Post Tying.

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Carly Rae

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Hi,

A while ago I posted about my 2yo Colt Toby, and his attitude and disobedience. I have had so many helpful comments that I really appreciate. Today Toby was in one of his moods, didn't want to cooperate, so I did one of the suggestions- Post Tying.

I tried to do easy stuff with him this morning, just had him tied to a post, I touched him all over, lifted his feet, brushed him and he was... Horrible. He swung around, reared up, kicked his back legs when I had a hold of them. So I tied him to a post for about 30 minutes, he was still pawing at the ground. So I have taken him into the house yard tied to a tree away from the others, I will be working on the float in that area so I can keep an eye out on him.

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He has been tied to the tree for about 5-10 minutes now and I'm not exaggerating here as soon as I went to tie him to that tree he was rearing up making it so hard for me to tie him.

So a few questions:

-How long should I tie him for?

-Should I repeat this every day? If so what if he is not misbehaving, do I still tie?

-What if he doesn't stop at all and has been tied all day? Let him go, keep him tied?

I ended up getting photos as I had my camera with me at the time. These are more so I can look back to see any improvement. I state this as "Day one" I have never had this much problem with a horse in my life. He is nearly worse than when I was working with the 4 un handled giveaways....

Please let me know if I should do anything else or if i'm doing something wrong. Also I have just altered the knot so its not dangling so he cant get his legs caught. And he has a little more lead now, not much though.
 
Okay, so my plans were ruined. It started pouring down rain, I bolted outside to Toby, tripped on a stepping stone and went flying into the ground on rocks. Skinned my hands and knees and did my ankle again... Yay
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. So I put Toby in his stall and fed him.
 
You have him tied too short. He should be able to stand comfortably, with his head and neck in a relaxed position. The way he is tied here, even if he stands quietly he would not be able to stand comfortably...and that alone will cause him to fuss. The only time I would tie that short is of I were trying to do something with the horse and were trying to keep him still enough to get the job done.
 
I did loosen his lead so he was more comfortable, and in the photos he was wrapped around the tree from walking around it, which I fixed as well. Please excuse my errors. Im getting a little confused now. Is tying to a post a bad thing? I was just doing what a lot of people suggested to me to teach him patience. Please let me know whether I should continue this or stop.
 
Horses need to know how to stand tied. The rope needs to be long enough so that he can stand in a relaxed postion without any tension on the rope. Untie him when he is standing quietly. If you untie him while he's acting up, then you've taught him that acting up gets him untied.

However, tying is not meant to be punishment for the horse. If he won't stand still when you groom him and kicks when you clean his hooves, he needs trained for it. Do what makes him anxious (if just touching his legs makes him react, then just touch them for now, or even just the air around his legs, and work up to cleaning his hooves), and keep the pressure on until he stands still, and then release the pressure and give him a few seconds break (and as soon as he stands, release the pressure, before he starts moving again). You can train a horse to accept anything through pressure and release.
 
Thanks for that. Ill keep all that in mind for next time.

So I have to keep him tied so he is comfortable, release when he is quiet. But sometimes when he stands quiet, I take him off the lead and walk him away then he acts up when leading. How should I respond to this? Tie him back up or go do something different? You said it should not be used as a punishment, so if he acts up after and I tie him back up, that's a punishment, right?

Its not that he reacts when I touch his legs, its when I pick them up and go to pick them he tries to force them back down out of my hand. Or he tries to walk away or swing his rear end away to try get me to let go then he starts kicking it until I let go because I cant held it any longer. Some times when I hold his back leg he uses me as a 'step' to get his whole hind end up, which I let go otherwise he will end up hurting me or himself.

How do I get him to stand quiet while I brush him and lift his hooves. Should I just keep doing what I am doing and let him move around till he gives up? Should I teach him to stand tied first? Then after he knows to stand, then should I go into brushing? I just dont know what to do when he throws himself side to side when I try brush him ect. Sometimes he is fully into me with all his weight trying to push me out of his way with his belly. And when I tie him up he pushes me and nudges me really hard in the tummy with his head trying to shove me out of his way.

I wish he was like Kevin. I have literally just given Kevin love ever since I took him in and all he has ever done was respect me. Kevin will stand while being brushed, he doesn't even have to be on a lead, although when you brush his mane he likes you to hold his head in one arm so he can close his eyes and rest there, its so cute, he will also just fall asleep on you if you sit on a chair and hold his head and stroke his forehead. I got Kevin as a wild foal. And I have never had any drama like this. I guess its just the type of horse, At least I have one. I am going to geld Kevin as soon as I get a job, I want him to stay my little boy forever, and we already have Toby for breeding.

When Kevin is tied this is how he will stand at all times, I wish Toby would do the same.
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it takes more than tying a horse up for awhile to teach him his manners. yes, they should know how to stand tied, and stand quietly. However--when it comes to the fussing and kicking--simply tying him up and letting him stand will not fix it. Yes, he does first need to stand quietly while tied. when ut comes to brushing him or picking up his feet, can you get your mom to help you? Put a second lead rope on him and have her hold it so that he is sort of cross tied. That will limit his side to side movement. Start out ribbing him with a cloth--that eliminates any possibility that be finds the brush too harsh on his skin.

picking up his feet--pick one up and hang on to it as long as you safely can. if you must let it go pick it up again immediately. Perhaps have your dad help with this--someone stronger than you that can hold the leg up easier than you can. It isn't easy to fix this once the horse is spoiled about holding his feet up. Has Toby always been this way or was he okay at one time and this is a new thing?

if Toby is misbehaving when you lead him this has to be fixed during the leading g--tying him up won't fix this for you. He must respect you and learn his leading manners.

If you continue to have problems with him I won have to recommend gelding him too. A stallion must be well behaved and well mannered. Gelding will not automatically make him well behaved but it will go a long way in making him easier to train. Those hormones can cause huge issues with attitude and manners.

What do you currently use for leading Toby? An ordinary nylon halter? I would recommend a good rope halter--I personally have no liking for rope halters but I admit they have their place. I like the Stacy Westenfall halter for difficult horses but even the cheaper plain Weaver halter offers more control than a plain nylon halter. A chin chain can also work well, but is much harsher. I recently had need of something with more control for one ukrse--I did not want to go to a chain so bought a rope halter. I am using it with good results. My pony wasn't being bad mannered--he had just learned how to run through a plain halter and was impossible to stop. With the rope halter--I can hang onto him. I am also using it on another pony now--that fellow, because it is different from what he was used to, seems slightly more relaxed in it. For him, any little bit of relaxation is good and so I will continue using it on him.

This pony--for reasons I will not go into-cannot be tied. He ties fine, until one wants to do anything with him, then he becomes dangerous. So--I groom him and trim his feet with his rope on the ground or over his neck. I can work with him that way. If I tied him up and tried to do the same thing he would likely kill me. Poor guy--he has his reason for being this way and I can live with never tying him up. there is always an exception to the rule and he is mine.
 
Thank you.

Yes my mum would be happy to help me out. I can lift his hooves and hold them, just when he levers his whole hind end off the ground using the leg I am holding to help him up. Should I just hang on? Or should I let go then pick back up?

Toby was just like Kevin, he had no attitude like this. Then we noticed his testicles dropped, he always had them tucked up when he was little, then a few weeks ago after they 'dropped' he began prancing around the girls, mounting Willow when she was on season ect. Then with all that I got his attitude. His attitude changed so suddenly. This all started a couple months ago.

Yes, Toby just wears a nylon one like Kevin's one in the photo. I make rope halters as well, but would it be better to buy one?

Thanks again.
 
First of all if he is full of energy all ready teaching one to tie will not be successful. You need to get his feet moving and get him to respect you. Picking up the feet will also be a battle. I wouldn't make him run and run til he looses air but make him work and learn something. Once he is using the thinking side of his brain and not a ball of energy and wants to stand there try picking up the feet, don't be at a rush at first just baby steps and try not to let him take his foot away from you. Once you are done working with him then you tie him up in a relaxed position and leave him there for at least an hour. Tie him after each training session. This gives him a chance to think about the lesson he just had and also patience when it comes to being tied.
 
We resently found out a way to help keep a horse from pulling his/her foot out of your hands.

While I can usually hold on and keep the foot, my business partner can't. We were told that when the horse keeps trying to pull its foot from you, to suddenly release the foot. The horse, not suspecting it, ends up not landing flat on its hoof. It doesn't hurt the horse. My business partner tried it and the horse soon quit trying to pull its foot from her. It takes time and patience.
 
Thank you all.

JMS Miniatures, you said to "Get his feet moving and get him to respect you" What exactly do you mean by that? Get his feet moving by lunging him? How do I make him not a ball of energy? Sorry if that seems to be a silly question.

When I lead Toby, sometimes he doesn't like to give me my personal space. Sometimes he just walks really close which is ok, but sometimes he pushes into me. Not shoving or anything, but like trying to get me to go his way which Is annoying having his weight on me all the time and Im sure its not the right way to be leading. So how can I get him to walk a distance away from me without being on top of me invading my space?

The times he is really bad to handle is when he is not near his girls. Oh boy does he play up if he isn't near them. How should I deal with that? Just keep him close to the other horses at all times? Or teach him that he cant always have his way and not be around the others?
 
Id be the happiest person alive if I could Improve his behavior even the slightest. Its a lot of errors in little places which has created a big problem. Thank you all for your help.
 
One,if possible, you need to pen him separate from the girls. He is getting too posessive of them. You chould never have a fight on your hands when removing him from mares.

With crowding your space, use a hand whip or a small stick (works better). Hold it at hip level, pointing at horse. If he crowds you, he will be poked by the stick. He will eventually start keeping his distance because he gets poked when invading it.

From what it sounds like, you have your hands full with a once rescued colt that now has figured out what girls are. You will have to be on your toes with him because he sounds like he can be dangerous to humans, if is attitude is not curbed. Right now he is not using the brain between is ears, just what he thinks is his brain (his testicles).
 
When I first got my stallion at 2 years old he had a bad habit of cutting in on a circle when I was lunging him, in or outside of a round pen. He quickly learned that if I said "out" that meant he better get back out on the circle, if not I would poke him hard with the end of the lunge whip so it was uncomfortable which most of the time was his side. Now if he even thinks about cutting in and I tell him out he quickly jumps to the outside and doesn't even try it again.
 
absolutely you must teach him that he does not always get his way. He must learn to behave whether he is near the girls or not--if you never take him away from the other horses he is going to be impossible in future. I would keep him away from them all the time--he can.stay on his own until he learns that there are things to being a horse besides MARES.

a few days ago there were FB posts about a runaway mini stallion. Seller said the horse was easy to handle but he had the stallion out on pasture with mares and apparently never took the horse out of the pasture. Buyer took horse home and discovered the horse wouldn't stay home. he kept getting out and terrorizing the neighboring acreages. When a woman tried to catch him he went at her, knocked her down twice and bit her. Absolutely unacceptable behavior from a stallion --last I heard the new owner had resold the horse. I haven't heard if the guy was able to keep track of the stallion looks g enough to hand him over to the next buyer or not. Everyone agreed that it was a shame no one had mannered the horse--a horse like that should be gelded once he gets to that point. You do not want Toby to get to that point!!

there is an Australian book--I think it is called Fear Free Horse Training by Neil Davies. I think you would find it very interesting. It is a lot about saddle training but there is ground work and general basic information about handling horses too. I recommend it.
 
He actually has been locked away from them for about 2 days. This morning I went to see him... No Toby. Only a rug scrunched up on the ground and a broken fence... So he broke down our good fence.. and is out with the mares. Yay... More repairs

And everyone said keep him away from the mares. So its kind of like weaning a crazy foal? But I cant get him way separate from the girls, I can keep him in a different paddock but he will have contact to them through the fence. Does it have to be so they cant meet at all, or so they cant see eachother? Or can they have through fence contact. Not like the girls will go say hello anyway, they get sick and tired of him sometimes.

Should I completely isolate him? Or can he have the company of Kevin, my colt?
 
I think part of his problem is being seperated from his companion, as horses are herd animals. I would start by letting him be with the colt as long as they do not fight (some stallions do). Having a companion may settle his nerves in regards to busting fences and escaping enclosures.

Eventually, as he matures further along, he may need to be kept seperate from the others, as will the colt because sexually mature stallions will a) breed any mare they find, b) fight with eachother to establish and maintain dominance and c) get more and more posessive and therefor aggressive over "their" herd, making them difficult/dangerous to handle.

My stallions are kept seperate from eachother in individual corrals so they can see eachother but not touch or fight. They are not running with the broodmare band, to avoid aggression issues, but are all respectful enough to be corraled with mares to breed live cover and even stay with the mare with a foal at her side. I do not tolerate aggression in my studs as it is dangerous. You may consider building a stud pen out of steel rails or multuple thick plank boards. Even though they are minis, they are still strong. A single 2x4 or lovely picket fence section simply is not strong enough unfortunately to contain an animal who wants out. Every horse and every situation is different, so you have to do what works for you as long as everyone is kept safe.
 
Thank you AmySue.

Everything is getting worse by the day...
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I just dont know what to do anymore. I had him tied to a post this morning to give him a brush and practice lifting his feet. You know what? He was pretty good with all that. he stood to be brushed, he hates the curry comb but he dealt with it for me. When I lifted his feet he kicked and fussed a few times then he stood nicely once he knew I wasn't giving up. I was so happy thinking we had a good start to the lesson, which we did..

Then after we did a while of brushing and all, I thought I might just go see if he will lead nicely too... Nope... I got him on his lead, gave him a pat telling him he was a good boy. Then I untied him and went to open the gate, thats when it all went bad.. He saw that I was opening the gate and barged through slamming me into the post. I didnt let go, then I had to shut the gate and he was pawing at the ground trying to jerk the lead out of my hand. Then we began walking... Well more like him full pushing me and Im trying to stand my ground. I tried your suggestion Magic Marker Minis, using a stick to keep his distance, he didnt even care about it, just kept invading my space.

So once I got to the place I wanted, i tried to get him to stop and stand beside me. But he refuses to stand beside me, only in front of me facing me... Then I cant do anything, but try maneuver myself back beside him, but he stands in front of me for his advantage... If I make an abrupt move, move the crop near him ect he will full rear at me... Now Toby is a very small light weight mini and is easy to stand over him, but Im afraid, he has the upper hand when rearing at me.

So I used another one of your suggestions, which I believe Minimor suggested to me. Bring my dad in to help... He ended up spinning around and rearing at dad with full force and busted dads knuckles open.. Then dad tried controlling him but Toby wouldn't budge. Dad gave him back to me (My parents are not horse people) and I tried to lead him again then I tried to take a stop, again he was in front of me, if I try to stand back at his side we are just going in circles... Then to end the lesson he came at me rearing his hooves went either side of my waist hitting me in the side and I just ended up kind of bear hugging him around the neck and I forced him back off me pushing him with everything I had.

Then I gave up, you all said "Dont give up" but I just couldn't do it anymore. I need to be able to get him right away from those girls... But how, I dont know... He will just break through the fence, and with the layout of our yard he will always be able to see the girls. Our place is very open.

How can I get him to start thinking with his brain again? He is becoming dangerous... And Toby is the apple of my eye... well was, before he became like this.
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I am considering once I get a job to send him off to be professionally trained.. Or I go to some training school or something... I am failing miserably with all this training stuff. I have this health problem, I'm not too sure what it is, I have to see a doctor. But it could have something to do with my nerves, skin or muscles. The problem is that everything hurts 10x worse, its hard to explain, but if I lightly scratch my ribs I feel winded like I have just been punched in the ribs. And if I am being poked lightly in the shoulder I feel like crying in pain, I cant lean on things like a table or a wall because it hurts, and the pain lingers for an abnormal amount of time. Which is why it makes it hard for me to handle Toby because he can easily hurt me... But anyway this topic isn't about me, sorry.

What would you do if Toby was rearing at you? What should I do?

I am going to separate him anyway possible, he doesn't fight with Kevin so he can have him as company. I will probably have the girls out in the big paddock and the boys with electric fence out the side. I cant really explain it easily, I probably could draw it and post it but that may be unnecessary. But The big paddock is just straight across our property. We have about an acre as our 'house yard' and after that its fenced right across and the horses have the rest of the 13 acres we have.

And so I could run electric fence from our front fence, to the fence that divides the house yard from the paddock. Thats all id need to do as they will be closest to our neighbors fence. But then he can still 'talk' to the girls through the fence. Is that ok that he can still have some contact? Or should I bring it back off the paddock fence so he cant reach the girls at all?

Sorry for the big reply.
 
Just another thing. Toby is very safe to be around when not on the lead. Like if you go in and walk around the yards she will come right up for a cuddle and a scratch then goes and does his own thing. His is very easy approachable and you wouldn't think he had any behavior issues.. Its just when he gets bored on what you are doing when on the lead, or simply wants his own way. Then its it the worst when you try take him away from the girls. He doesn't like to be controlled, he likes to control.

I just thought I might mention that so people dont get the wrong idea and think he will rear up at you for being near him or anything.
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Wow.
I've been reading your posts and kind of got lost in all of them, so I picked this one to respond to.
You're floundering.

I think you need to back off, take a break, and figure out what it is you want to do with your horse. Specifically. Step-by-step. Then you really do need to take only the baby steps you mentioned. If you or anyone else is/or was getting hurt, get out of there; make sure the horses have food and water and reassess the situation. I think you really need to have an immediate goal. Tying a horse to a post for a few hours to teach patience may not be the best first goal? You've received some good advice in various threads here. I personally would not adhere to all of it, not because it's "wrong" but because I don't feel it would work for my horse/s. You have to come to your own accommodation of what you feel you can do with your horse/s. And if something's not working or it's too frustrating, then slow down and try to do things in smaller increments.

To pick on one question in your post....
What would you do if Toby was rearing at you? What should I do?
No one can answer that for you... ...not fairly, anyway.
My answer to that would be: I don't know Toby, but I'd smack the crap out of him. However, that isn't a fair answer, because I don't see/fully understand the circumstances under which he did this to you.

I think you're looking for an easy answer, and I don't think it exists (as a dumb newbie, I searched for quite awhile and never found it.)
 

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