Razored faces

[GypsyMoonMinis]

Before anyone flames me, I am making this post out of sincere curiosity.

It appears to be quite common with minis and Arabians to razor the eyes and muzzles and remove eyelashes. It is simply my opinion that this looks unnatural and in some cases even rather gross, giving the appearance that the horse has a skin condition, with the extreme oil making it even worse. I do however enjoy a nicely clipped head, clipped ears and shiney eyes and muzzles with the guard hairs removed (but only for show purposes, otherwise I leave my horses long)

I want to ask those that support and practice razoring why exactly this is? Do judges prefer horses like that? Does it make the eye or muzzle appear differently than one only clean shaven with a 10 blade? Whats the advantage over a natural look? How do you deal with flies or sunburn?

Razoring has been banned in the arab world, but many people still do it regardless and the rule is never enforced. If AMHA/R were to initiate such a ban, would you change your grooming methods or continue to do so and why?

Ultimately I guess I just don't understand the practice and would like to know the reasoning for such. Thank you all in advance

 

[susanne]

No flames here...I've always thought razoring looks like like scar tissue -- making the horse look like a burn victim.

Many, many mini owners agree, and at least one judge that I know finds it repugnant.

I'm with you that a closely clipped muzzle looks much better.

As for banning the practice, however, I'd prefer to see higher placement given to horses without razoring and excessive clipping, all else being equal.

 

[kaykay]

ASPC did pass a rule that you cannot razor Shetlands above the muzzle. I agree that every year it gets more extreme. I have seen minis now with their entire head razored.

Drives me nuts when you see the ones with cuts all over their muzzles from being razored. I really dont know why some think they look so good with no hair. Even the body clipping is getting too extreme. Most razored show horses do not go out of the stall during daylight so they dont burn or fade from the sun. I will say it does grow back in very quickly. I hate eye lashes removed.

 

[georgiegirl]

I was just at a "clipping" clinic yesterday.

It was the general opinion that razoring does not look good and should be abandoned.

JMHO opinion is that if one of the top winning trainers (not just in miniatures) does something different, and they win, then all others will follow suit. That is where a lot of extreme fads get started.

What is wrong with the miniatures having nicely clipped heads, with a 10 blade, and the general body clipping if needed? They are not Arabs, so why are we trying too make them look that way? Is it so bad to have them be the happy little guys they are meant to be?

 

[minimomNC]

Well guess I will be the other side then. I love the look of a good facial. I think it shows more of the contours of the face, expecially with a smaller muzzle. If done correctly it does enhance. As for the entire head, if you saw that then it was someone who didn't know what their doing. You razor the muzzle and above the eyes and the rest is blended with clipping. We don't put on a ton of goop, barely a drop the size of a quarter for the muzzle and above the eyes. As for flies and sunburn, our show horses are in stalls with fans during the heat of the day, when they go out its much cooler and no sun, they enjoy being outside at night and under their fans during the day. And for those that think different, I have a fan that blows into my indoor arena where my mares has access to for shade and of the entire arena, they stand right in front of the gate where the fan blows on them.

And if the judges and trainers truly didn't like it, they wouldn't place it or do it. Most people follow what the big trainers are doing, so if they stopped, everyone would. We have tried just a close clip, I don't think it looks finished. Again this is what I like, Its what we do, it doesn't matter to me who likes or dislikes it. Until someone else pays my show bills, we will continue to present our horses this way.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The AHS over here has recently disallowed this...they had tried actively discouraging it but it did not work, so they have ruled it out and there is a strong warning on the website saying the rule will be stringently enforced!

So, not even Arabs.

I do not like it at all, but I do think it is a bit silly to pass a rule against it (except the eyelash removal, it is common sense that this should not, on welfare grounds, be allowed) If the Judges feel it is gruesome, why are they putting up horses shown this way?

Why not merely not put up razored horses?

Once they stopped winning, they would stop doing it.

At a show yesterday both my boys were shown as best suited the horse .....no, that is not 100% true as my Appy was clipped and I would have preferred to have shown him in full coat but, well, let us just say do not trim a horse when you are bone tired and you have the clippers with the surgical blades by mistake, as you will end up having to clip the whole horse!!

Back on subject, he was not razored on his face but he was close trimmed and oiled. He looked good.

The horse that beat him, also Appy, was not razored, and he looked good, too.

There was a black horse that was razored and covered in "gloop" and, honestly, it turned me off, it really did.

Even so, so long as the horse does not suffer, I think it is individual choice, or should be.

 

[~Lisa~]

Everyone has their own opinion as to what looks good including Judges. I think a proper facial looks good and frankly not much difference then clipping in a 50 blade-

Luckily it is like most other things in life - if you do not like it - dont do it- you may win or not and in reality it might or might not be due to the way you clipped your horses muzzle

Very few people clip or razor their horses and then leave them out in the sun unprotected. The life of a top show horse is really pretty pampered

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I like the look on dark horses. I DON'T like it on a white or light gray, it looks too odd.

I do razor my bay gelding- mostly because he is a gold bay that turns dark with clipping, but his muzzle stays mealy! Looks AWFUL! Clipping with 50s doesn't get all the color off, so he gets razored.

Lucy

 

[Mominis]

I want to ask those that support and practice razoring why exactly this is? Do judges prefer horses like that? Does it make the eye or muzzle appear differently than one only clean shaven with a 10 blade? Whats the advantage over a natural look? How do you deal with flies or sunburn?

I like the natural look for day to day, but I'd never enter a beauty contest without 'nighttime' makeup on and I don't expect my horse to do so. I don't have to worry about sunburn as my horse's skin is dark. I would never razor on light skin. Flies aren't a problem either. I have a fly spray system in his stall, he goes out in a fly mask, and I use DeoLotion on his face when he goes out. That is the best stuff in the world for keeping flies off.

Razoring has been banned in the arab world, but many people still do it regardless and the rule is never enforced. If AMHA/R were to initiate such a ban, would you change your grooming methods or continue to do so and why?

Yes I would continue to razor rgardless of the rule change, I'd just do it with more subtlety. I like the look and when well blended, it enhances the features. I think that initiaing such a rule would just give the judges and stweards something more to police. The practice in not harmful to the horse, is not a congenital weakness, and therefore shouldn't matter either way in halter. It boils down to the fact that I show for fun and grooming is half the fun.

And if the judges and trainers truly didn't like it, they wouldn't place it or do it. Most people follow what the big trainers are doing, so if they stopped, everyone would. We have tried just a close clip, I don't think it looks finished. Again this is what I like, Its what we do, it doesn't matter to me who likes or dislikes it. Until someone else pays my show bills, we will continue to present our horses this way.

Well stated.

 

[~Lisa~]

At this point we have bigger issues in our registries and more things that truly do need to be policed such as ... HEIGHT rather then worry who razored and who did the horse in a 50 blade

 

[MiLo Minis]

I like the look on dark horses. I DON'T like it on a white or light gray, it looks too odd. Lucy

Razoring is meant to mimic the "bloom" that occurs naturally on healthy horses on pasture in the summer. I agree that the really black shiny muzzles on grays that have been razored and it is not blended well looks really odd but the funny thing is that my grey mare on pasture has the most "bloom" of any of my horses and it looks really pretty on her. Stalled show horses don't "bloom" the way a pastured horse does.

 

[Shadows Fire]

If it actually looked like a horse that has a summer bloom on it it would be one thing but it is taken to an extreme that is no longer pretty. I don't like it on the arabs either, and to be honest I like then natural, no bridle path or clipped ears. Maybe a slight trimming of the long hairs but thats about it. Here is my arab mare with just a bridle path. I have let it grow out now. See even in short coat and in plenty of "bloom" she doesn't have the shiny black skin.

 

[miniwhinny]

No flames from me. I'm 100% in agreement. I find it very unattractive to look at.

 

[Little Hooves]

I pretty much don't like how razoring looks, so I don't do it.

My preference in how a horse should look is with a natural summer coat and the longer hairs shaved to blend in, no bridle path, etc - I like all-natural. But of course, the judges hated that and my horse did not place - we were told specifically with this as a reason. The crazy thing about that is, the rule book allows you to show a horse in full coat, but he told us we needed to clip differently to do better. I really don't like how objective competitions like showing can be, so I don't really put much stock into it.

I do think that it is cruel to clip eye lashes. Eyelashes are the eye's defense against dust and sunlight... why remove them? I have also heard rumors of resulting eye injuries because the horse jerked its head into the blade. - and shaved eyelashes shouldn't be the winning difference, anyway. That would be just sad!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Razoring is meant to mimic the "bloom" that occurs naturally on healthy horses on pasture in the summer. I agree that the really black shiny muzzles on grays that have been razored and it is not blended well looks really odd but the funny thing is that my grey mare on pasture has the most "bloom" of any of my horses and it looks really pretty on her. Stalled show horses don't "bloom" the way a pastured horse does.

My grey Arabian would get that gorgeous black muzzle, too.

What I should have said was the ill razored jobs over the eyes really wants to make me

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I don't razor simply because I CAN"T. I don't have the skill and the one horse I attempted it on looked terrible. (its much harder than it seems at least for me) Since I show in a very limited number of shows I made the decision to not razor and also not to clip ears clean. I live in a area with a great number of bugs in spring/summer and I must either protect the ears with masks and ointments or leave the protection nature supplied. I choose the later. Does this hurt me in the show ring? You BET! I have very nice horses who place much lower than they should in halter classes because I've decided their comfort is more important than a ribbon. If I went to multiple shows every season it could be worth it to clip and razor (I suppose even I could learn how) and do the extra work involved in keeping them comfortable afterwards. Done well I like the look and I believe in spite of the protests to the contrary most judges also like it. I believe they see it as an exhibitor thinking their horse is good enough to be worth the extra effort. JMO

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

As I was reading your replies something occurred to me, something which I've thought a lot about in the big horse world. I find it extremely sad and misguided for a well clipped horse to beat out a natural horse. If the well clipped horse had better conformation, you bet! But if that horse that was left more natural lost DUE to their clipping... that's just sad. Obviously horse judging is subjective. I can remember my horse judging class back in college and we really had to pour over our reasoning for WHY this horse won over that. We had ot memorize and study anatomy and know various breed builds inside and out and judge each horse accordingly....

What happened to that? IN almost every breed horses are judged on thier cosmetics and the breeders name or horses pedigree instead of on the individual animal. Not only is this a disgusting practice, it encourages poor breeding habits and extreme cosmetics (think soring for example in saddlebreds). IN the arab world, the 'halter' horse type (think Psyche is you know arab bloodlines) was bred so long and thin, after awhile these genetic types are simply worthless as riding horses. Quarter horses went the other extreme, some of thier pedigree types are so heavily muscled, they are like body builders that cannot move. and with this comes along more genetic issues. I am beginning to see some of these type of extremes in the mini horse world as I research various bloodlines. And its my opinion that the extreme cosmetics is the starting point. Even sadder are the judges that are rewarding these extremes, when they are supposed to be safe guarding the breeds and awarding those that stay true to the registry standard. Those standards are created for a reason.

I understand more now about razoring, how it is supposed to imitate the eye and muzzle bloom. My littles ones have it naturally since they are outdoors. I only keep them stalled for a couple weeks or so after body clipping with nightly turn out (i have seen dark skin become irritated and flaky from the sun). Perhaps if it is done to a minimum it would look ok, with a light shine. But I have to be honest, I have seen far too many that are greasy and overly done so that it doesn't look natural....

On a final note, I would agree with a judge penalizing someone with a poorly kept horse, that just shows lack of desire, motivation what have you... but if the horse is clean, with well fitting tack, and a tidy apperance (IE no long shaggy coats or 3 inch beards), then I think the penalty is uncalled for...

 

[minimomNC]

I think what everyone is missing with why we clip for every show and that clipped horses place better than natural horses is, hair can make the conformation look different. With a close clip, you can actually see the conformation, the muscles are more defined, its all there for everyone to see. You can't fool a judge with a long V and you can't hide anything on a tight clipped coat. But when you leave a natural coat, there is room for doubt. Longer hair can cover muscling on some colors, it can make the head a different shape, it can make a neck appear shorter or thicker. So when people complain about a clipped horse winning over a non clipped horse, it might be because the clipped horse is showing how its put together and the non clipped horse is hiding how good it really is. But the bottom line is, its your horse, show it how you want to. If clipping doesn't make a difference to you, then don't clip. We love our horses, just ask anyone who really knows me how I feel about my stallion, but this is alot of work to show and win at the World level and when you put that much time and money into showing, you make sure you do the details as well. It all counts.

 

[Sue_C.]

I think what everyone is missing with why we clip for every show and that clipped horses place better than natural horses is, hair can make the conformation look different. With a close clip, you can actually see the conformation, the muscles are more defined, its all there for everyone to see. You can't fool a judge with a long V and you can't hide anything on a tight clipped coat. But when you leave a natural coat, there is room for doubt. Longer hair can cover muscling on some colors, it can make the head a different shape, it can make a neck appear shorter or thicker. So when people complain about a clipped horse winning over a non clipped horse, it might be because the clipped horse is showing how its put together and the non clipped horse is hiding how good it really is.

Early spring, and late fall, yes I see a place for simple body clipping...especially with a perfomance horse that suffers from working hard in a shaggy coat. But to clip all SUMMER...before EVERY show??? I don't see the necessity for that at all. I can see this being a valid point ONLY in a class full of clipped horses with a few winter-haired yaks thrown in.

There is no WAY that a good horse, in a beautifully maintained, tight, shiny summer coat is able to "hide" anything with all the "long hair"...nope, just ain't gonna happen. How on earth do you think the large horse breed judges do it? Good heaven's, it is a terrible thing to think OUR judges are too dumb to see conformation on a horse without having it skinned and plucked. If this is so, maybe they should seek employment with a chicken processing plant, and we will bring over some of the larger breed judges and see if they can do it right.

 

[ohmt]

I like some razoring and I think if done right it shows the face beautifully.

Once again, I honestly don't see the big fight between people that do or don't clip. To him his own. Most of the people that are razoring aren't doing the whole face and aren't cutting off eyelashes. For the ones that are, take it up with them. I bet you'll have a hard time finding them here on this forum.

Early spring, and late fall, yes I see a place for simple body clipping...especially with a perfomance horse that suffers from working hard in a shaggy coat. But to clip all SUMMER...before EVERY show??? I don't see the necessity for that at all. I can see this being a valid point ONLY in a class full of clipped horses with a few winter-haired yaks thrown in.

There is no WAY that a good horse, in a beautifully maintained, tight, shiny summer coat is able to "hide" anything with all the "long hair"...nope, just ain't gonna happen. How on earth do you think the large horse breed judges do it? Good heaven's, it is a terrible thing to think OUR judges are too dumb to see conformation on a horse without having it skinned and plucked. If this is so, maybe they should seek employment with a chicken processing plant, and we will bring over some of the larger breed judges and see if they can do it right.

There are SOME miniature horses who look great and CAN maintain the tight, shiny summer coat and there are some who CAN'T. If I ever had time to get some of my horses ready for a show, there's no way I could not shave before each show because 3/4 of mine get the nasty pig hair and before I know it, they've got hair everywhere. I usually shave my yearlings 3x a summer (the ones that I have for sale) because I can shave them one week so they look great and then the next they look terrible with hair growing in all different directions-their belly hair grows faster than the rest so they look bloated. I have had quarter horses for years and have never had to shave them. Not even a once in the spring type deal. They shed off and look so sleek and never have those nasty pig hairs or the dreaded tummy fuzz. Maybe it's just me, but my biggies and my minis have very different coats. Even some of my minis who do have nice shiny summer coats still have over an inch of hair that does a bit of hiding. Do some of my minis get the pretty,tight natural coat? Sure and I would love to show them naturally someday. But the others, NO WAY.