Post delivery pain in broodmare

[Dream]

It is not abnormal for a mare to be uncomfortable after foaling as the uterus still contracts for awhile afterwards. I wanted to point out that since Banamine is a smooth muscle relaxant it is a good idea to wait until the placenta is passed before giving it. Smooth muscle contraction in the uterus is needed to pass the placenta.

Also, there can be negative consequences from giving too much Banamine. It is similar to Bute in that it can cause kidney damage at high doses especially if the mare is dehydrated. Dose her according to her weight and err on the side of a little low. This should be able to control her normal post foaling pain. If she has uncontrollable pain at normal doses you should always consider a more serious problem such as those already mentioned or a surgical colic.

Michelle Courtemanche DVM

 

[blueprintminis]

Thanks everyone for all the wonderful advice.

"This year she even passed the placenta with the foal, and it was two weeks early, that's even worse. My vet says that it is better if they foal, and pass the placenta an hour afterwards, as it gives the body a bit more time to adjust. I have never had one wait that long."

This is interesting in that this foal was about 3 weeks early AND the mare passed the placenta as soon as she got up from the delivery. It was all still attached to the umbilical cord.

ALSO: " Also, there can be negative consequences from giving too much Banamine. It is similar to Bute in that it can cause kidney damage at high doses especially if the mare is dehydrated. Dose her according to her weight and err on the side of a little low. This should be able to control her normal post foaling pain. If she has uncontrollable pain at normal doses you should always consider a more serious problem such as those already mentioned or a surgical colic."

Thanks for this advice. Yes, I guess dosing properly according to weight and then if there is still much discomfort give the vet a call to rule out something serious.

You guys/gals are the best!

 

[nootka]

I don't routinely give Banamine, but I do give it if the mare is not standing for a reasonable amount of time, etc. after she's passed the placenta.

I have consulted w/my vet and I do before I give the Banamine, to review symptoms. He has given me a bottle of it to have on hand as he is about an hour or two away most times. He tells me w/my 250 lb. mare, for example, to give her a 2 cc dose and see if that does anything. If not, I give another .5 cc for that time period, then the next time, if she needs it, I try again at a lower dose.

I have only ever had to give two doses to one mare, years ago. She was completely fine w/a low dose both times, and stood and allowed her filly to nurse.

My vet told me that it would be wise and sometimes all they need is a little help w/the pain, to go with a lower dose, as Michelle above, has suggested.

I would advise anyone w/a mare that does not begin to stand up and stop acting crampy within a few hours of the birth (usually after the placenta has come out, she should be up more than she's down and for sure not rolling and thrashing) to call their vet and be sure you are doing the right thing.

Liz M.

 

[Minimor]

"This year she even passed the placenta with the foal, and it was two weeks early, that's even worse. My vet says that it is better if they foal, and pass the placenta an hour afterwards, as it gives the body a bit more time to adjust. I have never had one wait that long."
This is interesting in that this foal was about 3 weeks early AND the mare passed the placenta as soon as she got up from the delivery. It was all still attached to the umbilical cord.

Hmm, every last one of our mini mares have delivered this way--the placenta is delivered with one good contraction a couple seconds after the foal arrives--except for once (and that was a Morgan mare) we've never had one take time to clean after foaling--and never once have we had one get crampy or colicky. So, your theory isn't a hard & fast rule...

 

[Sue_C.]

So, your theory isn't a hard & fast rule...

In foaling, there is no HARD and FAST RULE...that it's the first and formost thing to remember. But if my Vet, and my Mother agree...that's good enough for me.

But this one mare, in this situation, did need the banamine to prevent her from rolling over onto her foal... This particular mare doesn't handle pain well, that is a fact, but I don't think it the time and place to "toughen her up".

Hmm, every last one of our mini mares have delivered this way--the placenta is delivered with one good contraction a couple seconds after the foal arrives--except for once (and that was a Morgan mare) we've never had one take time to clean after foaling--and never once have we had one get crampy or colicky.

Unusual, that all of them do this, it isn't "normal" either. In the case I speak of, the foal was still atatched to the placenta, it did all come out together...not exactly normal.

 

[Tabitha]

Actually, Sue, I have never had one single mare that didn't clean immediately after the foal was born. I consider it perfectly normal to have the placenta delivered within seconds of the foal, and yes, the foal is still attached to the cord; the cord breaks as soon as the foal tries to stand. I've said this before--only on this board is this considered "not normal" or a problem at all. Even my vet book (Equine Research, a good one) says the placenta will often be delivered with one good push immediately after the arrival of the foal, though it's not unusual for it to take 30 to 40 minutes to be expelled.

Of course there are no hard & fast rules in foaling, but nearly everyone here on this board promotes the belief that it's abnormal and even dangerous for placentas to be delivered immediately after the foal's arrival. This is misleading.

 

[Sue_C.]

but nearly everyone here on this board promotes the belief that it's abnormal and even dangerous for placentas to be delivered immediately after the foal's arrival. This is misleading.

Abnormal and dangerous...who said THAT?? Different, more unusual; and more apt to cause faster and more painful contractions...YES. That is what this post was originally all about.

Like I said, it is my own Vet, who made the remark that it is easier on the mare to wait awhile to expel the placenta. I do not wish to get into a shooting match over his opinion...even if I do share it myself.

So, only this board that has people who think it different and a bit unusual?

It is considered NORMAL for the cord to be broken by the mare or foal, as they stand. This is why it is commonly recommended that the placenta be tied up prior to it being expelled, so the mare doesn't step on it and pull it out, tearing it off and possibly causing infection to set in on the small pieces left inside the mare.

In my experience, with the placenta still attached to the foal, it seldom has the weight to break on it's own.

I have bred Morgans, Quarterhorses, Appaloosas, and Pintos, in the past, and only once did a mare clean out as fast as any of my minis...don't know what the reason for this difference is. I have heard it said that miniatures are known for having thinker and harder to break cords. Could that be the cause? I don't profess to know.

 

[Tabitha]

Actually the post was originally about giving banamine post foaling, and other aspects got added into it along the way. I merely joined in to express a different point of view on the idea that faster delivery of the placenta is related to stronger cramps & colic in the mare--my experience of this says that's not the case.

Immediate delivery of the placenta is abnormal and dangerous, yes, that's been said on here, not on this thread, but there have been several other threads on here--and that's only in the last few weeks--where this topic has come up, and more than one person has said that if the placenta comes out immediately after the foal, and the foal is still attached to the cord, that it is an abnormal delivery. It's even been stated by some that if there isn't someone right there to cut the cord in these cases that the foal will not survive. That just is not so, and this board is the only place where I've ever heard anyone say that's the way it is.

I've raised foals of big horse breeds too--Morgans, Arabs & QH, and have always had them deliver same as these Minis--so for me, this is "usual" and normal. I've never had a mare that's shown any sign of having severe contractions/pains/cramps. So your vet feels that it's easier for the mare if the placenta is slow to come out. My experience tells me differently, but that's fine--I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you what my experience has been over the last 60 years of having foals born...

And yes, of course, if the placenta doesn't deliver immediately after foaling it is the usual thing to do to tie it up so that it doesn't get stepped on and torn out, I never said that wasn't the usual thing to do. It's just that I've never, ever had to do that, so it's not at all the usual thing for me to have to do.

And in my experience when the placenta is delivered completely & immediately, still attached to the foal, in most cases it does snap off on the foal's first attempt to stand. Once this year I had it come off on the filly's second attempt to stand. Never, ever have I had to cut a cord.

Whatever your experience has been, I'm just telling here what mine has been. Sorry, I thought that was allowed.