POLL CROSS ENTERING OF ASPC/AMHR HORSES AT SAME SHOW

[StarRidgeAcres]

This has been very interesting to read. Right or wrong, the only thing that keeps coming to my mind is "I'm glad I've transitioned to mostly AMHA." Again, not saying right or wrong, but I realize all groups, registries, organizations, etc. have issues and factions that disagree, but it really seems constant with AMHR/ASPC, whatever it wants to be called today. Maybe the disgreements are just more public with this group, I don't know. But what a constant mess it seems to me.

 

[Minimor]

WHY would the Mini-only exhibitors stay away if this rule change goes through, when in so many cases they would be showing against exactly the same horses they will be showing against if it doesn't go through?

I know in a few cases it may mean a few extra Shetlands showing in AMHR at a particular show....but overall, truthfully, how many AMHR registered Shetlands are currently showing ASPC instead of AMHR at any given show? How many ASPC registered Minis are showing AMHR instead of ASPC. Here all the AMHR registered Shetlands are showing AMHR, not Shetland.

 

[jeniemac]

WHY would the Mini-only exhibitors stay away if this rule change goes through, when in so many cases they would be showing against exactly the same horses they will be showing against if it doesn't go through?

Why would you reg a pony as an AMHR? Cause it didn't make the height requirement and AMHR still gives those somewhere to exibite maybe?

Yes, you are right we show against them as it stands now and don't like it much, so there is really no need for a rule or rule change.

Also the show managers added the pony classes in our area to try to get more ponies at the show..that didn't work.They got AMHR papers and started showing in AMHR classes.

This is why I believe to appease all that show the same type of stock in a height regestry introduce typing classes.

This puts the s/c in their own class-"FINE" ( those refined enough and meets the height requirment this is where they would go.. S/M crosses..arabian type) and the LESS FINE type in another(those of us that have quaterhorse type minis) and the DRAFT type( those of us that have the foundation type mini) in another, then there would be not as much complaining and fussing.

I would like to see a club try this one year. Then if it flys I would like for AMHR to reconize the classes at the Nationals.

 

[andi]

It is the principal of the rule that would possibly cause AMHR members to stay away. It can easily be seen as a technique to move "their" , AMHR's, customers towards the ASPC. Up to this point, Shetland only shows are very poorly attended, to the point that they can not afford to be put them on. So in essence, the AMHR is helping them a TON, to have a "competing" registry come and show at "their" shows. To now target those AMHR members, at THEIR shows, it is going to bother people.

 

[jeniemac]

I voted NO as I always do on this subject. I have a cherished dream that one day Minis won't be a height registry and will be a BREED registry. Which is really silly when you think of it as that has been the reasoning for AMHR/ASPC double registry is that AMHR is a height registry. Oh really? So can I register an under 38" any horse I found whatever the genetic background? NO. Truthfully AMHR should have been called AMSR - American Miniature Shetland Registry as that's how it's been treated since it's inception. I have nothing against Shetlands, it's what Mini's come from, but as a Mini breeder, many of us are working to establish Miniature Horse lines and a breed standard for Minis (DNA/PQ testing, tracking pedigrees, etc.), and I'm looking forward to the day when other BREEDS will not be allowed into either registry (AMHA & AMHR). So, will allowing a Shetland to show as both at the same show help revenue? Possibly from the Shetland breeders, but many of the pure Mini breeders may forego the shows. Six of one, half a dozen of the other on how that can play out. I hope they won't allow it, but if it's financially beneficial to ASPC/AMHR they likely will.

Only thing is we have a breed regestry..AMHA. but they have shetland crosses reg there also now...Now they are trying to "shut the barn door after all the cows have gotten out" by closing the reg on all... but AMHA reg. horses

I don't like that as I have several I would like to hardship reg AMHA but only one parent is AMHA. The other is AMHR only.

 

[LaVern]

You nailed it James. All my blabbing all these years and you put it into a few sentences.

Where is the Gee Thank you, you nice miniature people for putting a show on for us to show at? It's move over we want to show some twice.

 

[Minimor]

Cause it didn't make the height requirement and AMHR still gives those somewhere to exibite maybe?

WHAT height requirement???? ASPC does not have a height requirement, other than the pony must be no taller than 46" in order to show....if it measures over 46" it cannot show but does not lose it's shetland papers.... but there is no minimum height requirement. A pony can show in ASPC if it is 38" or 36" or even 34"

 

[susanne]

If two small equines stand side by side to be judged, assuming both meet the written breed standard, shouldn't the best horse win? Assuming this to be true, those who worry endlessly about the Shetlands taking all the wins must have little confidence in their own minis, or their definition of what a mini should look like is not in agreement with the registry.

The stated goal is the look of a full-sized horse in miniature. I feel that the champion horses in recent years are indeed the best representatives of this ideal.

 

[ohmt]

Exactly, Susanne!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

My personal opinion… BUT this rule ONLY benefits the dual registered ASPC/AMHR horses and throws the so-called "straight" AMHR Minis even further under the bus..

It is the principal of the rule that would possibly cause AMHR members to stay away. It can easily be seen as a technique to move "their" , AMHR's, customers towards the ASPC. Up to this point, Shetland only shows are very poorly attended, to the point that they can not afford to be put them on. So in essence, the AMHR is helping them a TON, to have a "competing" registry come and show at "their" shows. To now target those AMHR members, at THEIR shows, it is going to bother people.

So very true in both statements. Yes this rule doesn't affect the minis at shows much. Altho I don't see how this will bring more revenue to shows, I honestly don't. You'll be showing 1 horse but paying for 2 so that may potentially decline the number oF horses shown in paticular in AMHR. This is just another incentive for AMHR/ASPC breeders to allow to show their horse in 2 different divisions, have a chance to gain more awards, certaintly more positive for owning, showing, and breeding AMHR/ASPC horses. People say that the ASPC is in trouble, instead of getting involved once again with the AMHR why don't they look into that division and see what can change, why is people not registering, why aren't they showing? IMO if its because you have to qualify at Nationals then I don't think thats a good enough excuse. Why not make Congress be a qualifying show. If your shows don't offer pony classes request that they do.

If AMHR is helping out ASPC instead of backdooring AMHR breeders why not offer more incentives like offer a foundation halter class. I think it saved the driving division when it came to the western pretty soon you'll having nothing but AMHR/ASPC ponies showing in AMHR halter classes and I've seen such a decline of exhibitors in halter.

 

[Minimor]

If your shows don't offer pony classes request that they do.

Good luck with that! There are some clubs/show committees out there that you can ask and ask and ask again and there is no way no how they are ever going to agree to add pony classes. They wlll give you every excuse in the book and then come up with a few more besides.

 

[AshleyNicole]

I voted NO as I always do on this subject. I have a cherished dream that one day Minis won't be a height registry and will be a BREED registry. Which is really silly when you think of it as that has been the reasoning for AMHR/ASPC double registry is that AMHR is a height registry.

Oh really? So can I register an under 38" any horse I found whatever the genetic background? NO. Truthfully AMHR should have been called AMSR - American Miniature Shetland Registry as that's how it's been treated since it's inception.

I have nothing against Shetlands, it's what Mini's come from, but as a Mini breeder, many of us are working to establish Miniature Horse lines and a breed standard for Minis (DNA/PQ testing, tracking pedigrees, etc.), and I'm looking forward to the day when other BREEDS will not be allowed into either registry (AMHA & AMHR).

So, will allowing a Shetland to show as both at the same show help revenue? Possibly from the Shetland breeders, but many of the pure Mini breeders may forego the shows. Six of one, half a dozen of the other on how that can play out. I hope they won't allow it, but if it's financially beneficial to ASPC/AMHR they likely will.

It is the principal of the rule that would possibly cause AMHR members to stay away. It can easily be seen as a technique to move "their" , AMHR's, customers towards the ASPC. Up to this point, Shetland only shows are very poorly attended, to the point that they can not afford to be put them on. So in essence, the AMHR is helping them a TON, to have a "competing" registry come and show at "their" shows. To now target those AMHR members, at THEIR shows, it is going to bother people.

:yes Totally agree

 

[eagles ring farm]

I haven't read all the replys so maybe this has been brought up earlier. But shouldn't there be a mature age like 3 or 5 yrs old before ASPC horses can be measured to hardship into the amhr ? I am very uneducated as to when they are hardshipped. But seems like they are at a very early age to compete as yearlings unless I am totally clueless as to what is going on in the amhr which is quite possible.

 

[Minimor]

Lori--Shetlands have to be a full 3 years old in order to be hardshipped into AMHR. There are, of course, plenty of weanlings, yearlings and 2 year olds showing in AMHR, but those are the Shetlands that have been born into AMHR--foals from double registered parents.

 

[eagles ring farm]

Lori--Shetlands have to be a full 3 years old in order to be hardshipped into AMHR. There are, of course, plenty of weanlings, yearlings and 2 year olds showing in AMHR, but those are the Shetlands that have been born into AMHR--foals from double registered parents.

Well then you've cleared that up for me sorry for my ignorance than I guess they have more than earned their amhr registration since it is a height breed.

One more question do they have to be formally inspected to hardship? Not trying to rock the boat just wondering.

 

[Enchantress]

I have a mare I hardshipped in this year. I had to have a judge inspect and sign off on her being measured, and he looked her over and checked her bite.

 

[eagles ring farm]

I have a mare I hardshipped in this year. I had to have a judge inspect and sign off on her being measured, and he looked her over and checked her bite.

Then IMO fair and square they do qualify for AMHR registration.

Of course I have not addressed the question of this post I voted no as I think you should have to decide

what you want to show as.

Thanks everyone for helping me try to understand whats been going on with amhr/aspc

 

[Riverrose28]

James you hit the nail on the head! And, as far as the nail in the coffin remark, those nails have already been in that coffin for so long they are starting to rust. Just my opinion, but I think the AMHR horse is being pushed out, not just back but totally out, it's either join the club or leave. For those of you that say the judge will place the better horse, well not always, I've been to show, just an observer and seen pony judges place horses in first that toe out over a mini that doesn't, simply because they looked more like ASPC. ASPC/AMHR horses are placed over miniatures all the time, especially at Nationals, especially in halter. I've been showing for many years and yes I know you pay for the judges opinion, and yes not all judges are the same, but I think this is just another thing to get the straight up mini breeder to change their program to include ASPC/AMHR. I've seen it coming for years the whole breed is changing in that direction and it is even effecting AMHA. Flame away!

 

[Minimor]

I've been to show, just an observer and seen pony judges place horses in first that toe out over a mini that doesn't, simply because they looked more like ASPC.

Really? Are you sure that there were not other differences as well? In all truth there is a lot more to good/poor conformation than toeing out--if one horse toed out but otherwise had really good conformation, while the other one had a really poor hip...or a straight shoulder....a good many judges would place the toeing out over the bad hip without paying any attention to the Shetland vs. Mini issue.

 

[Belinda]

I am happy to report. That this will be brought to convention in St. Louis 2012 to be decided on by you the members and breeders, and exhibitors . And it is many thanks to all your response here and on my face book page . So folks I can say this board is willing to listen to what you the members want !!