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esty

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I am looking for the rules on height protests, Could someone point me in the right direction please.[amha]

I was at a show a couple of weeks ago and there were horses there that i know were at least 35 if not 36 inches tall. My horse is a bit over 34 on somedays and somedays a bit under and i stood it right next two two of these in the warm up arena and they TOWERED mine. One was a big pretty Bay stallion who did quite well, the other was a bay pinto stallion I am not sure how it did.

Does the person protesting have to be there and does it have to be at a show?

Also , I live in California and the horses are in Oregon , Possibly Washington will that matter?

Is it a local club issue or an amha issue?

Thanks,

Esty
 
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Relic

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At one of the sanctioned shows l stood beside what l thought was a yearling hahahaaa but later found out it was a weaner. Anyway our mature mare is just under 33" and this Weaner was just as tall though not as filled out as our mare. l strongly believe who you are counts at many shows...anyway the protests you asked about are on page 83 in the rule book.
 
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Neil

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Is it a local club issue or an amha issue?
If the show was an AMHA show it would be an AMHA issue.

The rule can be found in the 2008 Official Rule Book but note that this rule has a correction that is not in the printed version of the book but is on the "2008 Rulebook Correction" attachment.

On the AMHA web site ithe rule can be found on page 19 of:

http://www.amha.org/rulebook/Show-Rules.pdf

GR-050 PROTESTS

A. All protests shall be handled according to the following:

1. Any protest (excluding height protest) must be made in

writing to the show manager or the ring steward not

later than one hour after the completion of the last

class of the show. The protest shall be accompanied

by a $100.00 deposit, which shall be returned to the

protestor in the event the protest is sustained. If a

protest is not sustained the $100.00 protest fee shall

go to the profits of the show. (Amended 11-10-00, effective

01-02)

2. Protests shall be adjudicated by a protest committee of

three (3) show officials not involved in the dispute.

3. The Protest Committee shall promptly meet and adjudicate

the issue, make effective its decision upon the

parties in interest and report its determination to all

parties. A show Protest Committee may disqualify a

person and/or his/her entries for the duration of the

show.

4. The decision of the Protest Committee may be

appealed to the AMHA Show Rules Committee with an

additional $100.00 and all copies of paperwork sent to

the protestee by the protestor. A second appeal may

be made to the AMHA Board of Directors with an additional

$100.00 fee. The decision of the Board of

Directors is final.

5. No protest of approved show rules or Show Rules

Committee’s previous interpretations of any rule will be

allowed on show level.

B. Horses involved in a protest shall upon request:

1. Be presented within one hour of notification.

2. Remain in full view of at least one show official, or designated

person, until protest is finally resolved.

3. Horse may not be trimmed, medicated, ridden, exercised,

or otherwise altered prior to final resolution of

the protest. Any such alteration will result in the disqualification

of the animal for the remainder of the

competition with forfeiture of all prizes and entry fees

paid by the owner.

C. Protest concerning height:

1. The measurement of a horse may be protested at

any time prior to the end of the show so long as the

horse is present on the show grounds. The protest

must be made in writing accompanied by a $100

deposit. (Amended 12-07, effective 02-08)

2. The horse shall be remeasured by a show official other

than the show official that measured all animals at the

show, and in the presence of the original measurer and

at least two (2) other show officials.

3. If there is no discrepancy in measurements from the first

measurement to the measurement after protest, the

original measurement stands as official.

4. If there is a discrepancy in measurements from the first

measurement to the protest measurement, the protester

has the option of accepting the protest measurement,

or having the show veterinarian remeasure

the horse without added protest fees. If opting for the

show veterinarian, his/her measurement will be final. In

the absence of a show veterinarian, a member of the

show’s Protest Committee shall measure the horse.

5. All measurements must take place in direct view of the

owner/trainer of protested animal, and the individual

who filed the protest.

6. Any animal submitted for an official measurement must

show no evidence of lameness. If lameness is determined

by the show veterinarian, this shall result in disqualification

of the animal for the balance of the competition,

and the owner of the animal forfeits fees and

winnings for the entire show for the protested animal.
 
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esty

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Thanks, One more question, make that two. Can the protester waive being there? Does that person need to be an amha member?

This is in the rules.

All measurements must take place in direct view of the

owner/trainer of protested animal, and the individual

who filed the protest.
 

Neil

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Thanks, One more question, make that two. Can the protester waive being there? Does that person need to be an amha member?

This is in the rules.

All measurements must take place in direct view of the

owner/trainer of protested animal, and the individual

who filed the protest.
I don't see any thing in the rules that the party that protests has to be an AMHA member, just the horses need to be registered with the AMHA but that is handled with the entry forms/registration papers.

As you see from the rules the individual who filed the protest needs to be there. I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to be since they would need to see the remeasuring and if nothing else hopefully get their $100 back.
 

esty

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Since the next show where these horses will be are two states away, and over a 40 hour drive it just isnt very cost effective.

Thanks for the info, I think i will call amha tomorrow and ask a few questions.
 

mininik

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Just be ready to have your 34" horse protested, too, if you decide to go through with this. He won't be remeasured with any slack.
If you are at all concerened that your horse might measure over it may be best to have someone else do the protesting who wouldn't lose anything from it. You certainly don't make any friends protesting, though I agree that it's something people need to do more often.
 

bingo

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Not being snide but why would you protest a horse that is showing 2 states away as opposed to protesting it right then and there at the show you were at competing against it ? When you saw how large the horse appeared compared to others. I mean I guess I am just asking why wait until the show is over and all the horses have gone home? I must say I understand and appreciate the rule that the protester must be present. Everyone has a right to face their accusers

I agree with Mininik if you have a horse that can and has measured over 34 yourself might wanna rethink protesting.
 
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esty

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I am fairley new to showing and didnt even know about protests until after the show and i was telling some folks about the size of horses that were there, they told me about the protesting thing so i was verifing what they said. I also put a call into the amha office with my questions and will post the answers here when i get them.

I am not worried if my horse gets protested, a trainer measured him at the show a least a half inch shorter than i have ever done it.

Esty
 

mininik

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When you protest someone's horse they measure it very strictly, trainer or no. Everything is questioned from the ground, to the temperature, to the horse's stance and hooves, to the stick, to the measurer, to the person setting the horse up, etc. Most trainers can get a horse to measure shorter or taller as needed, but it's not fool proof, especially when there is a protest. I was recently at an AMHR/ASPC show where this same situation played out. A trainer's client with a horse who measures about 38" protested another trainer's horse that was obviously over 38". The horse was measured, and remeasured and measured again all over 38". There were several stewards, the trainers and a crowd of spectators. Shortly after that, the person who first protested had their horse protested and even though the horse had always measured under for shows after three measurements were taken it measured over with the trainer setting the horse up. The only bright side was I believe that both horses were ASPC registered. If you are protesting AMHA and your horse isn't also AMHR, I wouldn't chance it.
 
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mininik

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I'm not trying to scare Esty, just giving her a warning about what I know COULD happen and what I HAVE SEEN happen just a couple months ago. I'm not saying to not protest. Please, protest! I will. I'm just saying it may be wise to have someone protest who won't be effected by it. Even if the protested horse measures in there is still likely to be a backlash as it's not a fun feeling being on the stand in front of everyone, basically being called out as a cheater or a liar.

Alison - Have you put your money where your mouth is and actually protested that trainer's horses at any of those shows?
 
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shelia

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I was just thinking, that the sould give a reward for those who prtest and get it right. You lose $100.00 if you are wrong, but if they offered even $25.00 or a credit with AMHA more people would protest and other people would be less likely to cheat. It would bog down the show with too many protests because who wants to lose $100.00. It may for the first few times but soon people will be more careful.
 

mininik

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I would think if you were so passionate you would keep protesting, especially in cases where it's obvious. It shouldn't be hard to get such a concerned group to stand together at the time of measurement to be sure the horse is stood up squarely and measured fairly. If that happens and the trainer continues to have horses measured out their behavior WILL stop.
 
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