PROTESTS

[rabbitsfizz]

Oh I take the "breed" seriously alright, and have done for 25 years, right from the time when I was accused of just having "clipped out Shetlands" to the present day.

A Morgan is recognisable as a Morgan.

And you cannot hardship anything into the Morgan book.

The Breed Standard of the AMHA was lifted almost verbatim form the The Shetland Pony breed standard of the SPSBS here in England, and it is , to my mind, nonsense, it could describe just about anything, but definitely describes a Pony, when the Mini is supposed to be a Horse.

I do not want to get controversial here but the whole thing IMO needs a good shake up!!

I also think that, generally speaking, the only "protest" needed would be that the rules already in place are not being enforced- that is the responsibility of the BOD and it is truly and fundamentally wrong if it is really not being seen to.

What is the point of having ANY rules if they are not going to be enforced??

 

[susanne]

Perhaps I'm not familiar enough with the "official" breed standard, but I'd like to know where it states that they should like like an Arab or QH as opposed to looking like a Shetland or Hackney?

The key to the breed standard, as I understand it, is to look like a full-size horse in miniature. Flame away, but IMO the Arenosas and other ASPC/AMHR are among the best examples of this goal.

However, it's a matter of type rather than bloodlines, and that refined bone structure, long legs, handsome rather than cutesy heads, and long necks can be found in AMHA and A-sized AMHR horses with no recent Shetland bloodlines. Look at Erica's gorgeous horses, many just two generations away from Buckeroo, the quintessential miniature horse. Look at Liz's (Nootka's) Lark -- and there are many others.

It is the type that many are aiming for, whether the Shetland blood is recent or distant.

The "breed" is constantly evolving, and today's direction is toward a more elegant, refined horse that is built to move beautifully. Some like this, some do not, but as long as the "breed" is defined primarily by height and not bloodlines, whyever would we want to banish any horse that represents the ideal of a "full-size horse in miniature," no matter what its background?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree about the Arenosa bloodlines- I would be very glad to have a Mini with Arenosa bloodlines!!

I am sure there are many other good Shetland bloodlines I do not know about, too- what about Rowdy- "Kewpie"??

 

[Margo_C-T]

I am one who doesn't see this as a problematic issue. Yes, Miniatures are basically a 'height' breed-what is wrong with that? When I read the AMHA Standard of Perfection, I see a description of a group of correct conformational characteristics which taken together should produce a conformationally correct, and presumably athletic, horse, but NOT of any specific breed type-and to me, that is how it should be. Are horses that 'lean' strongly toward some specific breed type or other often 'winning' in the breed show ring nowadays? Yes, it would seem so-but where is it written that one "MUST" follow those trends? I have spent a good many years developing a feel for the type of horse I want, and I adhere to that, such things as extra-long necks and extra flat croups notwithstanding, for I have been around long enough to recognize that faddishness may come and go, but only genuine, proven conformational correctness is likely to mean horses who will LAST(and I mean, be able to work, and continue to work, for a well-cared-for lifetime.)I don't keep horses around just to LOOK at them...they need to have the best possible attributes to enable them to DO something-including being efficient, productive, and outproducing-themselves, breeders, if THAT'S their job.

As for allowing Hardshipping-which, as was noted, is actually still 'allowed' in AMHR, via the AMHA-first approach---the quality of the horses that enter the registries via this route is only as good as the overall horse knowledge and adherence to the rules, vis a vis accurate measurement, etc.,as the people responsible for doing the required inspections. Some will be better at it than others, IMO. In general, I believe that the high costs of hardshipping are actually a good thing-though I would support a reduced cost for GELDINGS, since they will NOT be contributing to the future gene pool-just a personal opinion.

I for one am satisfied with the fact that there IS a wide range of 'breed type' within miniature horses. Means there can be 'something for everyone'! The emphasis should be on the BEST POSSIBLE quality of conformational features AND temperment, no matter what the body type! I think it is a mistake, overall, for any breed to go off too much in one direction, either in conformation OR performance(and I do think that many breeders/trainers of miniature horses are in danger of, if not already doing, that, sad to say)-but that is usually only proven over a lengthy period of time, unfortunately(look at the tiny feet and straight pasterns STILL being bred into many QH and other stock horses, for a terrible example.) I am not ABOUT to 'sell all' of my horses in some hope of being able to 'win' with some currently popular/fashionable type or color or ???? That would be counter-productive, to say the least, IMO. I believe we are FINE with our(meaning, AMHA, with which I have the most experience)Standard of Perfection. Since we ARE a height breed, though, certainly that part of the Standard is important, and should be PROPERLY adhered-to through honest heights.

Margo

 

[jdhand]

I agree about the Arenosa Shetlands. They are beautiful and when crossed with a miniature or even a full bred Arenosa are absolutly beautiful. As long as they measure in correctly I don't see how we can say that AMHR/ASPC registered horses cannot show AMHR. The refined miniature horse looks so much better than the short legged, thick bodies miniatures from days gone by. When we first got into the miniatures we were more attracted to the B size miniatures because of this. What exhibitors need to do is learn the judges. Some judges will prefer the miniature without the modern shetland characteristics. Other judges will like the shetland look. Some will like the old style miniature. Get to know your judges, then pic shows with judges that prefer your type of horse. As long as the horses measure in they will be allowed to show. All of my miniatures are only AMHR registered. However I have looked at the Arenosa's and thought about purchasing some. However they are high strung and I debate back and forth about it. When we attend shows with Arenosa or Arenosa crosses showing against us they do win, but they are beautiful and deserve the win. As far as protesting, I would only do it in a situation where I felt it was an obvious issue. I would be sure I had something worth protesting because it involves other peoples time and trouble. As far as measuring the best way to fix that is have a video camera going an video all measuring. To keep up with where a horse is on the video, date and time the video and also the measurment cards. This would keep exhibitors, stewards and witnesses honest and accoutable.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I agree about the Arenosa Shetlands. They are beautiful and when crossed with a miniature or even a full bred Arenosa are absolutly beautiful. As long as they measure in correctly I don't see how we can say that AMHR/ASPC registered horses cannot show AMHR. The refined miniature horse looks so much better than the short legged, thick bodies miniatures from days gone by. When we first got into the miniatures we were more attracted to the B size miniatures because of this. What exhibitors need to do is learn the judges. Some judges will prefer the miniature without the modern shetland characteristics. Other judges will like the shetland look. Some will like the old style miniature. Get to know your judges, then pic shows with judges that prefer your type of horse. As long as the horses measure in they will be allowed to show. All of my miniatures are only AMHR registered. However I have looked at the Arenosa's and thought about purchasing some. However they are high strung and I debate back and forth about it. When we attend shows with Arenosa or Arenosa crosses showing against us they do win, but they are beautiful and deserve the win.

Which is why, after much discussion, my friend and I have decided to get an Arenosa colt. If you can't beat'em, join'em. :bgrin

Lucy

 

[Laura]

I have spent a good many years developing a feel for the type of horse I want, and I adhere to that, such things as extra-long necks and extra flat croups notwithstanding, for I have been around long enough to recognize that faddishness may come and go, but only genuine, proven conformational correctness is likely to mean horses who will LAST(and I mean, be able to work, and continue to work, for a well-cared-for lifetime.)I don't keep horses around just to LOOK at them...they need to have the best possible attributes to enable them to DO something-including being efficient, productive, and outproducing-themselves, breeders, if THAT'S their job.

Margo

[SIZE=12pt]A big AMEN sister!! I have spent 15 years breeding horses (and large ASPC ponies) *I* like and that consistently do VERY WELL in the show ring. I don't breed or swing to "type" fads. I *do* constantly strive to improve the quality of horses I produce, the VAST majority of which are 2nd and 3rd generation horses!!! I'd have a ton of 4th gen'ers if I'd stop selling the 3rd generation horses~LOL [/SIZE]

Breeding miniatures responsibly is not about the flavor of the day, it's about breeding correct, sound, athletic and beautiful horses that mature under 38".

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

. I also agree that the Shetlands and ponies should not be shown at AMHR nationals. We cannot bring a miniature to their shows and show. We cannot even hardship a miniature into ASPC. I love the Shetlands and think they are beautiful but they are not a miniature horse. A mini cannot compete with a Shetland and win. :no:

LOL I hear this all the time and have to laugh. I mean really folks what do you think are minis are? Where do you think they came from dropped down from the mini fairies???

Gee lets take out anything Gold Melody Boy bred.. Hmm Rowdy bred anything with any Arenosa

.. our minis came about SIMPLY AS A MARKETING PLOY. The pony market was failing.. they took some smaller ponies and called them midget ponies and it went from there suddenly what they couldnt sell for 300 bucks they were now able to sell in the thousands.

Yes they have changed over the years and IMO the change is good. Yes I came to some harsh realizations about my own program this year compared to others but.. that is one reason in fact the most important reason I go to Nationals.

Not fun to face sometimes but as a breeder it is somthing I need to do.