Reducing belly

[Leeana]

Do not just look at the belly, look at the horses shoulder and hip ...does that area look to be "lacking"? Normally when these horses are not getting propper nutrition the belly will be big, but the hip and shoulder will lack muscle and depth.

How much of what grain you feed is going to depend upon the grain, Purina has a long line of products. For instance, you can feed Purina Born To Win (much like the Buckeye Gro N Win product) and only need to feed maybe 1-3 cups of that a day. Then, there are other grains that the horse would need 4-8 (or more) cups of per day. So, really until we know exactly what grain you are feeding ..i dont think one can say "your not graining enough". I feed Buckeye Gro N Win last year and my horses got anywhere from 1/2 - 3 cups per day. Now, i feed purina strategy and my horses need anywhere from 3-5 cups 2x a day. I do not go by that say "horses should have 3% of their body weight in grain per day". Says who??? You cannot follow that saying

. It depends on the grain you are feeding as to how much your horses should get

. If your feeding a lessor quality product, your going to have to feed more ...but if you are feeding a higher quality produce, imo ..you should not need to feed that much. What i liked about Buckeye Gro N Win was it didnt take much grain (at all) to equal more nutrion then what you would get if feeding a lessor quality grain. If 1 cup of buckeye gro n win has more (better) nutrition in it then say, 3 or 4 cups of a lessor quality grain, which would you rather be feeding? Okay, off my soap box now

.

Anyway, post pics and im sure someone could help you out

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Just one thing I have to correct Leeana on is the Born To Win. BTW is a ration balancer, it provides the minerals/vitamins that the horse needs daily. It has absolutely NO calories to it. Depending on what your horse is doing, idle, broodmare, breeding stallion, conditioning for show, will depend on how much BTW your horse gets a day. It could be as little as 1/2 c 2x's a day to 2 or more c 2x's a day.

 

[mdegner]

Here are some pics......hope this works, never done it before ....he is an 8 month old stallion

http://www.picturetrail.com/members/edit?p...mp;gid=19541792

 

[Jill]

The pictures aren't showing up for me. They have to be online for people can see them (but they may look like they're showing on your computer).

If you want, just email them to me and I will post them here for you! [email protected]

 

[mdegner]

I know....I was trying to figure it out....they should be out there now....I hate computers

 

[Miniv]

Horses are forage eaters -- grazers......So the healthiest way to provide protein to them is with hay/alfalfa, IMO.

We've always fed according to the ratio of 1.5 to 2 percent body weight. You might try feeding approx. a pound to 1.5 pounds of high quality hay or alfalfa (2x a day), depending on how high the protein content of it is and then make up the difference with a "complete" grain designed for performance or young horses (since you said they were yearlings) .......this would include the vitamins and minerals needed.

We feed an orchard grass because our locally grown stuff is about 14% and sometimes higher. To get that percentage in a forage, some people almost are forced to feed alfalfa or a grass/alfalfa mix.

Just my two cents........That may be all it's worth!

 

[mdegner]

The pictures aren't showing up for me. They have to be online for people can see them (but they may look like they're showing on your computer).

If you want, just email them to me and I will post them here for you! [email protected]

Jill, were you able to see the pics on post #23? If not, I will email them. Thanks!!

 

[chandab]

Horses are forage eaters -- grazers......So the healthiest way to provide protein to them is with hay/alfalfa, IMO.

We've always fed according to the ratio of 1.5 to 2 percent body weight.

This is the basis of my feed program.

I feed grass hay and a ration balancer based on individual needs, with a few variations for special needs individuals (right now that would be a growth formula added to broodmare rations; and a pelleted feed added to the new guys diet while we wait on the equine dentist to make rounds this way and check his teeth).

I have all easy keepers, so don't need too many added calories for anyone; even the broodmares are doing pretty good on this basic diet.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I tried to view the photos, but it is asking for a password. I'm not a member of Picturetrail, so I can't view them.

I'm a huge fan of feeding hay and a good quality diet balancer. I have everything from babies to mature mares and a stallion on the Progressive Nutrition Grass Balancer, and during the winter when they don't have grass, my horses are also on oats or a calorie booster made by Progressive. My show horses still get quite a bit of hay, it can be done, I promise.

Below is Reflections What A Star when she was showing last year (still early in the show year so not at her peak), and she was on plenty of hay I just can't remember how much. We usually do the 1.5% of their bodyweight in hay a day for the show horses, and sometimes it is all grass hay, and sometimes it is a 50/50 mix of grass and alfalfa hay.

Reflections What A Star, 2 year old, 27.5" mare:

I personally would be scared to death to work a yearling so hard!! Mine get round penned 3 times a week, and go on a walker 3 times a week, then they get one day off.

 

[Alex]

He needs lots more feed, as mentioned. How much grain is he actually getting? And PLEASE weigh your feed. The best protien supplement I found is soybean or linseed meal. But I bet this horse doesnt need it, give him more Purina Jr., and more hay.

My 4yr old stallion is getting 2 small flakes(I have no way to weigh it) of grass hay, 1.5 lbs of Platform mini feed(slowly working up to 2 lbs) , and a coat supplement. He is looking great!

 

[Echo Acres]

Hi from next door.

Unfortunately you opened a can of worms. We have tried to follow suggestions of very respectable trainers and found that what works for one usually will not work for another. I bet you can ask a 100 people what they feed and how much and you will get a 100 different answers.

I will support you on the hay thing. Ours now have been cut back to 1/2 of flake each. We feed quality alfalfa. If we fed the 2 to 3 flakes that people are saying we would have one of two things. Horses as big as a house or very sick horses. We also exercise with treadmill and round pen, and yes include our yearlings. But we do 20 minutes round pen, or 15 minutes treadmill (still going up on that) or 10 minutes of each. We try and do this 5 days a week. We feed Omelene 200 to our show horses and our brood mare is on Purina natures essentials born to win. This gives her the vitamins and minerals she needs without too much of the grain.

I have a contact name of our local Purina rep if you want to talk to him. He is really nice and knows his stuff.

just wanted to say I noticed that our yearlings had the same trouble. They seem to grow out of it as a two year old.

 

[maplegum]

Huh! Want to talk bloated fat guts! Head over to my field and check out Willow!

I found that Bailey had a bloated belly up until he was around 12 - 14 months old, now Willow, at 7 months old, is dealing with the same issue.

Bailey's tummy just seemed to deflate all of a sudden so my guess is that it is common in the little ones. Bailey and Willow are both fed the same feed, but Willow is still bloated. I'm thinking she'll grow out of it and I'm not too concerned as I don't show.

Good luck, I really think it's trial and error.

 

[kaykay]

I agree that if you ask 20 people you will get 20 different answers. I do think equine jr is one of the best feeds you can feed a weanling/yearling. But keep in mind its a complete feed. You should not have to supplement with oats etc. Our young ones get equine jr and hay thats it. When you add in more stuff you throw off the values of the complete feed.

From my observation at nationals, congress, local shows--I have never seen horses that do not get hay(or hardly any hay). Also if you are feeding pure alfalfa you do not have to feed as much. Right now all I can get is grass hay so I have to feed more. And my girls are over division. They are both yearlings approx 34"

It is a fine balance when getting show horses ready to try and keep them happy yet keep them in show shape. Ulcers is a huge problem in show horses and I do believe restricting hay is a partial cause of that.

As far as excercise everyone has to do what they are comfortable with. I myself am not comfortable putting a yearling on a treadmill or working them too hard.

Big bloated bellies are usually a sign of lack of protein in the diet.

 

[mdegner]

Hi from next door.

Unfortunately you opened a can of worms. We have tried to follow suggestions of very respectable trainers and found that what works for one usually will not work for another. I bet you can ask a 100 people what they feed and how much and you will get a 100 different answers.

I will support you on the hay thing. Ours now have been cut back to 1/2 of flake each. We feed quality alfalfa. If we fed the 2 to 3 flakes that people are saying we would have one of two things. Horses as big as a house or very sick horses. We also exercise with treadmill and round pen, and yes include our yearlings. But we do 20 minutes round pen, or 15 minutes treadmill (still going up on that) or 10 minutes of each. We try and do this 5 days a week. We feed Omelene 200 to our show horses and our brood mare is on Purina natures essentials born to win. This gives her the vitamins and minerals she needs without too much of the grain.

I have a contact name of our local Purina rep if you want to talk to him. He is really nice and knows his stuff.

just wanted to say I noticed that our yearlings had the same trouble. They seem to grow out of it as a two year old.

Hey Renee, how you doing? Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out how to get pics out here so I sent some to one of the more reasonable responders and she indicated that she didn't really see a problem. May be a couple of pounds light but nothing to be concerned about.....Wow, what a response.....they should have an Icon out here that indicates ROOKIE so people won't be quite so brutal....I'll think twice before I try and ask what I thought was a valid question.......whew..... See you at the shows.....Mary

 

[mdegner]

Hi from next door.

Unfortunately you opened a can of worms. We have tried to follow suggestions of very respectable trainers and found that what works for one usually will not work for another. I bet you can ask a 100 people what they feed and how much and you will get a 100 different answers.

I will support you on the hay thing. Ours now have been cut back to 1/2 of flake each. We feed quality alfalfa. If we fed the 2 to 3 flakes that people are saying we would have one of two things. Horses as big as a house or very sick horses. We also exercise with treadmill and round pen, and yes include our yearlings. But we do 20 minutes round pen, or 15 minutes treadmill (still going up on that) or 10 minutes of each. We try and do this 5 days a week. We feed Omelene 200 to our show horses and our brood mare is on Purina natures essentials born to win. This gives her the vitamins and minerals she needs without too much of the grain.

I have a contact name of our local Purina rep if you want to talk to him. He is really nice and knows his stuff.

just wanted to say I noticed that our yearlings had the same trouble. They seem to grow out of it as a two year old.

Hey Renee, how you doing? Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out how to get pics out here so I sent some to one of the more reasonable responders and she indicated that she didn't really see a problem. May be a couple of pounds light but nothing to be concerned about.....Wow, what a response.....they should have an Icon out here that indicates ROOKIE so people won't be quite so brutal....I'll think twice before I try and ask what I thought was a valid question.......whew..... See you at the shows.....Mary

 

[chandab]

Hey Renee, how you doing? Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out how to get pics out here so I sent some to one of the more reasonable responders and she indicated that she didn't really see a problem. May be a couple of pounds light but nothing to be concerned about.....Wow, what a response.....they should have an Icon out here that indicates ROOKIE so people won't be quite so brutal....I'll think twice before I try and ask what I thought was a valid question.......whew..... See you at the shows.....Mary

All questions are valid, that's how we learn. The members here are just very passionate about minis, so sometimes are overzealous with their responses.

Its the truth, you will get a different answer about feeding from just about every horse owner you speak with. [And, each feed company has slightly different recommendations, but the basics are similar.] There are many good books and websites out there with information on feeding horses and horse health care.

Here are a couple of my favorite books; they aren't necessarily mini books, but horse books:

I really enjoy most of the books from Storey Publishing, here are a couple of those:

Storey's Guide to Feeding Horses by Melyni Worth and Storey's Guide to Raising Horses by Heather Smith Thomas.

Feeding and Nutrition The Making of a Champion by John Kohnke B.V.Sc., R.D.A (this one's an Australian published book, but very good).

There is also a "Horses for Dummies" book out there, and its pretty good. Don't let the name scare you off, its a decent book.

I have a rather extensive library of horse books, but these are ones that I refer to often; along with the mini books others have mentioned.

 

[muffntuf]

mdegner - please don't think your post was incorrect. You asked a valid question, but it is a huge question. You got a lot of answers and some of them heated. I did the same thing 8 months ago, but I asked different trainers around the country what their best strategy is for keeping show horses.

I won't tell you what to do, but will tell you how to maybe get there... It's trial and error. You live in one region of the country, I live in another. Hay, grain, etc. may look the same, but nutritionally isn't.

For instance, in my area, hay quality has been poor for 4 years now. Last year I had to buy from 4 different sources to make up my hay needs for the entire year. Unfortunately not all have quality. Only one of the sources was decent quality.

SO - then you have to make up the difference in the nutrients deprecation. TEST your hay, and if you don't understand what the results say, find a feed rep who specializes in the equine industry and have them translate for you. I will caution you - if the feed rep just says you need to buy this - its the wrong feed rep. If you have a good feed rep. they will interpret the results for you, ask you what you feed, know what you feed and make suggestions, even out of their feed line if need be. That feed rep will also understand what the grains around your area have for nutirional values, they buy it to mix their feeds!

Another instance - grains, this past year in our area were a bit poorer last year than the previous 3 years. So it takes a bit more oats to get the same nutritional value.

Then I recommend reading Storey's feeding horses book - its a lot to digest, but invaluable, it helps you understand horses needs, etc. and if your horses vary in activities, it helps you adjust your feed program to the individual horse.

Talk to established breeders in your area too, as well as tap into the trainers in your area our in the country. They really pay attention to individual needs of a horse.

What it comes down to is individual horse/pony. If you are showing, the big herd theory doesn't work anymore.

Hope this helps! It sounds like you have some sound advice on this.

BUT remember, it is a forum, if you post, you will get different answers - take what is valuable, release what isn't, including harsh posts.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

MuffnTuff! Excellent advice all the way around.

Hey Renee, how you doing? Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out how to get pics out here so I sent some to one of the more reasonable responders and she indicated that she didn't really see a problem. May be a couple of pounds light but nothing to be concerned about.....Wow, what a response.....they should have an Icon out here that indicates ROOKIE so people won't be quite so brutal....I'll think twice before I try and ask what I thought was a valid question.......whew..... See you at the shows.....Mary

Mary, I'm sorry if you felt you were picked on. I hadn't seen this thread as being heated at all! Everyone understands that you love your horses and are doing your best, nobody said you were evil or harming them. I'm sorry if my post in particular may have sounded that way; I certainly didn't mean it to. The only reason we picked on your feed and exercise programs was because you posted asking why your horses still had bellies- essentially you asked what was wrong with your program and we told you what we suspected. It was only meant as information and most people reserved judgment of any kind pending pictures.

Heck, I'm laughing because I suspect from what I'm reading that some people on here would think that I'm "restricting hay!"

Here I am in the "feed them more" camp and yet I only give maybe a third of a decent sized grass hay flake three times a day and others are 1/2 a flake per feeding or considerably more. So you've got to take it all with a grain of salt and realize that as MuffnTuff said, nutritional values are very different in feeds across the country and for one person 1/2 flake may barely be anything while somewhere else that might have pretty good nutritional content. That 100 different answers thing is so true and as long as it's working for you and your horses then no one has any right to criticize. We only posted alternatives because you said it wasn't working.

Good luck at your shows and I hope we didn't scare you off. LB is a wonderful place to learn if you stay open to new ideas and other opinions. You take what works for you and ask "Why?" a lot, and people will do the same with you.

Leia

 

[mdegner]

mdegner - please don't think your post was incorrect. You asked a valid question, but it is a huge question. You got a lot of answers and some of them heated. I did the same thing 8 months ago, but I asked different trainers around the country what their best strategy is for keeping show horses.

I won't tell you what to do, but will tell you how to maybe get there... It's trial and error. You live in one region of the country, I live in another. Hay, grain, etc. may look the same, but nutritionally isn't.

For instance, in my area, hay quality has been poor for 4 years now. Last year I had to buy from 4 different sources to make up my hay needs for the entire year. Unfortunately not all have quality. Only one of the sources was decent quality.

SO - then you have to make up the difference in the nutrients deprecation. TEST your hay, and if you don't understand what the results say, find a feed rep who specializes in the equine industry and have them translate for you. I will caution you - if the feed rep just says you need to buy this - its the wrong feed rep. If you have a good feed rep. they will interpret the results for you, ask you what you feed, know what you feed and make suggestions, even out of their feed line if need be. That feed rep will also understand what the grains around your area have for nutirional values, they buy it to mix their feeds!

Another instance - grains, this past year in our area were a bit poorer last year than the previous 3 years. So it takes a bit more oats to get the same nutritional value.

Then I recommend reading Storey's feeding horses book - its a lot to digest, but invaluable, it helps you understand horses needs, etc. and if your horses vary in activities, it helps you adjust your feed program to the individual horse.

Talk to established breeders in your area too, as well as tap into the trainers in your area our in the country. They really pay attention to individual needs of a horse.

What it comes down to is individual horse/pony. If you are showing, the big herd theory doesn't work anymore.

Hope this helps! It sounds like you have some sound advice on this.

BUT remember, it is a forum, if you post, you will get different answers - take what is valuable, release what isn't, including harsh posts.

Thanks, I will check out those books..... I was probably a bit thin-skinned but I'm a rookie too......we are also in MN....we are going to the fun show in Cannon Falls on May 4th so maybe we will see you......best, mary

Hey Renee, how you doing? Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out how to get pics out here so I sent some to one of the more reasonable responders and she indicated that she didn't really see a problem. May be a couple of pounds light but nothing to be concerned about.....Wow, what a response.....they should have an Icon out here that indicates ROOKIE so people won't be quite so brutal....I'll think twice before I try and ask what I thought was a valid question.......whew..... See you at the shows.....Mary

All questions are valid, that's how we learn. The members here are just very passionate about minis, so sometimes are overzealous with their responses.

Its the truth, you will get a different answer about feeding from just about every horse owner you speak with. [And, each feed company has slightly different recommendations, but the basics are similar.] There are many good books and websites out there with information on feeding horses and horse health care.

Here are a couple of my favorite books; they aren't necessarily mini books, but horse books:

I really enjoy most of the books from Storey Publishing, here are a couple of those:

Storey's Guide to Feeding Horses by Melyni Worth and Storey's Guide to Raising Horses by Heather Smith Thomas.

Feeding and Nutrition The Making of a Champion by John Kohnke B.V.Sc., R.D.A (this one's an Australian published book, but very good).

There is also a "Horses for Dummies" book out there, and its pretty good. Don't let the name scare you off, its a decent book.

I have a rather extensive library of horse books, but these are ones that I refer to often; along with the mini books others have mentioned.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

MuffnTuff! Excellent advice all the way around.

Hey Renee, how you doing? Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out how to get pics out here so I sent some to one of the more reasonable responders and she indicated that she didn't really see a problem. May be a couple of pounds light but nothing to be concerned about.....Wow, what a response.....they should have an Icon out here that indicates ROOKIE so people won't be quite so brutal....I'll think twice before I try and ask what I thought was a valid question.......whew..... See you at the shows.....Mary

Mary, I'm sorry if you felt you were picked on. I hadn't seen this thread as being heated at all! Everyone understands that you love your horses and are doing your best, nobody said you were evil or harming them. I'm sorry if my post in particular may have sounded that way; I certainly didn't mean it to. The only reason we picked on your feed and exercise programs was because you posted asking why your horses still had bellies- essentially you asked what was wrong with your program and we told you what we suspected. It was only meant as information and most people reserved judgment of any kind pending pictures.

Heck, I'm laughing because I suspect from what I'm reading that some people on here would think that I'm "restricting hay!"

Here I am in the "feed them more" camp and yet I only give maybe a third of a decent sized grass hay flake three times a day and others are 1/2 a flake per feeding or considerably more. So you've got to take it all with a grain of salt and realize that as MuffnTuff said, nutritional values are very different in feeds across the country and for one person 1/2 flake may barely be anything while somewhere else that might have pretty good nutritional content. That 100 different answers thing is so true and as long as it's working for you and your horses then no one has any right to criticize. We only posted alternatives because you said it wasn't working.

Good luck at your shows and I hope we didn't scare you off. LB is a wonderful place to learn if you stay open to new ideas and other opinions. You take what works for you and ask "Why?" a lot, and people will do the same with you.

Leia

Sounds good.....next time I'll be much more specific up front regarding the information (e.g. exactly what is fed) and highlight words like a "little bit" of a belly. Best, Mary

 

[Marty]

I'll take a stab at this but first I commend you for seeking help from those of us that have been there done that and learned from our mistakes. Keep in mind that what works for one may not be good for another, so do keep an open mind. When dealing with youngsters I do feed Purina Jr. and also it is backed up with Purina Born to Win ration balancer plus plenty of hay/grass. My yearlings do not get forced exercise whatsoever and they have no bellies and are quite fit and could be show ring ready with just a good bath and clipping. They are simply allowed to be babies and they exercise plenty on their own.

The foundation of my feeding program is hay. I feed a very good quality orchard grass hay plus I have grass pasture to offer.

You start feeding hay only by the handful and you are going to have ulcers and you may already have them from withholding adequate hay/grass; as ulcers take on many forms and one of them is extended belly. Horses naturally produce acid to the stomach and hay and natural grass grazing buffers the acid. When a horse is refused adequate grazing or forraging hay, excessive acid builds up in the stomach, which results in a gas overload thus causing an ulcer.Horses are grazers and the last thing I would be withholding is their proper amount of hay/grass. This is however not to say to allow them to go out and gorge themselves into a state of obescity which is equally as bad. A handful of hay is absolutely not sufficient whatsoever, but you must allow them grazing time of grass/hay somewhere in your daily schedules.

Also for yearlings treadmilling and round penning would be out of the question. I am completely with Leia. The only way I would be round penning is if the pen were huge such as mine is 55' and there is no sharp radius. To reduce belly bloat besides going over your feeding program consider a 5 day purge of SafeGuard.

Best wishes and good luck to you.