Re: Frankie's post about showing R minis

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Since Frankie was talking about showing AMHR minis against ponies, and the discussion ensued that minis really ARE ponies. I read 3 out of 5 pages of responses but didn't come across this:

So, imagine this. It happens a lot, actually. I've come across it & so have other breeders I know:

Someone stops to see your miniatures at your home or at a show. They love them, but they ask you "So, what's the difference between them & ponies, I mean, besides the height?" What do you tell them?

Just curious.........really, what would you tell them? Sometimes they're looking for a justification of them being registered as "miniatures;" sometimes they're looking for a justification of the price. Does telling them miniatures are under a certain height do it for them?

Thanks. - k

(definitely not trying to start a rift between pony-owners & mini-owners. We all love our little ones)

 

[crponies]

I guess I would tell them that they are miniatures because #1 They do meet the height requirement and #2 They are registered as such.

 

[Mona]

Basically I tell them they come from bred down ponies, but although I have not had much experience with Ponies, I have heard they have much better temperments. Then the people usually go on to tell me all about the ill-mannered so and sos they had as kids etc.

Personally, I have only ever owned on Miniature that was also registered ASPC. She was 100% Arenosa...a Diablo daughter, and she is to this day, the ONLY "Mini" I have ever owned that has threatened to kick me when being caught. I won't put up with that type of behavior, and I sold her. She was a VERY refined 36.25" pinto mare....very pretty girl, but could be nasty if you wanted something from her.

No, I am not saying all ponies are like this, as obviously not all are, but this was my only experience with an ASPC pony, and not a good experience.

 

[Tabitha]

I tell them "technically they are small ponies"

I recently had a call from someone wanting an oversize miniature for their daughter to ride. They wanted a Miniature because "Miniatures are better natured than ponies". Hmm. Since Miniatures DO have their roots in the Shetland breed, and since there is so much pony in so many of the Miniatures--as was mentioned on the other thread, there's Rowdy, Gold Melody Boy & many other Shetlands that are "big" in the Miniatures. And for every big name, popular, well known Shetland that appears in the Mini pedigrees there are probably 1000 "unknown" Shetlands in the Mini registry. After all, years back when it was all the thing to promote minis as "horses" and not as "ponies", people didn't admit that their Minis were actually Shetlands. No doubt there are many that "lost" their Shetland papers when they got registered as Minis. Besides Shetland there are Welsh ponies & I'm sure other pony breeds that have been incorporated into the Miniatures. There are also many grade ponies of unknown parentage that got registered as Miniatures. While there is no doubt some big horse blood in some of these, a good lot of them were certainly pony--in view of all this. I fail to see any difference in temperament between Miniatures and ponies. I've personally never had a problem with ponies and their temperaments so I was a bit amused at this person's belief that there was a huge difference.

But no, I do tell people that size is the major difference. Depending on the person, I may explain that Miniatures (many of them) are more leggy & refined than the old 'pit pony' type of Shetland pony we're used to seeing around here, but in comparison to the American shetlands that they'll see in the show rings and magazines, Miniatures are smaller and often not quite so fancy moving.

As far as I'm concerned, they are ponies, though some are certainly more horse like than others.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I have been asked what the differences are between Shetlands and Miniatures but I have never had them say just ponies. In my cases I tell them some miniatures do have some Shetland blood in them but not necessarily all do.[such as the Fallabellas] I explain to them that Miniatures were bred from the smallest horses the early breeders could come across because their goal was [and standard says it should be the same today] to produce the most perfect horse in miniature. Along with that came some very lovable dispositions and pretty horses.

I also tell people there are height restrictions and they can see for themselves how wonderful they are. Mary

Since Frankie was talking about showing AMHR minis against ponies, and the discussion ensued that minis really ARE ponies. I read 3 out of 5 pages of responses but didn't come across this:
So, imagine this. It happens a lot, actually. I've come across it & so have other breeders I know:

Someone stops to see your miniatures at your home or at a show. They love them, but they ask you "So, what's the difference between them & ponies, I mean, besides the height?"  What do you tell them?

Just curious.........really, what would you tell them?  Sometimes they're looking for a justification of them being registered as "miniatures;" sometimes they're looking for a justification of the price.  Does telling them miniatures are under a certain height do it for them? 

Thanks. - k

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[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

personally I tell them they are all ponies - some are reg shetlands and some that are smaller are reg minis anything 38 and under can have mini papers (doesnt mean they do) and pretty much leave it at that I dont get into the shetland or not shetland at all just that a pony is ANY thing under 14.2 and a mini must be 38 or under

 

[Cathy_H]

A gentleman asked me that last weekend at the Kentucky State Fair. I told him I guess someone thought calling them miniature horses sounded more glamourous than calling them ponies.

 

[Miniv]

That has happened to me. And I've told them -- there's really not a lot of difference.

The Shetlands we own are still considered "miniature" because of their height and they are registered in one of the miniature horse registries. However, because of their known pedigree, they are also able to be registered as Shetland.

The miniatures that are soley registered in the height registries, although all of them have at least some known Shetland line in them there are some lines we don't know the origins of.

MA

 

[hhpminis]

I too tell people that minis are resstricted by a hieght limit lower than shetlands. And also that miniatures have several breeds in their lines where as Shetlands must be pure bred.

 

[horsefeather]

Well, what the heck! To stop all this wondering, let's just call EVERYTHING a shetland. We can have Miniature Shetlands, Classic Shetlands, Modern Shetlands, Too Tall For Anything Else Shetlands, etc..

I know, I was told to keep quite....OK, going now.

Pam

P.S. I WILL NOT call my Miniature Horses, Ponies....sorry!!!!!! If I had wanted to raise Shetlands, that's what I would have bought...now I know, 'there's so much Shetland blood, blah, blah, but lots of that is getting further and further in the background! And temperment...don't even get me started!!

I Know, I know, but just MHO

 

[runamuk]

Well, what the heck! To stop all this wondering, let's just call EVERYTHING a shetland. We can have Miniature Shetlands, Classic Shetlands, Modern Shetlands, Too Tall For Anything Else Shetlands, etc..  I know, I was told to keep quite....OK, going now.

Pam

P.S. I WILL NOT call my Miniature Horses, Ponies....sorry!!!!!! If I had wanted to raise Shetlands, that's what I would have bought...now I know, 'there's so much Shetland blood, blah, blah, but lots of that is getting further and further in the background! And temperment...don't even get me started!!

I Know, I know, but just MHO

You are entitled to your opinion....

I am entitled to mine

PONIES are not ALL shetland......for instance Welsh have 4 divisions 3 of which are ponies and one which is often horse sized YET they are ALL called Welsh PONIES

then there are countles other breeds of PONIES that have their own registries and honestly might be just as offended to know someone might think they have anything in common with miniatures

Many breeds of PONIES went into the formation of the miniatures .....shetlands are typically the smallest pony breed but do not hold the market on small animals to be used for downsizing

Shetland due to small size and alot of brains have earned a reputation of being snots....well any horse handed to children and then not supervised or guided will develop nasty habits to get out of work

The cowboys around here find the miniatures to be ill tempered snotty creatures of no use because YOU CAN'T EVEN RIDE THEM ...and many were hard pressed to believe mine weren't just small shetlands...or other small ponies because they had/have manners and mini's DON't........

I tell people the truth that the miniature horse is merely a downsized pony of not always known heritage and then registries were formed to create a market for these creatures........just like darn near every other registered equine in existence

 

[CountryHaven]

I also find it quite funny that when someone mentions 'pony' the most common response is usually that they mean shetland... and equally funny is that usually 'they' do, and those that ask that are usually fairly uniformed, and really do think 'shetland' when they think 'pony'.

I simply say that although there is a vast shetland influence in the majority of miniature horses, there is an equally vast number of other pony breeds, and in some instances horse breeds, that have gone into the creation of these little horses, and although the original goal was simply small, in recent times the goal has become phyisical perfection, and the most 'horse like' build possible inside the perameters of height that the breed requires.

I also agree with runamuk that the 'nasty' shetland temperment has a lot more to do with the general way those animals were treated than it's temperment itself. It wouldn't be too hard to find a bad temperment in any breed of horse, OR pony under those types of circumstances.

 

[shminifancier]

I like to say they are ponies after all they are pony size. And the Shetland I had was part Welsh.. What a nice pony that was for sure...Wish I could find another one like my Patchwork Josher from Patchwork Ponies in Janesville, Wisc. And that is the one that I hauled to AZ. and then back again to Wisc. I would drive him him and he is also the one that I housebroke, and would give rides not only in my suburban but for 5 years in the back seat of my '67 Chevy Impala~!! now that was a Full Back seat

 

[Minimor]

I just shrug & say they are small ponies--after all, that's what they are, be it Shetland, Welsh, Falabella or whatever European pony breeds may be in there. Even if there is some big horse mixed in, they're still primarily pony breeding---doesn't matter if for 10 generations their pedigrees say "Miniature Horse", if they came from pony stock they're still ponies, plus they are ponies by size alone. That's how I see it.

As for the Minis having better temperament than "ponies", I've never known an evil tempered pony. I've met a few that took advantage of their owners...the only "problem" with them? They were smarter than their owners!

I figure you can't blame the pony if his owner isn't clever enough to stay ahead of him!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I know you guys have a HUGE problem with this Pony versus Horse thing, which is one of the reasons I have stayed out of all these threads so far. I do not have this problem as the horse breeds over here have a completely different look to them and could not be confused with true Pony breeds- of which we have many. First off let me put one thing straight, just nit picking, and for the record!!

Welsh Ponies are Sections A &B Sec C is "Welsh Pony of Cob Type" Section D is Cob- NOT "Ponies" you see- you do not seem to have Cobs so it is not in your vernacular- but they are NOT Ponies!! OK off Welsh Soapbox and onto the actual question. Falabellas were bred from Shetlands, just as every attempt at Miniature Horses were bred, originally, from Shetlands. I only have knowledge of the UK Shetlands in the breed, but I understand they also bought up an almost entire stud of American Shetlands, too. If you actually saw a real Shetland, you would understand why, over here, we wish to disassociate ourselves form the breed. The American Shetland (and I still have NO idea why you call it that- why on earth you did not claim it as the American Show Pony that it really is , is beyond me, but, there!!) has nothing to do with a Shetland Pony any more, it is a beautiful, elegant animal, and the smaller version, to my eyes at least, is a Miniature Horse, why are you arguing, it's we who have the real problem as we cannot Miniaturise our breed of Show Pony (which is exquisite) because they have already gone about as small as they can get, at 44", without having their legs collapse!! If I am asked the difference I start by asking them the difference between a Dobe and a Labrador- short answer, different breeds, about the same height, that's the only real resemblance!! My Horses resemble Horses in outline, they do NOT resemble Ponies, which have a different outline, as you will see if you look at the different breeds against, say a Show Hunter or a Show Hack- which over here are breeds, not Show Classes!! I'm afraid that, to outside eyes, the majority of American Shetlands do resemble Horses, not Ponies. There actually is a LOT more to being a Horse or a Pony than height, which is a relatively new thing and has changed a couple of times, height wise since I was a child.

Right, that's my take on it, I always have and always will, breed Miniature HORSES, I have bred real Shetlands and I did not like them, I decided to breed Miniatures, and that is what I have done for 25 years. I have not yet achieved my goal but I've still a few years left before they bury me, so I do hope I shall get there and achieve our Societies breed standard- "A true Horse in Miniature"

 

[CountryHaven]

I would like to backtrack on my answer above.

You see, I answered it from my current perspective. After much thought I remembered what I used to think about miniature horses, and began to give a little more credit to outsiders questioning the breed. I remember some 6 or so years ago, my impression of miniatures (of what I'd seen on rare occassions, and without any research into it, just a common horse person who'd seen on here or there)-it was a very tiny beast that resembled a very hairy hot dog. Short stumpy legs, often crooked, large course head, long body, big belly... ring any bells? And how often do we lament on here that we've seen some side-show exhibition at a fair, or carnival, or petting zoo type thing where a dwarf was presented as a miniature horse to the general public? And my mind flashes a bit to the occassions I've had where someone has come to my farm and remarked that 'these certainly can't be miniature horses, they look like ponies... or even some say horses', but not miniature horses.

Then I remember back to about 5 years ago, sitting in the stands at our local fair during the draft horse halter classes where a special class had been inserted for miniature horses. I remember, in general being quite shocked myself to see some rather lovely... yes, my first thought was 'miniature arabs'... being presented. Along side them were some less 'refined' animals, but overall, NOT the stumpy, misformed, course little animals that I'd catagorized minis as from previous experience.

So... a general confusion, along with seeing an animal that perhaps doesn't fit their 'minds-eye' perception of a miniature horse, may all come into play when someone approaches us and asks, well if THIS is a miniature horse, what is the difference between them and a 'pony'.

 

[capall beag]

This is very confusing to me!

I certainly thought that minis were what Rabbitfizz said "True Horses in Miniature", wasn't that the idea??

I am just curious, why do mini's cost more than ponies of the same height or is that just a marketing thing? Is the whole Miniature Horse thing just a marketing tool to sell really little ponies that cannot be ridden?? I am NOT being sarcastic, I am confused. I always told people the above statement "True....." BUT maybe not?

I grew up in Ireland with lots of types of ponies and shetlands were always the naughty little ones, I got bucked off a half dozen shetlands! I didn't think I was buying a shetland when I bought my mini's becasue I really don't like shetlands, as a breed( I mean the ones found in Britain and Ireland) not the fancy, leggy American one.

Did I unknowingly buy a shetland??

Kind of funny if I did!

 

[runamuk]

Welsh Ponies are Sections A &B Sec C is "Welsh Pony of Cob Type" Section D is Cob- NOT "Ponies" you see- you do not seem to have Cobs so it is not in your vernacular- but they are NOT Ponies!! OK off Welsh Soapbox and onto the actual question.

I actually know all of that however since most people on this board seem convinced the only pony out there is shetland I was using the welsh as an example of a breed that has ponies to horse sized animals and yet they do not consider the TERM pony to be bad......

hope you feel better and I do actually know what a cob is and over here (to the majority of people on this forum) they would consider them a cresty necked overly fat horse that looks ready to founder any minute........I happen to love section c welsh ......I also am a fan of dales, fells, fjords, and all the other drafty/cobby/cresty ponies.......

 

[LaVern]

Go to the Well they used to say. My best stuff all decends from one little old white mare. She has got to be 30 years old now and her name is Whitie. She is a grade- Welsh- Shetland and-(the old guys I bought her from 19 years ago said a little Arab in there too.) One of her daughters produced the 98 National Grand Champion A mare, Who later when hardshipped into AMHA won a bunch National AMHA titles. I love that Welsh. Renee

 

[LaVern]

I am not sure of this, and I am sure that someone else would know moreabout it. But, I think that at the same time that there was the hackney introduced into the Shetland it was okay to use the Welsh too. I remember seeing the Welsh ponies adverized in the Journals.

I know of a few farms, that think I can see the influence. Renee