REALITY CHECK - KATRINA

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I am a citizen of Louisiana and of the US. I don't think that we should be blaming the President or FEMA for this. As a resident of LA I am blaming the New Orleans Mayor and the Governor of our fine state for underestimating what could happen in the inner city of New Orleans. Like any large US city there is a very bad elimate living in the inner city among some of the poorest people in the US. Some of the people I talked to down there said there were THOUSANDS of relief people/vehicles waiting to get into New Orleans. Due to lack of security they were not able to do that so that again falls to the LA and New Orleans government.

As to the animals I've heard the Coast Guard saying they are picking up pets with the people in MS. The situation in New Orleans and suburbs is different as they have limited places so far they can take these people to.

One lesson this should teach US (here on LB) as Miniature Horse Owners is to have people outside our areas we can call with trailers to help us evacuate BEFORE a disaster. I myself know that if that happened here I could not get all my horses into my trailer.

I am just sick over all of this and there is nothing we can do right now except to donate monies to the charities who can get in there to help. Our arguing will not help so please let's not continue all of this.
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Sorry for such a dimwitted response, Shirley...
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I'm not talking politics, but my strongly held beliefs...

Debi, I don't think stating strong opinions is arguing...however, I so agree that advance planning for our own animals is vital. And, as I just heard someone mention, with two enormous disasters in recent years, we as a nation really should be much more prepared -- in terms of both prevention and response. I only hope we learn from this.

I do want to add that in no way does poverty justify the looting and shooting at helicopters -- this is as unconscionable as the lack of coordinated response, and does a grave disservice to the many good people in a horrible situation.

I believe that this situation is unfathomable, far beyond what we currently comprehend. Since time is of the essence, we must welcome immediately all help being offered from other countries.

I have to add:

As far as who should be providing assistance, aid for natural disasters has been set up on a national basis in order to provide more support than any one state might be able to handle. FEMA is set up to respond after an emergency, leaving prevention and proactive response to local governments. This was a different situation, as the mass evacuation of a large city is almost unheard of, and required coordination of mayors, governors, and leaders of several states.

The best defense is a good offense, and imagination if a means had been available to inform and help evacuate the poor and infirm before the storm? This would call for more brains and cooperation than money, and would save many lives. Advance measures would also have done much to help pets and livestock.
 
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susanne said:
"this is a political genocide".
This is so tragically true...and as Lisa said, there probably would have been an entirely different response if this had been a wealthy area.

To all who have said "why didn't they leave," I am shocked and saddened -- no, I'm repulsed. HOW DARE ANYONE BELITTLE THE LIVES OF THESE PEOPLE? IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT!! Are we all little Marie Antoinettes, sitting comfortably and saying "Let them eat cake?"

As has been mentioned, most of these people had no way of getting out. You say you saw the news reports of the impending storm...so did FEMA and government bodies who knew there were many without the means to escape. Oh well, these people didn't vote Republican.

The hospitals are filled with the infirm who could not be evacuated, and now are having to deal with worse than third world medical response. In many cases, they can do nothing but let them die. Deal bodies float down the streets.

One reason our government cannot respond properly is because George the Lesser has our National Guard off fighting a stupid, pointless war, misusing our country's resources for his ego.

I'm proud of the efforts being made to help these horses, and I've never believed that people are more important than animals, but my love and concern for the innocent extends to the poor and the misbegotten.

And as you ask, "why didn't these people leave," then we also must ask, why didn't these people get their horses out of harm's way ahead of time? They saw the storm coming, too, and many organizations and individuals offered emergency shelter.

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I guess I could have expected this to turn into a political bru-ha-ha...any reason to attack the administration...well ya'll can have the thread, I was here out of respect and care for my neighbors, NOT to hear opinions on the political bandwagon side. It's easy to blame it on politics...because the true blame for the tragedy itself can't be placed...right?
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Debi, I don't think stating strong opinions is arguing...however, I so agree that advance planning for our own animals is vital. And, as I just heard someone mention, with two enormous disasters in recent years, we as a nation really should be much more prepared -- in terms of both prevention and response. I only hope we learn from this.
I do want to add that in no way does poverty justify the looting and shooting at helicopters -- this is as unconscionable as the lack of coordinated response, and does a grave disservice to the many good people in a horrible situation.
I totally agree with you there, Susanne. Just to be sure I was not misunderstood, I meant that the bad elimate is among the poor of all our inner cities. I do not think being poor justifies looting and shooting at people. It is the scum of the earth doing that which is hindering help getting into these poor inner city people.

I also agree that strong opinion stating isn't arguing cause you all know I share mine with you. I just mean that the time for political debate is later, let's put our efforts into doing something to help now.
 
DebiM said:
I am a citizen of Louisiana and of the US.  I don't think that we should be blaming the President or FEMA for this.  As a resident of LA I am blaming the New Orleans Mayor and the Governor of our fine state for underestimating what could happen in the inner city of New Orleans.  Like any large US city there is a very bad elimate living in the inner city among some of the poorest people in the US.  Some of the people I talked to down there said there were THOUSANDS of relief people/vehicles waiting to get into New Orleans.  Due to lack of security they were not able to do that so that again falls to the LA and New Orleans government.
As to the animals I've heard the Coast Guard saying they are picking up pets with the people in MS.  The situation in New Orleans and suburbs is different as they have limited places so far they can take these people to. 

One lesson this should teach US (here on LB) as Miniature Horse Owners is to have people outside our areas we can call with trailers to help us evacuate BEFORE a disaster.  I myself know that if that happened here I could not get all my horses into my trailer.

I am just sick over all of this and there is nothing we can do right now except to donate monies to the charities who can get in there to help.  Our arguing will not help so please let's not continue all of this. 
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Thank you Debi, your objectiveness is a breath of fresh air (and especially from someone who is so close to the situation)!
 
susanne said:
Sorry for such a dimwitted response, Shirley...
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  I'm not talking politics, but my strongly held beliefs...

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Ah Susanne anything for you
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but actually I wasn't referring to what you said.
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As to the animals I've heard the Coast Guard saying they are picking up pets with the people in MS. The situation in New Orleans and suburbs is different as they have limited places so far they can take these people to.
Deb, if this is the case then why o why are they not allowing those on this board that are ready to head out immediately and go and help one of our members and their minis.

I believe that this situation is unfathomable, far beyond what we currently comprehend. Since time is of the essence, we must welcome immediately all help being offered from other countries.
We are just waiting for those word "yes Canada, we need manpower help, come now".
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It has yet to happen and the offer has been made. That is why it is soooooooooo darn frustrating to us and probably other countries as well.....
 
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l think what happened was a horrible thing for both humans and animals. lf l ever should be so unlucky to have to be in the position to choose to leave my horses and save myself l know in my heart l COULDN'T and WOULDN'T be able to. Not everyone in times of coming disaster has the means or ways of getting to safer ground and it is more then SO SIMPLE for others to sit on there butts in front of a screen and state otherwise as an onlooker. Shame on some of you for saying they were warned and chose to stay life isn't just black and white there are many areas of gray we forget about.
 
DakotahMoon_Ranch said:
[i guess I could have expected this to turn into a political bru-ha-ha...any reason to attack the administration...well ya'll can have the thread, I was here out of respect and care for my neighbors, NOT to hear opinions on the political bandwagon side. It's easy to blame it on politics...because the true blame for the tragedy itself can't be placed...right? 
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Danielle,

You just can't get in there. This is like someone came in and bombed the entire gulf coast from southeast La to Alabama. The roads are not accessible in most cases and those that are open are limiting who can go in and who can't. There is no power for south Louisiana or southern MS all the way up to Jackson. I've talked to several people down there who say we just cannot imagine the conditons in the area and how hard it is to even get it. There are government officials in both states who have heard their homes are destroyed but they can't even get to them to see.

Like you I have sat here and feel frustrated, angry, sad.....you name it but we aren't there and can't see what they do.
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The situation in New Orleans is totally different than MS so hopefully there will be more help getting to all the areas of MS soon. There is one town in MS where officials JUST got into by vehicle because the bridges were destroyed. They were airlighting prior to now.......Folks, this is just unimaginable for most of us. As hard as it is let's try to be patient, save our political debates to later while we see what we can do to help.

Debi
 
Thanks Deb for your post. I am sure the roads are almost non-existent but it's difficult to understand when they won't let you at least try! That is what they are doing at the moment, trying. Then they need to at least get food and water to these people and I would think that in that area they won't have the problems of being shot at. THAT should be done NOW! It has been 4 days and yes I understand it is alot of territory to cover BUT that is why other countries have offered manpower help but it has not been accepted yet!!!!!!!!! They don't have enough volunteers to cover the areas they have to cover and if they don't allow the added help so many more will die!
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Oh and Deb, I sure am glad you are okay (hugs to you)
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I don't think there is anyone watching this horror unfold that isn't beginning to feel their nerves and their tempers fray. That comes from our helplessness.

I don't think anyone on this forum is advocating that animals receive more effort than humans at this point. In the two situations that are being focused on here the two go hand in hand. People have different ways of contributing and this group has found their way because it is something they know best. They can't go in to New Orleans and rescue people but they can go out and help a couple of farms and not impede the other efforts that are taking place. I see nothing wrong in that whatsoever.

Do I think everything that can be done in New Orleans is being done? No I don't. I know we have the Canadian Forces Disaster Assistance Relief Team (DART) ready and on standy to provide aid. Their mandate is to go in to an area and provide fresh water through their water purification system, set up and operate their field hospital, provide security to their resources, and provide other assistance with their field engineering unit. We have Naval ships loaded and ready to go and wharehouses full of drugs and other medical supplies that comprise our own disaster response inventory. The official response from DC is that they will advise if the help is needed.
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I am sure FEMA is doing the best it can under the circumstances but they lack security. I can't help but wonder though why it is possible to secure Baghdad to get relief supplies in to there but not New Orleans.
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So while I understand the frustration I do not want to see it take us down a road where it impedes what can be done by this group and it's associates such as the AMHA.
 
 



Foreign Disasters: Lessons for the Pentagon’s Homeland Security Efforts

by James Jay Carafano, Ph.D.

Executive Memorandum #979

August 29, 2005 |

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Among the issues being considered during the Pentagon's Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR)--a mandatory report to Congress on strategy, capabilities, and resources--is reassessing the military's role in homeland security. In determining what the armed forces need, recent international events offer important insights, particularly for medical support, security forces, and infrastructure protection and recovery.

Preparing for the Worst. The tsunami that struck Southeast Asia, the Chechen terrorist attack on a school in Beslan in Russia, and the destruction of critical infrastructure in Iraq are not events likely to take place in the United States anytime soon, but they are reminders that such terrible things can happen. They also hold lessons for the QDR. Each in its own way was a tragedy on an unanticipated scale. The response was ad hoc, and the results were inefficient. Homeland security challenges faced by the United States might be of similar character.

Most disasters, including terrorist attacks, can be handled by emergency responders. Only catastrophic disasters--events that overwhelm the capacity of state and local governments--would require a large-scale military response. The military should be well-organized, trained, equipped, and exercised for this type of mission. However, the Pentagon should not wait until lives and property are at stake to assess its preparation for catastrophic response.

Assigning this mission to the military makes sense. It would be counterproductive and ruinously expensive for other federal agencies, local governments, or the private sector to maintain the excess capacity and resources needed for immediate catastrophic response. On the other hand, maintaining this capacity would have real utility for the military. The Pentagon could use response forces for tasks directly related to its primary warfighting jobs--such as theater support to civilian governments during a conflict, counterinsurgency missions, and postwar occupation--as well as homeland security. Furthermore, using military forces for catastrophic response would be in accordance with constitutional principles and would not require changing existing laws.

Makeup of the Force. These forces would mostly be National Guard soldiers, troops that have the flexibility to work equally well under state or federal control. The force needs to be large enough to maintain some units on active duty at all times for rapid response and sufficient to support missions at home and abroad. For catastrophic response, three components would need to be particularly robust: medical, security, and critical infrastructure response.

Medical Units. In December 2004, a tsunami struck Southeast Asia and Africa without warning, killing almost 200,000. It was an example of the kind of destruction to expect from a catastrophic disaster. The United States does not have the capacity to mass medical assets for tsunami-level casualties. The current defense medical support available for homeland security is too small and ill-suited for the task. Rather than field hospitals that take days and weeks to move and set up, the military needs a medical response that can deal with thousands of casualties on little notice, deploy in hours, assess and adapt existing structures for medical facilities, and deliver mass care to people in place rather than moving them to clinical facilities.

Security Forces. In September 2004, a large group of well-armed terrorists held 1,181 people hostage at a school in Beslan, Russia. Hundreds died in the rescue attempt. The disastrous result illustrates the likely outcome of ad hoc military response against a large-scale terrorist attack in a civilian community.

Virtually no American community is prepared to deal with a platoon or more of well-armed and well-coordinated terrorists. Such a nightmare scenario would require a military response using specially trained and equipped personnel who are practiced at working with civilian agencies. These troops should prove equally adept at conducting counterinsurgency operations in urban terrain overseas, where neutralizing the enemy and protecting civilian lives and property are equally important.

Critical Infrastructure. In the wake of the Iraq War, U.S. forces found that years of neglect and a mounting insurgency had decimated Iraq's infrastructure. No aspect of the occupation was more ad hoc and poorly planned than efforts to reconstitute critical infrastructure. Projects were poorly managed, large numbers of contracts were let without adequate oversight, and U.S. forces did not coordinate the necessary security. The results leave little hope that the military, as currently structured, would be of much utility in restoring critical national infrastructure after a catastrophic disaster at home or overseas.

However, the means to conduct these missions are available. The U.S. military has the command, control, and security assets; the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has the capacity and expertise to manage large-scale contracts under difficult, stressful conditions; and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which frequently partners with the military for disaster response, has the expertise to conduct needs assessments and coordinate community recovery. Response teams reinforced with a large cadre of Reserve contracting officers could be paired with the Corps of Engineers and FEMA to provide an effective infrastructure protection and recovery force for disasters at home or overseas.

Force for the Future. These units would not be homeland defense forces or humanitarian peacekeeping or peacemaking troops. Military force should be used only for matters of vital national interest. That standard would apply to these units as well. They would support major operations overseas and catastrophic disasters at home.

The QDR should be used to determine the precise number of the forces that are required and how they can be established by converting the existing Cold War force structure into units that are appropriate for new missions overseas and at home.

James Jay Carafano, Ph.D., is Senior Research Fellow for National Security and Homeland Security in the Kathryn and Shelby Cullom Davis Institute for International Studies at The Heritage Foundation.
 
It is very true that they can't have people swarming in, perhaps creating more of a problem; however...

They could help a great deal if they were to provide backup support, for example filling in at home for those emergency workers who are already on site.

Fire departments regularly send firefighters to fill in at departments that are out on a call. Thus someone is there in case a local emergency comes up.

Outside support could also help outside the disaster site by providing medical care and coordinating shelter for all of those who still need help.

As overwhelming as the immediate disaster zone is, it is the tip of the iceberg. Much help is needed in less obvious ways, and outside help would be an enormous boon.
 
I think most people are donating to people and to animals. I know I am. I am donating to the Red Cross now that my company has set up the matching funds program, and I am spot donating to certain rescue efforts for the families of the organizations I am a part of. In this case, the AMHA.

As a general rule, I think it is very important that people donate to those things that call their hearts. I do donate to some human charitable organizations, but most of my donation money goes to help animals and also to help with environmental causes. It is what calls ME.

I personally feel that ALL life is sacred. Would I rescue my child or husband before my dog or horse...yes. Would I rescue the child or the dog if they were both swirling down a river? I would of course grab the child first. However, I shouldn't be made to feel bad or looked down upon because the charity of my choice is one that saves animals or purchases/restores wild habitat.

It all counts. What counts is that we care.
 
I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, but I saw that hurricane on the news for days, each time getting bigger & bigger .... To me that’s a sign!!  HELLO?! If a massive hurricane is coming your way & everyone is telling you to leave, do you sit around & wait? No, Leave! This happens ever year(hurricanes) so why do some people know better & stay?!
I have seen comments like this across the internet... and even heard two people discussing it at the grocery store... with their loaded carts, snacking, and saying basically that if you stayed there you got what you deserved for being so stupid...

AAAAAARRRRGGHH!!!

It irks me to no end when people say TOO BAD SO SAD = you were told to evacuate - you didn't. UNBELIEVABLE. People were not bussed out en masse or flown to safer places - they had to leave on their own for the most part... and MANY could not do that. They did not have the means... or could not leave family members etc. How dare people find fault with them for a situation that may have been out of their control....

Rabbitfizz... do not be hard on that rescued man - rescuers CANNOT take dogs. They probably had to ask him to leave the dog behind. Condemning someone you do not know for a situation you are not involved in.... and have no idea of the horrors involved - not just from newspapers or the TV... is not fair.

Another thought - a horse trailer could hold endless supplies - or even people who may have no other way of getting out of the devastated zone... just sayin'.... but getting in there at this stage may be well-nigh impossible... as roads are gone or closed... and access will be strictly controlled...

We are just waiting for those word "yes Canada, we need manpower help, come now".  It has yet to happen and the offer has been made. That is why it is soooooooooo darn frustrating to us and probably other countries as well.....
TWO DAYS ago shipments were ready to go from Canada to LA and MS and Homeland Security had to approve. Canadian Red Cross was allowed into some areas, apparently. Canada has already committed assistance and support...
 
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The true REALITY CHECK we all should be looking at, since there is little we can do to help at this point, is to have a disaster preparedness plan.

Practice and go over it with your family, your friends, and includ every scenario you can imagine!

Make certain that every person who is able knows rendezvous points, communications plans as well as that "last resort" choice. Include the animals, but also let everyone know the alternatives, if there is a choice to be made as to humans vs. animals (how awful, but realistic...that man who left his poor dog may have been a father of small children, the only provider, etc., he probably did not want to leave the dog, he had to), etc.

Be prepared and know what to do "in case"

Let's just hope that soon widespread help will be available to all who need it. The area obviously was sadly lacking in preparedness, and the local governments are most likely to blame more than anything. They knew their situation and they did not plan accordingly. People are suffering for it.

My thoughts are with all who are without the basic means to survive, and I wish that I could use my own resources to help.

Liz M.
 
DebiM said:
I am a citizen of Louisiana and of the US.  I don't think that we should be blaming the President or FEMA for this.  As a resident of LA I am blaming the New Orleans Mayor and the Governor of our fine state for underestimating what could happen in the inner city of New Orleans.  Like any large US city there is a very bad elimate living in the inner city among some of the poorest people in the US.  Some of the people I talked to down there said there were THOUSANDS of relief people/vehicles waiting to get into New Orleans.  Due to lack of security they were not able to do that so that again falls to the LA and New Orleans government.
As to the animals I've heard the Coast Guard saying they are picking up pets with the people in MS.  The situation in New Orleans and suburbs is different as they have limited places so far they can take these people to. 

One lesson this should teach US (here on LB) as Miniature Horse Owners is to have people outside our areas we can call with trailers to help us evacuate BEFORE a disaster.  I myself know that if that happened here I could not get all my horses into my trailer.

I am just sick over all of this and there is nothing we can do right now except to donate monies to the charities who can get in there to help.  Our arguing will not help so please let's not continue all of this. 
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Excellent post, Deb. Thank you!

MA
 
From what i understand most people are blaming the Media. How many times has the Media have called wolf. Most people just didn't believe that it would be this bad. With hurricanes you just never know where exactly they are gonna come ashore at. and from what I understand alot of folks that live in New Orleans, don't have vehicles. If you don't have the money how can one rent a car and get out? This people were and still are at the Mercy of us. ALL OF US!! Sure their is a bad apple in every city, I don't care what size it is. And true the looting and shooting going on their is uncalled for.. But if you were stranded their in the heat, and devastation and your kids need water to survive. I can tell you I would be the first one to knock out a window to get a bottle of water. Tell me who wouldn't. And if you were the man caught up on the roof of that house with your dog, and they refuse to take you dog, would you stay? You would have to truly be in that man's shoes to answer that question. You got to remember it has been days now, they have no food no water and it's so hot. I cant imagine being in that postition!! Dead bodies are starting to surface now, floating in the water. God Almighty, how much more can these people take?

I truly believe that it's not going to be much longer for us here! I know that will totally cause some debate. I think the Lord has had it with us all. And he has finally decided he needs to come back. I can tell you, that I welcome it.
 
I belive that the people need to helped first.... yes it is very sad that animals are suffering. But as we cry over he little doggy on the side of the road or pony with no hay, over 2 feet is a human waiting thier turn to get on the next bus... maybe he or she is sick and for sure hungry, hot and thirty too. They need help too....

The dog is on the roof... but there are still people waiting on roofs too.

And we need to write AMHA to get help for horses!! Come on people!

I wrote CNN and asked how can the even think of showing that.... plea for your fellow man not the horses...

GOD is watching.
God IS watching...and he wants each of us to do what we can. I am not a trained emergency response person- I cannot rescue people nor would I be allowed into the area to do so. But I DO know horses and dogs and cats and could be of some help rescueing them if I were close enough. As it is, I am not and I cannot personally do a thing to affect the situation there besides pray.

But I CAN give to the American Red Cross and other human rescue organizations- and I have. And I CAN take the time to support those who are closer and can make a difference. I don't bother to write emails pressing for human aid because the government is already focused on helping them, supposedly. (I won't go into my disgust over their inaction.) At least some people are getting on buses, are getting pulled off roofs, are getting out of there. NONE of the animals are.

Therefore, I put my effort towards the animals. Many are waiting to help the people.

Leia

Edited to add: My hat is off to those who said it so much more eloquently then I did. And you are all right- the important thing is not casting blame (and I wince when I see posts saying "No, we shouldn't blame them....we should blame THEM!" We shouldn't be blaming anyone. It's too late for that.) The important thing is making sure we help those in need, both two and four legged, and doing our best to make sure this does not happen again there or anywhere. That means both personal preparedness at the family level and political preparedness at the government level. My prayers are with us all.
 
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