Question about color genetics

[lisalynn68]

Is it possible to get a buckskin/white, palomino/white, or chestnut/white from a bay tobiano stallion and a black/white (homozygous black) tobiano mare? I've been playing with a color gene calculator and it's telling me that the combination is impossible - which leads me to believe that even though the stallion LOOKS like a bay, he may actually be a genetic buckskin. Thoughts?

 

[Hoot]

Yes, if the mare was actually a smokey black you could get a palomino or buckskin.

 

[lisalynn68]

Would a smokey black appear as a silvery color or could it be hidden? She is max white - black head with a wide blaze and blue eyes - no silvery color to the black.

 

[Hoot]

I forgot to add, the stallion could be EE or Ee if he is indeed bay. However if the mare is EE (homozygous) you will never get a chestnut foal because E is dominant. (Chestnut is ee).

 

[Hoot]

Would a smokey black appear as a silvery color or could it be hidden? She is max white - black head with a wide blaze and blue eyes - no silvery color to the black.

Smokey does not produce a "silvery" color. Smokey is a single dilute gene on black. Buckskin and palomino are single dilute genes on bay and chestnut respectively. Smokey can range from a normal shade of black to a faded shade of black. But is not silvery. Pictures and pedigree could help solve this mystery...

 

[lisalynn68]

Mare must be Ee because she had a chestnut/white colt last Spring. Mare is High Hopes Monica Cew and stallion is Lone Star Storm. Both are in the AMHA studbook.

 

[lisalynn68]

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

If one of the parents carries a cream gene (if stallion is actually buckskin or if mare is smokey black) you could get the buckskin but if the mare is homozygous black you can not get a chestnut or a palomino as both are red based and she can only produce black based foals. If you can check the papers on either parent and see if either of their parents is a cream that will give you a good indication of if they could potentially carry it.

Edited now that you posted who they are, Lone Star Storm is a bay pinto for sure. That mare I do believe was found to be a smokey black pinto as she has had a buckskin pinto filly and a palomino pinto filly. And as you can tell she is heterozygous black not HZ.

 

[Hoot]

I can't see the photo. Who told you she was homozygous black? If she had a chestnut foal last year, as you already observed she has to be heterozygous. Looking up pedigrees now...

 

[Hoot]

Lone Star Storm is out of a BAY PINTO mare who is out of a SOLID BAY mare and by a BLACK PINTO stallion.

Lone Star Storm is by a SOLID BAY stallion who is out of a SOLID BAY mare and by a SOLID BLACK stallion.

No mysteries there. Now to check the mare...

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

Lone Star Storm is now owned by Kaycee Miniature Horses.... he can be seen here....http://www.kayceeminiaturehorsefarm.com/Kaycee_Website/Stallions.html

I still have photos of that mare and her palomino pinto filly. I think her previous owner might have a picture or two of her buckskin pinto filly too.

 

[Hoot]

The picture definitely solidifies it. The mare has to be where the dilute is coming from... and she must not be homozygous black...

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

The picture definitely solidifies it. The mare has to be where the dilute is coming from... and she must not be homozygous black...

Yep the dam of the mare is a palomino pinto so definitely not homozygous black and def. can carry the cream. I would test the mare for tobiano though as both sire and dam are pinto and I dont believe she ever had a solid foal. I would have to check with the previous owner on that one but she didnt that I can remember.