Question about Pneumabort-K

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Contessa

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I have 2 mares to foal this year, one in July and one in September. According to my vet and most literature I should give this at 5, 7 and 9 months. BUT !! I have been reading lately, especially on this forum that some breeders say they have had mares abort after giving this shot. Now I am totally confused as to what to do. I don't want to lose my foals. What should I do??
 
Every vet I've ever talked with about this says give it, no question. My mares do get it and I've not had a problem with it but you will hear from just as many people who swear it's caused abortions. No easy answer, just one of those things you have to decide for yourself. If there is a risk with the shots - does it outweigh the risk of NOT giving it and having rhino run through your broodmares and cause almost certain abortion?

Jan
 
This topic comes up at LEAST once a year, just like the WNV topic. RHINO will cause a mare to abort. The vaccine helps to prevent your mare from coming down with Rhino and aborting. Now, Rhino isn't the only thing that causes abortions. And yes, some mares have aborted following the vaccine. BUT and this is a big BUT, just because you vaccinate a mare for Rhino and the mare aborts within 48 hours of the vaccine DOES NOT mean the vaccine caused the abortion.

It honestly depends in your circumstances and what risks you are willing to take. Breeders with large herds might find is cost inhibitive to vaccinate all their mares for Rhino (3x a mare), whereas small breeders like myself find cost effective to vaccinate. If you have 30 head of mares, loosing a foal or two is not the same impact as only having 2-3 bred mares a year and loosing a foal.
 
So to confuse things even more, try this....

One article:

Equine Rhinopneumonitis (Contagious or Viral Abortion, Snots) is

a disease caused by equine herpes virus Type 1 (EHV-1). Each

subtype produces different symptoms: Sub-type 1 is the strain

that causes abortions, respiratory, and neurologic disease, while

sub-type 2 is just a respiratory strain.

Rhinopneumonitis occurs in horses of all ages but is more common

in horses less than three years old. Sporadic outbreaks come from

inhalation of the virus particles. After incubation of two to 10

days, symptoms for the respiratory subtype are a fever of 102o to

107o F with a bacterial infection or "snots." Recovery provides

immunity for only two to three months.

Respiratory problems are more severe in foals, with infections

near birth producing weak foals that die within 24 hours.

Following a respiratory infection, the virus can cause abortions.

Death of the fetus occurs two weeks to four months after exposure

to the virus, or during the last three months of pregnancy.

Abortion storms have a sudden onset with no additional clinical

signs. The foal dies from asphyxiation by the premature

separation of the placenta.

Occasionally, the virus attacks the central nervous system,

causing mild incoordination, paralysis of the rear legs or

complete recumbency.

Two vaccines are available: a killed vaccine and a modified-live

vaccine.

The killed vaccine is given to pregnant mares during the fifth,

seventh and ninth months of pregnancy. The modified-live vaccine

can be given every three months. Foals should be vac-cinated at

three months of age and again at four months. Horses should be

given boosters every year.

Prevention includes isolating arrivals and dividing the

horses into small groups. The disease is difficult to confirm by

diagnostic procedures unless proper tissue and blood samples are

available.

And the second:

Equine Rhino Vaccination - is it worth it?

By Daniel Beatty, DVM

It is the fall season and many people are inquiring about what vaccinations they should give their horse. Equine Rhino, Equine Influenza, Potomac Horse Fever, and Rabies are the common ones asked for in this area of the US. However are they worth it? Do you actually know what they do and how they protect? Did you know that many times they do not protect at all like you think they should?

Equine Rhinopneumonitis, one of my favorite diseases to bash the vaccine. Why bash the vaccine? Well to put it bluntly and simply, because it doesn’t work in protecting your horse. This is a herpes virus and like the herpes viruses in humans it can infect the animal for life. The virus remains dormant and the horse will not show signs of infection, this is called latency. However during periods of stress, such as show season, out breaks can occur. The vaccine for rhino does not appear to be able to prevent these outbreaks and is questionable as to whether it even helps stem the signs and symptoms. The disease causes respiratory signs, abortions and infrequently a paralyzing neurologic disease with similar signs as the infamous Equine Protozoal Myelitis (EPM). The neurologic form has been in the news for the past couple of years because there appears to be a very virulent strain causing the neuroplogic form that has closed racetracks in Maryland and has had a very large impact on the horse industry where ever it has been found. The vaccines for rhino do not produce antibodies in all horses, in fact, most vaccines produce antibodies in only 80% of horses. In the horses that it does produce antibodies, they last for a very short time (2 to 3 months); and even though it may produce antibodies this doesn’t mean the horse is protected from acquiring the disease. Currently the studies show that the vaccines are able to effectively reduce the symptoms of the respiratory form of the disease in about 50% of the horses. One last bit of bad news is that none of the vaccines out there are able to protect against the neurologic form of the virus.

So now you are asking, “Why am I vaccinating for this disease it appears that the vaccine doesn’t work?” Short of saying, “I don’t know.” it does appear that multiple vaccination (every 3 months) in high-risk horses, such as show horses, reduces the severity of the disease. In pregnant mares it appears to prevent abortion storms meaning multiple abortions on the same breeding farm; however the disease can and will still occur in individuals, because some horses do not respond at all to the vaccine. So if you are willing to give the vaccine every three months…oh wait there is a problem with doing this as well…. the immune system has a limited capacity for responding to vaccine. If you give it too many vaccines at the same time or space them too closely, you dilute the immune response to each vaccine. So giving multiple vaccines every two to three months over a long period of time will reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine which has a poor effectiveness to begin with. Not to mention that in dogs and cats it has been discovered that multiple vaccinations causes (let me repeat) causes immune system failure such as allergies, cancers and autoimmune diseases. Check out - Is Your Vet overvaccinating your dog? for more information. The horse is a different animal but there is anecdotal evidence in horses with allergies that reducing the number of vaccines up to totally eliminating them reduces the severity of their allergies to the point where they are unnoticable.

So lets bring this back to fall vaccinations…the last time your horse may have received a rhino shot was in the spring. The vaccine, if it produces antibodies in your horse, lasts 2 to 3 months, it is what now 6 months or 9 months later? How effective has that vaccine been in protecting your horse? So why are you wasting your money? So No - Equine Rhino Vaccination is not worth it.
 
My vet was just out this morning to give vacs and pneumabort, we have always given the vacs on minis and large horses. Our vet has dropped the dosing on the minis though to a half dose...right now there is so little research on how to vaccinate the minis, most vaccinate with the same dosing as a full size horse...so we have cut back on most of our vacs to half doses. We also usually dose with banamine at the time of vaccinating as some will be senstive. I do know for a fact that, in mini donks, the vaccine can cause a reaction that will cause the jenny to start contracting...whether is is colic type symptoms or actual contractions and abort. A few years back we had a jenny abort after the vaccine...and last year when the vaccine was given to the same jenny within a short period of time, she was down trying to abort, got the vet out and we gave her banamine and got her up and after a few hours she was fine. So, we don't give that jenny the vaccine, but all the horses get it.

Becky
 
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I have used pneumobort for years an no problems but my vet says the same thing give 1 cc instead of the normal 2 cc the big thing he noticed with giving a 2 cc dose the horses got a lot more painful than with a 1 cc dose.

Barb
 
According to my vet and most literature I should give this at 5, 7 and 9 months.
I follow the advice of my vet and give the vaccines at 5, 7 and 9 months.

Liz R.
 
I do believe each horse's special needs should be taken into consideration as to what vaccines should be given and when- your own vet may be the best help in this area. Perhaps what is right for one horse/situation is not right for another.

I, too, give Pneumabort K now at 3,5,7,9 (vet recommendation) and have had no problems with it. There have been two occassions where my vet had me give the 1cc dose instead of the 2cc dose. The two-three month immunity issue is exactly why I start giving the Pneumabort K at the beginning of 3 months gestation. When I didn't give it at all, well..... I don't want to relive that experience again.

Peggy
 
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I give it as a part of their annual vaccinations only, and do not give it to them at the 5, 7 and 9 months. My vet advised against it many years ago when I started raising them, and I have never had any troubles not giving it. Maybe lucky, I don't know, but knock on wood, so far, so good.
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we give rhino shots 5,7,9 as per my vets advise

we have only been breeding for 4 seasons and have 6 mares now

1st season bred only 2

2nd season bred only 1

now we have our own stallion

07 we bred 6 and did have 1 mare abort at 10 months but don't believe it was rhino shot related although we don't know what the cause was

for 08 we have 5 mares bred and are giving the rhino shots

I makes you worry but I think I would worry more without the shots
 
Thanks for all of your responses. I have gotten 1/3 yes, 1/3 no and 1/3 half a dose. Well it wasn't a landslide yes or no like I expected so taking it all into consideration, I am going to go with the half dose (1cc) for my mini mares. I'm taking the middle road and hoping for the best. Tammy
 
We follow the same practice as Mona and have for over 20 years. And like Mona - no issues and we are producing around 25 foals annually
 
I vaccinate my broodmares after foaling and before breeding back. I try to refrain from giving my mares any vaccinations during pregnancy. After having a few mares abort abort a short period of time after vaccinating in the past, I made the decision not to vaccinate during pregnancy if at all possible. I have not had a late term abortion since.

I will say, though, that I do keep my show horses vaccinated every 2-3 months and keep my broodmares and breeding horses separated from the show horses.
 
I guess we all have to make a personal decision about this, but I have never lost a foal durring gestation, and do not give the shots either.
 
I also gave the shot to all my preggos but noticed when I gave one mare the shots she always aborted? Gave her 7th month shot, she lost the filly soon after. Next year I gave her the 9th month shot, she lost the colt. Was it the shots?? Who knows but she has been checked and is breeding sound, this year none of my mares have gotten the shot and the one mare is doing just fine and is due in 2 months. It's a decision only you can make.
 
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Ok now it looks like the not giving the shots is outweighing the giving the shots! Becky mentioned having show horses also which is a good point. I do not show and my horses are not exposed to outside horses. I have 6 minis (1 stud, 4 mares and 1 filly) so my mares are getting bred right here on the farm.
 
Interesting articles Skanzler. I've read the "pro" side side many times, the "con" article is thought provoking. I've had very few abortions over the years - a few late term with very twisted cords, but only 2-3 ever that were really unexplained but attributed to a placental infection.

I'd like to hear more about giving a half dose - something that's always made sense to me but vets always say "a dose is a dose" regardless of horse size.

Jan
 
We have given the shots at 5, 7 ,9 mos in the past few year no problems.

This year we have given the 5,7 9mos, we have had three mares abort(two unknown and one to twisted cord).It is a very hard choice
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We like to follow our vet's,but worry as well what is best.
 

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