Question about A size AMHR minis

[horsehug]

I am not in any way trying to put AMHA against AMHR or have that kind of discussion. I am just curious as to if many of you breed straight AMHR horses concentrating on under 34" ones?

Part of my reason for asking is that I mostly breed double AMHA/AMHR horses but I do from time to time breed straight AMHR ones that will stay under 34". When I do, I have always let people know that they will be eligible for hardship into AMHA if they so choose to do it down the line.

But this year's (2010) foals are the last ones who will still be eligible to hardship into AMHA when they turn 3 in 2013. Because that is the last year before the hardship closes for AMHA.

So I am just wondering how many people will still be interested in foals that will stay under 34" but will always be straight AMHR and not have a chance to be hardshipped into AMHA.

I guess I'm kind of wondering if it is wise to still breed any straight AMHR mares, or if there will be less of a market for their A sized foals. And I am talking mares that are over 34" but produce under 34" foals.

Thanks for any input.

Susan O.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Isn't AMHA just closing its books to nonregistered A size minis. I was thinking that horses registered with AMHR would still be eligible for hardship as long as they had permanent R papers.

 

[horsehug]

Hi Julie,

I would LOVE it if that were the case, like what AMHR does, but I have not ever heard that AMHA was going to do the same thing.

I'd love to know if I am wrong! I was under the impression that as of 2013 all hardshipping was going to be over for AMHA, (unless of course they ever change the rule again. )

Susan O.

 

[LaVern]

I do think that we will be using more straight B stallions,and many will be breeding for that 36 inch horse, but I think that there will still be a demand for the A size if they are good, So many of the AMHA people show AMHR and if you can compete. It is all about the horse. I do feel that we will begin to notice more of a different look between the 34 and under AMHR and the AMHA.

 

[HGFarm]

Susan I have pondered that myself............ Such a shame that AMHA will be missing out on many nice under 34 horses, but I guess some felt the registry was going to benefit from that somehow.

I guess they will just be AMHR and a nice horse is a nice horse, so AMHA will do without and they will be AMHR only.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

It will be real interesting to see such an outcome. It will either hurt AMHA in the long run or will make AMHA registered horses much more valuable. IMO I see AMHR get more benefit from this as AMHR still accepts AMHA horses in for hardship and I do think AMHR will just grow as AMHA I think is going to just limit themselves.

So to answer your question yes, there will always be a market. I think there will be more and more members commiting to one registry instead of both. For me it just got too dang expensive to do both, more so because of the memberships fees, and AMHR for me was the more reasonable choice. Also when it comes to AMHR you always have your B division if your 1 horse does go over from A.

I have been thinking alot lately should I switch over to A as there horses are what I am leaning more towards, or should I stick with R as that is what I know and love. Should I stick with just raising AMHR horses or should I jump in line with the AMHR/ASPC? Literally I can start over as a I have 1 show horse and 1 weanling colt thats A/R that will be gelded, thats it. Also I am seeing more new members joinging, new people showing. I think AMHR is more open to new members and like I said before I think AMHA is just limiting themselves and that includes new memberships.

I think in the future tho AMHA may accepts hardships from AMHR, but I don't see it anytime soon.

 

[JWC sr.]

Unfortunately this is just another example of exclusion as versus inclusion on the part of the registries. Loss of revenue in times like we currently have is not a good thing for anyone.

But to specifically answer the question you posed, we have a good demand for horses that are AMHR under 34" on a regular basis. If they are good ones they will sell in our experience. Even though our results may be a little tainted in that the vast majority of our horses are AMHA/AMHR registered to give folks an option.

 

[midnight star stables]

I tried my hand at breeding and with no foals to show and and a very thin wallet

I won't be breeding again for a few years. That said I only bred for AMHR horses, one A one B.

As a buyer, I only look for AMHR papers. Futurities, ASPC and AMHA are nice extras, but AMHR is my deal. Would I but an AMHR only A? Yes! More of my stock is more on the B side but that was only by chance. I like a good AMHR horse, no matter the size!

 

[horsehug]

Thanks Everyone for your input!!

I appreciate it.

Susan O.

 

[ruffian]

AMHA has great futurities as well as the Sweepstakes. Their Futurity program is much cheaper than AMHR. That said, I have mostly AMHA/AMHR, but a few AMHR only, which are geldings. I would still choose to breed AMHA/AMHR simply because I like the A size, and it opens a world wide market.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

AMHA has great futurities as well as the Sweepstakes. Their Futurity program is much cheaper than AMHR. That said, I have mostly AMHA/AMHR, but a few AMHR only, which are geldings. I would still choose to breed AMHA/AMHR simply because I like the A size, and it opens a world wide market.

Can I ask how much is it to participate in AMHA's futurity program? I thought AMHR was pretty cheap and AMHA is in the $100s range.

 

[gvpalominominis]

Unfortunately this is just another example of exclusion as versus inclusion on the part of the registries. Loss of revenue in times like we currently have is not a good thing for anyone.

But to specifically answer the question you posed, we have a good demand for horses that are AMHR under 34" on a regular basis. If they are good ones they will sell in our experience. Even though our results may be a little tainted in that the vast majority of our horses are AMHA/AMHR registered to give folks an option.

I concur John. As it's been discussed on numerous threads...closing the registry could very well have a detrimental effect financially and gene pool wise, on any registry that does so.

It's also been said before, if AMHR manages right, it could very well become the strongest and largest small equine registry.

To answer the topic question, the nice thing about AMHR is that it welcomes both "Under" 34" horses with classes AND the "Over" 34" horse with classes. When you own both sizes... you can show them both under one roof at an AMHR show = ). Economically... as an exhibitor that makes a lot of sense.

Regarding Futurities - Here are the nominating fees per the respective registry:

AMHA

Stallion Nomination: $200 each

Mare Nomination : $50 each

AMHR

Stallion Nominating Fee = $25.00.

Mare Nominating Fee = $5.00

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Regarding Futurities - Here are the nominating fees per the respective registry:

AMHA

Stallion Nomination: $200 each

Mare Nomination : $50 each

AMHR

Stallion Nominating Fee = $25.00.

Mare Nominating Fee = $5.00

Plus, with AMHA you get ONE chance to show in the Futurity- as a yearling only. In AMHR, you get FOUR years in halter plus a driving class.

Lucy

 

[sdmini]

another example of exclusion as versus inclusion on the part of the registries.

John I just don't see the "inclusion" "exclusion" the way you do. One registry is trying to "include" the type of horse that has been in demand since the inception of the miniature horse association. One registry is trying to "include" the truly novice handler and do it your-selver. One registry is trying to "include" it's members in a "exclusive" market. (One registry already benefits from being "exclusive", making it's set of papers worth more regardless of the horse.) I have a feeling however both of us could debate till where we were blue but, while seeing the others point, not wavier on our perceptions.

That said I don't think it's a great idea to close the door on hardshipping. That influx of money could have been well served in a gelding incentive. One like the QH gelding incentive where any enrolled gelding receiving a point at a sanctioned show anywhere in the World would receive a portion of the pot. Think of the trickle down of such a program, more geldings that are worth more, more entries at local shows. Perhaps show assistance monies for shows that start up in new areas. No matter about the should-a, could-a, would-a though as that door is closed.

After AQHA lost it's court case barring the exclusion of certain AQHA horses I asked if AMHA was worried. The answer I got from a "high up" (not going to use the name) was AMHA's lawyer said it was a non-issue as AMHA was a height registration not a breed. Makes me wonder if AMHA is contemplating some sort of over division now.

 

[sdmini]

I did want to clarify on one point on about the futurities. Yes the AMHA futurity is more expensive but it's the best bet for the little guy. With AMHR I know trainers that put their futurity horses with "bigger" trainers as the classes are huge. With AMHA the open futurity is just a "trainer" packed but AMHA has a Amateur futurity. AMHA is doing some neat things aimed at the amateur handler. Personally I don't understand the yearling only futurity but perhaps to make the pots feasibly large enough to support two divisions it was the only way.

(AMHA does have a separate performance futurity with some driving as well as a hunter class but don't know a lot about it.)

I grew up in AMHR's back yard and love the association and the people but I think AMHA gets some knocks it doesn't deserve on this forum.

 

[Jill]

Sorry! This posted on the wrong thread.

 

[JWC sr.]

Marlee,

What I mean by inclusion as versus exclusion is pretty simple.

AMHR tends to want to as a general rule be inclusive in that they are continuously putting in more classes, divisions and programs to allow a wider variety of horses and people to compete and USE their horses in a number of ways. I would cite the lower qualifications required to attend Nationals, Show pony & B division and allowing hardship of AMHA etc horses into the registry as examples. I would suggest that this approach seems to work when you look at the size of the National show.

AMHA has a general tendency to want to limit the folks and horses that can be involved. I would cite the closing of the registry and no reciprocal with AMHR horses, higher qualifications to attend the World show and the costs associated with maintaining the futurities and even the shows themselves etc.

Bottom line for me is that I want to give as many options as I can for our horses to find a life job with a new owner. So we will continue to double register them and hope for the well being of both registries. It gives folks options and that is good.

As far as anything to promote the use and value of geldings, we are all for it. Sign me up we have gelded all but the very very best of our colts now every year for the last 3 years in an attempt to promote their use. Donating a number of them to local clubs for fund raisers etc.