Puppy training for a friend, the adventure begins

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shorthorsemom

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I thought I would share. I have two adult childless friends that got a puppy a few months ago as a spontaneous gesture when one of their two senior dogs passed away. When they told me they had purchased a lab puppy I had one of those OMG moments. I have been a dog trainer since mid 70s and I have 6 dogs of my own and although I shared their joy when they showed me their new little lab bundle of joy named "zeus" I also had one of those "what were you thinking" thoughts in the back of my mind.

For some history.. The husband has stage 4 liver failure and the wife was recently disabled by an on the job horrible accident and is recovering from a crushed foot with pain level off the charts. The husband is not well and the wife cannot walk and she wears a boot and here is this gorgeous male lab puppy with GIANT feet. Yikes. I offer my help and they say, no thank you, he is the "perfect" puppy and both of their old guys were "perfect" puppies too.

I helplessly watch for a couple of weeks as puppy rides behind the steering wheel of their car, listens to them tell me about how puppy sits down at the supper table with them with his own plate of food and sleeps in their bed while owners argue on who feels good enough to let him out in the yard to potty at night and then complain about accidents. They were raising him without a crate and they thought leaving him intact and having him sire puppies in the future would be fun. yikes.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago when they brought him over to show me one afternoon and complained that he wouldn't walk on a leash. I watch they struggle to pick up this enormous puppy and carry him everywhere he wants to go, I work with him 5 minutes and agree, yes he does not know how to walk on a leash and discovered the harness was pinching him in the armpits. I offer to assist the housebreaking and leash training and help a little on the manners training and they agree so he came to my home for an afternoon.

They brought him to me and dropped him off and I learned he was smart and willing and I had this pup going potty with the help of my veteran dogs showing him the way, had him walking nicely on lead and I crate trained him by they time they came back to pick him up.

I discovered that this puppy is VERY smart, willing to learn and if I were picking an obedience or search rescue dog I would probably pick him. Yikes, smart puppys in lenient homes can be a nightmare, puppies get crazy without enough mental stimulation.. I suggested doing every other day training sessions and he was advancing quickly. I gave owners easy homework assignments so they could feel a part of his training. Quickly noticed that they were not doing any of the homework and they admitted so and I noticed puppy starting to regress on his training and I would spend half my training session winning the battle and the other half enjoying the result of winning.

Marrige is shaky between the two owners and they do not agree on anything and they fight about the puppy and husband pretty much does his own thing and keeps saying puppy always listens to him but not to the wife. What I see is puppy is now gaining control at their home and each time I get him for training he is bigger, stronger and more spoiled. Yikes again. I work with training the owner when she comes to pick him up, but am seriously limited by their physical limitations. even asking them to do some eye contact exercises and clicker training and two days later they admit to doing neither.

Puppy has now gained 13 lbs in 4 weeks and now outweighs 4 of my 6 dogs. He leaps right off the floor and launches at his owners heads and knocks their glasses off and sends things flying. He bites everything because he is teething. He snarls at possession of bones now. He steals food from their other dog and is trying for total leadership. He IS in control of their house. It is sad watching the destruction of a fabulous puppy by folks that should have considered an older rescue lab to pour their hearts into and spoil for life.

So now... I have offered some "Puppy boot camp" at my home. Told her that puppy was fast approaching the point where he will be too strong to handle, and I offered her an "intervention".

He will come stay with me for 24/7 training and they can visit with him here. When I have control and consistant training on him, I will then return him to them and continue private lessons in their home. He will get dog food here and not eat from my plates. I can resist those cute big brown eyes.

I need another dog like a hole in the head, but the trainer in me cannot watch them destroy the temperament of a wonderful puppy with their love. Some owners can just love a dog to death and this is what I am watching. He bites their faces and when I ask what they were doing when he did the biting, they say... "well, I was kissing his lips"... ahhhhhhhhhh I see.

I already got them to quit hitting him with news paper and showing him poop and pee and sticking his face right over it and scolding him. sheesh. I have my work cut out for me, but considering he was house broken reliably in my home in about an hour, I know I have puppy brains to work with.

We have 200 acres and you should see him track, relax and walk on a loose lead and explore every crack and ditch and rock. He is calm and happy and loves his walks once I win the battle of who is in control.

The battle was getting tougher and tougher to win each day because he was getting away with murder and then coming over for a 1 hour training session and going home to comit more crimes.

I felt good when the wife with the hurt foot said, " I need a break and I hope you can help us"... I will do my best. I keep telling myself, it will be good for me. This is my random act of kindness for the month. the adventure begins...

Anyway... to keep this from being a book, and I will let you know as a training story in the making how it works taking puppy into bootcamp. Zeus arrives in 1.5 hours. Let the games begin sherlock. stay tuned, this might end up being a fun and dramatic thread. If you could have seen this 56 year old mom (me) wrestling a puppy in a field yesterday (because I refuse to lose) you would have had a good laugh. I won but I think I had youtube material in humor there for a bit. cheers.

PS, little stinker trys to eat rocks and corn fodder. He now has a nice booda bone to carry on our walks. Did I say what a natural retriever he is? take care and wish me luck folks.
 
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Sounds like an Amazing Puppy who will grow into a wonderful dog.Maybe after you get him trained you will be able to convince them that he is so awesome that he really should be a search and rescue dog.From your description of him that sounds like his calling and purpose in life.sounds like they don't need a puppy-maybe just an older senior rescue dog that just hangs around the house-lots of them waiting for good homes.They are already house trained and leash trained etc.Bless you for taking him and taking the time to train him.
 
Lucky dog and lucky neighbours! I agree with you, it has been my experience that smart dogs can become a huge problem when raised by inexperienced, uncaring or too permissive owners. I look forward to following along on this new journey Zeus and you have begun
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Well, Zeus was dropped off at noon. I visited with his parents in the driveway and the owners were unaware I was training Zeus the whole time I was chatting with them. I use very subtle corrections and quick to praise. I noticed that when Zeus jumped on the wife hard, the husband hugged him around the neck and petted him and told him " no jump". I pointed out that the petting and hugging were praise for jumping and showed them quickly how I could correct with good timing and praise for a sitting position. I asked them what they wanted and they said they wanted a dog that laid around and behaved. (They want an old dog).

pause to take my daughter to color guard... be right back:)
 
'sigh' sometimes even the nicest people fail to really think before they make a decision that will change not only their own lives but the life of an innocent who has no voice. In time these situations almost always end badly for the dog. Even if it is just that it is labelled 'bad' because it has never had any leadership.
 
Zeus and I had a great walk. 1.5 miles aprox. He explored, he tracked, he walked on a loose lead and behaved himself for me. He is awesome puppy and he should be a search and rescue dog or obedience dog or therapy dog or something to stimulate that brain of his. I used to do tracking and this boy is a natural, he is also a natural retriever. Great training potential. The owner called and wanted to visit him for supper and I said ok, he is her dog and this is hard for her. She brought him doggie icecream and sat out on the lawn while he ate icecream and his dog food. I went into the house for 15 minutes and in that short time he started mugging her and jumping all over her and putting his puppy teeth on her and she was very frustrated. I explained that training is a process and while he has respect of me, he is used to mugging her and we will work on this once I have done some basic training and "de-spoiling". I didn't intend to leave her alone with him, but didn't figure harm in her sitting on the lawn holding his leash while I got dressed to go to a performance at my kids school. Next visit will be supervised.

He pooped a monster poop on his walk this afternoon, biggest I have ever seen come out of a puppy. when I asked what he ate in the last 12 hours I was not expecting her to say, eggs, bacon, sausage, toast, fresh trout with skin on it, and potatoes and beets. All I could say was "oh my". Not sure what happened to the good quality dog food I talked them into buying (he was on some cheap food from walmart and dog food was the first thing we switched). No wonder his puppy intestines were so full. He must really understand the housebreaking part to have that much volume built up and still hold it in. Owner complained heavily over the price of dog food, but I found out tonight that what ever the owners eat, the dog eats. I will get him back on some sort of regular feeding schedule here. He eats kibble free choice at their house and all the human food in addition.

I know these folks will keep this puppy no matter what, but have you ever met folks where you wish they would give up because they are in over their heads and have a puppy that might take years before they are physically and mentally able to handle? If I were picking my next obedience dog and wanted to do search work and tracking and all that cool stuff I would pick this pup. He is so willing to march right down into deep ditches, right up the other side, sure footed and loving his world. I watched him pick up scent from deer tracks and raccoon tracks separately. He is like a sponge soaking up everything around him. He is a junior butthead too, but what 4 month old lab isn't? Night time here, he just went outside with 4 of my dogs. He loves this gang here, I think that is why he is happy, good raising pups with veteran dogs that know the ropes. best wishes folks. thanks for reading my diary of zeus.

ps I couldn't help myself and told her that if she decided Zeus was too much dog for them, i would take him. She looked at me funny and said.. no she will keep him forever. sigh. right dog, wrong home. should be an interesting experience. I will do my best to keep them from ruining this puppy and hopefully find a way to keep everybody happy.
 
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He is a junior butthead too, but what 4 month old lab isn't?
That made me laugh out loud! Almost every 4 month old dog (lap dogs may be the exception ) I have ever met is this but labs do have a special something don't they. LOL. Good luck, for his sake I do hope you have some success in training not just this bright young dog but his owners as well. Hope to read updates on how you are making out with him/them
 
Luckily the owners live very close. I plan to keep actively training for and with them for quite some time. When I taught obedience classes I always laughed at the lab puppies. I had a horse vet telling me stories of her lab puppy getting under the coffee table and running around the room wearing it. Usually Zeus picks up things every 5 seconds including rocks and sticks and fodder. Today I gave him a booda bone and watched him hold it by one end and flip his head so it kept slapping his face while he grinned. We are going to work on some retrieving tomorrow. he has to carry everything, might as well give him a job to do. The one good saving grace is that the owners really love him and are trying and working with me. HUGE step letting me bring him here to work on him and I thank them for that. This will be a good lesson for all. My three kids are on board and helping too and my husband is very encouraging too. take care, glad you enjoyed the laugh.
 
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I love reading this!!
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One of my biggest fears with letting my pups go, is that it isn't the 'right' home. So far *touch wood*, things seem to have worked out for my pups. I had one puppy buyer from my last litter that I was concerned about the match with the puppy they were going to get....to my relief, that person backed out at the last minute, and I was able to place the dog in a home that was a far better match!! Things sometimes work out for the best, but it's always those ones that I'm just not sure about that keep me worried.

Keep us posted on his progress....

~kathryn
 
good morning zeus. 20 text messages this morning back and forth to convince Zeus mommy that he needs to have an appointment to get neutered and a microchip would be a good idea too. They don't have money she says. clunk, that is me hitting my head against the wall. I might end up paying for the neutering just to get it done. Looking today for bargain neutering options. My tip for the morning... "if you cannot afford the dog, maybe it wasn't a good idea to get a puppy." Like horses, the purchase price is usually the least you will be paying in the long run. I asked her why she didn't consider an older rescue dog. She said, "they want $250 adoption fee and you have to fill out a form. "clunk" hitting the wall with my head again. Me personally, I prefer rescue dogs and I don't pick the breed anymore, I just pick the dog. So many fantastic dogs out there looking for forever home. Especially now with the economy suffering and folks have to give up their wonderful dogs. Rescue does not mean "reject". There are awesome dogs out there folks. Anyone out there reading my thread on zeus... this is my message for this morning... consider rescue, please.

PS, somebody dropped off an intact male siamese cross cat two days ago. I just caught him. Gotta call rescue to arrange neutering and vaccines and worming etc. sheesh. It is my week for saving I guess. Good to focus on something becides my lovely Gabrielle collie girl. My obedience show girl Gabby we suspect has a brain tumor. Gabby loves to train and play with puppies and it is nice to see her happily wagging around zeus and teaching him the rules of the house. She has helped me with my training for many years now, she is going to take a big chunk out and leave a canyon when she goes. take care, heading out for a morning zeus walk.
 
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Having lived with dogs, male and female, that have been neutered/spayed and dogs that have been left intact I now consider that part of the purchase price. So if the puppy is going to cost me $750 from the breeder then it is really going to cost me over a thousand dollars up front in the first year (that doesn't include food or - like our most recent addition - the removal of double dew claws) If I were to think I couldn't afford that early investment then I would have to wait until I could. I do like female dogs and if she isn't a breeding dog I sure as heck am not dealing with heats, but people with male dogs don't seem to recognize how much easier life with a neutered male will be. After all they won't have a litter of pups
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I am SO enjoying your adventures with Zeus.I REALLY hope something will happen in the owners' lives to help them make the decision to let Zeus go and get a more suitable dog.The cost of an older already neutered dog will be far less than getting gears in Zeus changed. No more puppy shots and lots less food.IMO you can't fix stupid, but at least they are willing to let you train him.It just seems like they will undo all your hard work.He sounds like an amazing dog with multiple talents that the owners are not equipped to handle.Wrong match-this is why our shelters are so full of unwanted animals.No thought on the part of humans and then the animals have to suffer the consequences.I look forward to hearing more of your stories with Zeus.sounds like you are having fun with him.
 
Zeus got two nice long walks today and he did really good. It helps to have something handy for him to carry in his mouth and that greatly reduces the lead biting. He does have a passion for rocks and I have to watch him like a hawk on that one and he will grab dirt clods. What ever could be in his brain that these things are cool to grab I will never get it. His chocolate lips from a nice sized mudball and his muddy tongue don't look like a good idea to me. haha. Zeus walked nicely and on a loose lead and tired out nicely enough to play fair with his new doggie friends.

His owners visited this evening and all heck broke loose but I did manage to get him back in control in front of his owners and his mom even did a well timed correction to prevent a jump up in her face. One thing that was odd was that when I have him he walks past my cats on the porch with no problem, but when his owners are here, he barks and growls at the same cat. He definitely has some dynamics going on with his relationship to his owners.

I had his owners hold him while I trimmed his nails. They could see how much effort goes into making a dog nice about nail trims. Their other dog is aggressive about nail trims so I had them hold zeus and give him belly and chest rubs while I trimmed his nails. We just get it done and don't make a big deal out of it and that lesson went well.

I am looking forward to when he loses those sharp puppy teeth.

Much as it drives me crazy to see the owners whoop him up when they visit, on the good side, this allows them to see that zeus is capable of good manners and now I can see the wheels are turning a bit to figure out why he is so wild for them and so much calmer for me to handle. The husband actually said something like "maybe I better not visit, I am making him bad again". Much as I would love to have him by myself, I do think that the visits might be getting them thinking about change. They want to make it work and are now watching me and listening to me a bit more.

One good thing is that when he starts to act up when they come, it gives me opportunity to step in and show Zeus that it is not ok to mug anybody, not even his owners. One training technique I learned was to invite the dog to make an error and then correct. Their presense invites zeus to start mouthing and acting like wally gator dog... I use this oportunity to correct, substitute an acceptable chew item and then we praise and move on. I do think the owners are enjoying their mini dog vacation although the owner said she woke up all night because zeus wasn't in her bed sleeping with her.

He does enjoy sleeping in his crate for me and he is very relaxed. I got one of those "manners minders" food treat dispenser set up on top of his crate and I have the remote control and I can reward him. he thinks it is cool that his crate "rains dog treats" from the ceiling. haha. Anyway, we survived day two. I am encouraged by his progress, but discouraged that when his owners come he gets high as a kite and gets hyper. I am looking forward to bridging that gap in the near future. Best wishes, thanks for reading.
 
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Sounds to me like he has made some real advances even in just 2 days! I think you are to be commended for accomplishing so much so quickly. The issue with his owners will probably never be 100% until they realize they can change it. He will learn that you expect a different code of conduct when you are there but when you are not they must step up and make him realize they will not tolerate such behaviour either. I'm a firm believer in crates and think many dogs will have a mistaken idea of who sets the rules if they can share the bed, the couch and the dinner table. Of course that is just my opinion but I have raised a lot of large (and extra large) dogs and people always ask me what my secret is, why my dogs or so well behaved. I tell them, time, consistency and a clear understanding for both the dog and I of who sets the rules and who follows them.
 
Yep you have that right. Gave them lecture tonight about people food and dog eating at table with them. Tried to explain that lavashing food on puppy puts him mentally in pack leader role. Lots of what they do sets pup up for failure. Too much rough housing from husband too and I really think husband is adult ADD. I took time to watch the owners body language and they have agitated movements which equals hyper response in pup. Pup is brilliant. I can hardly believe how fast he learns. I have been doing one hour lessons with the pup every few days for two weeks. Only just started 24/7 for last two days. Two weeks ago he wasn't housebroken and wouldn't walk at all on a leash. I did attention work with him and that helped a bunch. Shame is that this pup really belongs with someone who would appreciate and develop his remarkable ability to learn. My hope is to communicate a better life for him by helping his owners understand. I know this pup is the child they always wanted but when the husband was rubbing the top of his head on the pups belly and going "coochy coochey coo and tickling pups foot while he was in a down stay I admit to reaching my limit. Take care.. stay tuned
 
Ps. You really get to know someone when you watch them from the eyes of a dog. Sometimes it isn't very pretty. Should call this .. saving Zeus. My plan is to start training here..go to their home next and work with owners. I need them to see results first which is why he is here now. Take care
 
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Day three..normal dog food daily and dog treats and no human food. Remember the monster sized poop when we began this adventure? Last night and this morning were first normal size and volume and there is no grease slime covering the poop. Yippee. So for my Poopy description thinking while I am eating my breakfast this morning I am thinking about bagging it and showing it to Zeus owner as to what normal looks like. Haha. Seriously. I have had giant breed dogs that has smaller sized poops than this puppy who was living on everything the owner ate. Think about this...if it is all coming out in the poop.. how much nutrition was pup getting. My training involves working on pup..owner and healing inside and out. Training them on how to make their pup loved by them.. their vet and all who meet him and help them love him enough to do what is right. Not down playing those who cook for their dogs at all. Know many fine owners that do this successfully. Will do research today for homecooked "healthyoptions" for puppy in case owner really NEEDS to cook for him. Anybody want to post some options for home cooked dog food and recipes I would appreciate. I have to tread carefully as Zeus owner suffers from depression and Zeus is her "baby". Zeus is so happy and relaxed here this morning. I cant wait til it is warm enough to take him swimming in the creek.
 
I am totally bumming... chapter three here. owner of dog is imploding, He is not my dog. Just spent an hour on phone with her. Remember her marriage is shaky... now her husband wants to bring his dying brother, his wife and their thief son into their home to live. She hates the wife. They were evicted for their son stealing. I swear I heard all this today. Now I am just going crazy. She wants the puppy. Situation brewing is worst thing for puppy... I offered to keep him and find her a nice older rescue dog. I know she will not bite on that suggestion. Train wreck brewing. I was so excited when I got up this morning as to his progress. Will let you know how this plays out. She asked if she could move in with me to be with her dog... uh... no... sheesh, is this a soap opera or what. stay tuned. poor zeus.. doggie victim. they provide excellent care of the dog so no case of neglect. sheesh. I am bummed, dealing with depressed individual that sees this puppy as her only happiness. Told her to come take him back for a few days, don't know if she will try but 48 hours of hyper puppy might change her mind. Extra folks not in her house yet... I offered to keep him here until they were gone and let her come here and train with me and my dogs. she didn't like that idea and said she would rather sit in her room alone hugging her dog than leave him here where she can't see him at night. complex. wish me luck, feel like dear doggie abby.
 
Oh my.... people really do tend to be selfish don't they (we - the human race in general). Her husband sounds like he is thinking only of himself, and the wife is for sure not putting her dog's well being before her own wants. The sad part of it is none of them are going to get what they want (whatever that may be it is not likely to turn out the way they imagine) out of their decisions and the dog is caught in the middle with no choices.

On a separate thought, in reference to the pups energy levels; It has seemed to me that a pup/dog with great intelligence is often also inclined to be very high energy physically and without correct handling may be hyper. I wonder if you have observed that to be true? The smartest dogs I've owned, those that crave mental stimulation and really want to learn (including the 10.5month old rotti cross - not supposed to be a cross but clearly is lol- I have right now) have been very busy dogs and in need of direction to keep them out of trouble. Dogs known for intelligence like border collies and shepherds, labs ... seem to have a higher rate of dogs with behavioural issues (as far as being house pets go, not talking aggression so much) and can be very difficult for the average owner to live with.

Zeus gets this chance you are offering him to be more than a difficult, untrained and eventually not enjoyed pet.
 
Yep, those of us looking for fantastic working dogs for agility and obedience often turn to shelters or rescue because dogs of above average intellegence definitely make more difficult pets for those owners that expect the dog to lay around and do nothing bad. Folks People throw away their really really smart puppies and dogs every day for one reason... TRAINING.

Puppy was totally bored at their house and poorly timed corrections and forgive my word, stupid corrections were making him stress. What they see... Puppy running like maniac in house grabbing everything in sight... what I see is a pup with no sense of direction and what is expected, stressing out and going balistic because he doesnt know what to do and stupid poorly timed corrections just add to the stress....and that is why I wanted to bring him here to show them what a stimulated puppy could learn. One minute husband is throwing a ball and playing tug of war and grabbing his feet and initiating keep away and chase games, and the next minute he is surprised when pup jumps up and grabs his shirt sleeve. Setting pup up for failure.

Here he climbs rocks and goes in ditches and goes on sniff festival and he loves it and he is calm when he gets home here. Give him 6 more months of permissive raising and he would be a challenge for me to train simply because he is going to be so big and he has soooooo much energy. They will never throw him away though, they will just complain and complain instead. Probably will blame me eventually.

I feel like asking where will zeus live when marriage breaks up? nah, won't go there.

I have my work cut out for me.. husband gave me 2 weeks to get zeus trained. Wonder how long it will take to get husband trained? Maybe if I can show them progress they will realise that 2 weeks of training won't fix it all and they need to learn good training habits so they can continue my work. As far as newspaper being used to smack the puppy for biting... Told husband to take newspaper and smack himself in head with it instead. Sometimes I just can't help myself. Known these folks for years, would have never thought I would see this side of them. Through the eyes of zeus I am amazed. hoping to get zeus trained enough so if they ever do throw him away, I can be there to catch him and he will remember his awesome fun time with the lady who doesn't yell or hit and takes him really cool places to play and learn. stay tuned..
 
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