing the "Frame" pattern would carry this gene. We have now found that a completely solid horse can still carry the gene.

If we are to go as far to say that this is genetic and without a way to test for it then we are in a way playing Russian roulette. Being that we can not tell before we breed a certain stallion to a certain mare as we now can do with the LWO gene. Since we can not tell if a horse is or is not a carrier until something is produced. There are still so many unknowns when it comes to genetics....look how coat color still stumps us.

It is well known that the closer the lineage the greater chance you have that the receive genes will be expressed. But yet we still have line breeding. Should all those people be told to stop since this can also cause defects and possibly dwarfism? For example HYPP in Quarter Horses traced back to excessive line breeding.

Just some questions that come to mind that, until we can answer, I don't feel assumtions should be made.

 

[Trinity Farm]

NO they shouldnt but who is going to decide what makes a dwarf?

Also, I havent been there to see pics. But I know some of the pics on my papers really make the horse look questionable just by the way they streched and smashed it.

I have had problemsz with the registry smashing or warping our pictures. I wish they would leave them alone OH! Amelia

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

The biggest problem with registering dwarves is that there are people that won't register them and will deny their existance, etc. So you would only have people with a bit of honesty and integrity actually registering dwarves, regardless how the paperwork was ultimately handled.

I've always been a proponent of listing in the studbook how many mares a stallion covered in a given breeding year as I would like to know and I do take that into consideration on purchasing a stallion. I mean if for example a mature stallion is bred to 10 mares every year and sires one foal - I would be curious why and have questions about that. Same mares, not enough cover time, hand vs pasture, etc. As it is now you don't know.

Sure wish AMHA was using this program to, it would make cross referencing horses much easier and getting full pedigree details!

As to Tapesty Minis concerns about ALL dwarves being classed as genetic when it may very well be other causes - I'm in full agreement there. Until there is a concrete test for testing dwarfism - and there are different types - you can't say ALL is caused by genetics or even by the same gene. I'm glad to see steps in research are finally being taken though!

 

[kayla221444]

But I know some of the pics on my papers really make the horse look questionable just by the way they streched and smashed it.

I've had the same problems with picture on the papers, I have one view of my mare that is stretched so she looks bad in the picture.

I also had a filly registered a month or so ago and the picture looks horrible, they way they smushed it and stretched it, she looks messd up!

 

[Just Us N Texas]

I have a friend who used to be extremely active in AMHA, and is still on the Board as a director. About 2-3 years ago, he was sending in his registrations. One was a very small filly, and he did some bad photos of her. AMHA refused to register her. It was decided by her pictures, she was a dwarf. She was not. He waited a few months, resubmitted her photos, and got her registered. So, yes, AMHA does try to block registration of dwarfs.