[SIZE=14pt]Im a mini breeder and I love them! I think they are exactly where they belong. I win more with these that I have now than I have before. Even my mini onlys have a t least one shetland parent or grandparent.[/SIZE]
Most of the Breeders in our Area are very welcome to the idea, we still have a few that just can't quite wrap the mind around the concept, but when they see an exceptionally well put together Miniature they always seem to ask a lot of questions. I've noticed several farms around us that decided to put a few of the Miniatures/Shetlands into their breeding programs. Hopefully they will have a lot of success with this venture.
About half my foals every year are small enough to be double registered. I like the small Shetlands as a Shetland person. I do sell quite a few to people who will eventually hardship them (my main herdsire isn't small enough for AMHR himself but he's a downsizer and with my 38 and 39 inch mares produces foals that sometimes don't go over 36! To my 40 and 41 inch mares I'm getting 38 and under too - and that's measured as Shetland not from last hair!). I like the marketablity.
We have several at our farm and love them. Even the horses from when we first started that were 1/2 Shetland sold so much better because of there movement.Ive seen here in Michigan more and more farms are getting aleast one Shetland mini to show.
Don't most people who have amhr/amha minis think they are more valuable and more marketable? I believe shetland/amhr registration makes a critter more valuable and more marketable too... and since" most" minis have shetland genes, I still can't understand why this causes such an uproar.... the secret is out of the closet for at least 20 years now!
[SIZE=14pt]I have heard the mini only people complain tho. I had one friend come to me and say that as long as we put the shetland minis in the futurities her mini only foals had no chance against them because the judges are always picking the shetlands. IT happens in regular classes too. They just have a neckier more upright look at least most of them and are more squarely built, not as long bodied...etc. I have some that are not double reg but they are still a high percentage shetland. Heck Bailey is high percentage hackney! But she measured37.25 by one of the toughest stewards on the east coast so she is also now a mini![/SIZE]
i myself love them all, shetland, mini, mini cross. But there is a lot of animosity with some mini breeders about breeding miniatures back to shetlands. Some will even tell you its a step backwards when i consider it forward. Also i have met shetland breeders that dont at all like miniatures
So that is why i was wondering what shetland breeders think of the cross. If you show amhr you have surely heard the very loud vocal complaints about shetland/mini crosses showing in miniature classes. And i agree lyn they in general have much better necks and hips
First of all let me say, I think that breeding Shetlands to Miniatures is a great idea, and could really help the miniature breed. At the same time I can understand some of what the mini people are thinking when they see Shetlands showing against minis. One thing is that the weanlings and yearling Shetlands that are shown at nationals are often very young, therefore they are much more delicate and most likely are going to not even fit into the height limits later on. The classes have height limits to try and estimate how tall the horses will be when they mature, to prevent horses that are going to end up 40" tall from being able to show. But these estimations are based on the growing patterns assuming the parents where under 38", they weren't based on the parents being over 38".
Another issue many have is that many people feel that our goal should be to breed for the smallest most perfect horse, and that breeding with horses that are so much taller is unnecessary. On top of all this, some people just don't care for the look of many Shetlands, just as many Shetland people don't care for the look of many minis. Therefore deadfast mini people are understandably annoyed when all of a sudden, what they see as a whole different breed, a breed they may not care for, starts being what they have to breed to win.
I am not saying that I agree with any of this, but I can easily see how people could. I personally have mixed feelings. I feel that somehow the height limits need to be fixed to better control who shows in the classes. I also am a bigger fan of the look of minis than I am of Shetlands. I do see thought many benefits that cross breeding the two could bring. I feel that while most Shetlands have longer legs, longer necks, smaller heads, are overall more refined, and have better movement; most minis have straighter legs, hookier necks, better shaped heads, are overall more muscled, and have more level hips. The cross of these too could be incredible.
I haven't really been much help with figuring out how Shetlands breeders feel.
But I would assume they do not care as much sense they are not really showing against many crosses.
I don't know if your stallion has any Miniature in him, but I feel that he is very close to what I would like to see the end result be of crossing Mini's with Shetlands.
I very much understand the argument about shetland crosses showing in the weanling/yearling classes against minis when its obvious they will not stay under. That is a valid complaint i think. I have been beaten by one myself and theres no way that filly was going to stay under but she was beautiful -- no doubt about it.
I understand why this is an issue with some people, especially those with falabellas in their bloodline. But lets not forget that the "miniature horse" is not a breed. "True" minis don't have the long neck or pretty head that the classic shetland has. Shetland outcrossing can only improve the miniature and the pulic opinion of them.
Saying an arabian is an arabian and a quarter horse is a quarter horse is one thing. A shetland can be a miniature and a miniature can be a shetland. All a miniature is is a bred down horse - its not a breed.
If I am showing in the American Miniature Horse Registery I want to be showing against miniature horses not shetlands. This very reason is what justifys AMHA for ony allowing 34 and under horses, imo. Just the way I see it. There is a reason their is an ASPR/ASPC and AMHR/AMHA.
First I would like to ask you how long you have been involved with the ASPC/AMHR? With the way you write you must just be a child or a youth. My dear, you need to get your head out of the sand and wake up. The AMHA broke off of the ASPC/AMHR and started their own Registry. Those AMHA horses are full of Shetland blood and you can't take it out.
The Miniature Horse will never be a "breed". It is merely a height registry just like the AMHA. When the ASPC started the AMHR they saw a need for those Miniature's that went over height. That's when the AMHR was started. The divisions were up to 34 and over 34 to 38. There was nothing wrong with those horses except sometimes their Shetland heritage came to the surface. Still does today. Why do you think so many of the AMHA people have jumped on our bandwagon with AMHR? So they can get those animals registred so they can be sold.
The ASPC has been around since 1888, a whole lot longer than the AMHA. If it wasn't for the ASPC you wouldn't have a registry for your AMHR miniatures.
The reason people started complaining about the double registererd horses is that they couldn't compete. The horses fault? No way. It just means I must be doing something right with my breeding program. Go look at Buckeye Walnut Creek Farm. All of her miniatures are Shetlands but I don't hear anyone complaining when she wins. All of your D& S ponies are full blood Shetlands from the Seth Thomas line. I guess you don't know who Seth Thomas was. I'll leave that up for you to research. "Establo" is another fine example of full blood Shetlands being bred that are staying small and winning in the show ring. How many people both AMHA and AMHR that own's one of Sandy's horses? I could go on an on. As long as this registry remains a height registry you will have lots of diversity within. By the way, my 1998 National Grand Champion "B" gelding was 1/2 Harness pony. Father was a 31" stallion and his mother was a full blood harness mare. If that horse walked by you today you wouldn't even know he was 1/2 Harness bred. You can't tell by just looking at him. If I brought out any of my horses for you to look at I can bet that you wouldn't be able to pick out what was miniature and what was Shetland. No one can. I have seen plenty of miniatures that have that same "Look at Me" attitude as the Shetlands.
I also see that you referred to the ASPC/ASPR. Do you even know what an ASPR pony is? I bet you don't. No difference than the "B" miniature in the AMHR. So before you go give your opinion please do some homework first, you might be suprised at what you learn. JMHO.
Why is it that someone must be involved in miniatures or Shetlandâ€™s for a long period of time to know anything? Ive heard this over and over again and it really gets old. I get the attitude since you have not been in it for 20 years you donâ€™t know anything. Now this is not everyone. The question wasnâ€™t how long you have been in this but what was your opinion I believe. So since I havenâ€™t been involved long enough apparently so I have no opinion.
wpsellwood---that is not what Karen is saying at all. I think (and karen pls correct me if im wrong) what she is saying is that before a person makes a blanket statement you better do a little research first and know some of the facts.
I am shocked by how many people dont understand that ASPC/AMHR was the first registry and that AMHA broke off from there. And the only time i get really upset is when a farm insists they are AMHA only and then registers their over 34" horses AMHR almost on the sly. If you are truly an AMHA only farm and truly believe that anything over 34" is not a miniature horse then why would you register it AMHR? For the money thats why.
And I am shocked by how many AMHA only breeders continue to insist that there is no shetland blood in their miniatures. And that alot of them keep acting like miniatures are a breed. They simply arent. Anything that measures 38" and under or 34 and under for amha is a miniature horse. Mini Bre i could go right now and by a shetland that measures 34 or under and hardship him or her into amha and then go compete. That horse for all intents and purposes is a miniature horse
Mini Bre is a young woman but she is very smart. But she has definately been raised in an AMHA only family farm so this is what she knows. There are I must say alot of adults that will say the same thing Mini Bre just did. I have heard it many times and it always gives me a chuckle.
The undisputed fact is as Karen said they are definately winning so there has to be alot to be said for the shetland crossed back to the miniatures. I think in the future this is going to be felt much more in AMHA as more become hardshipped in and show on the AMHA circuit.
And I am also an AMHA breeder but I also breed AMHR and own an ASPC shetland. So I am not against either registry--just want to be clear on that LOL.
edited to say i have only been in miniatures and shetlands for 4 years. I definately dont know everything and I am learing everyday. But i do read everything I can and ask questions of everyone I can so that I can continue to learn. I think the thing is to always have an open mind to ALL the possibilities