POLL - AMHR HARDSHIPPING

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Do you want AMHR to reopen Hardshipping?

  • YES

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • DONT CARE EITHER WAY

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
"The answer is because American Shetlands are a breed! They are not a height registry like the miniatures."

ANY PONY BREED IS A HEIGHT REGISTRY. you must be under a certian height to be a pony just like you must be under a certian height to be a miniature. (Any horse breed is also as you must be OVER a certian height to be a horse!)

"As much as everyone wants it right now miniature horses are not a breed. "

So make it a breed, close the registry!

The whole and only point is the miniature horse diverged from the shetland just as the thoroughbred diverged from the arabian. They are differant. The registry should recognize and appreciate that, not turn them back into a shetland.

At the same time as the Shetland declined in this area by 50%, (that is by numbers given by shetland breeders, no registry designation indicated) the numbers of miniature horses increased as is reflected in the registry numbers themselves. Obviously there is a differance or the registries would grow at a similar rate.

Why I even try, I don't know. The registry is controlled by the pony breeders. Just waiting for the day when the full membership can vote.
 
Hello Folks: I have been reading on this subject for two days, trying to decide whether to add my opinion. Well decided I would like to clear up the reason the Falabella maybe hardshippped into the AMHR. So will give you a bit of history on Falabella/AMHR.

Back in the 60's, 70's, and even into the 80's, America and the UK were importing hundreds of Falabellas from Argentina; (of which many of these horses brought with them the appaloosa markings;ever seen a appy sheltland?) and cross bred them to American Sheltands. Thus the imported Falabellas and their Shetland cross offspring became many of the foundation horses for the AMHR. (the AMHR registration numbers indicate they were some of the very early AMHR horses)

So the AMHR agreed that since the Falabella played such an important role in the development of the AMHR, that they would still accept any registered PURE Imported Falabella or their offspring using the same hardship rule as the Shetland, horse must be inspected and measured. The Falabella always come with a pedigree, and the Falabella Registry is strictly a bloodline registry with no height restrictions.

Why do Falabella Breeders want their horses in the AMHR? Two reasons, 1) show purposes, many Falabellas mature over 34 inches with lots of legs and make awesome driving horses. So AMHA hardshipping is not an option.

2) many breeders today still like to cross the Falabella with other registered American miniatures, many hoping to obtain the appaloosa markings.

As for the AMHR registry being open, IMO, think it should be open, but with rules. Only horses with known pedigrees and only if they are inspected. I think many years ago when anyone could hardship anything into the AMHR for $15.00 sight unseen, this did not guarantee the quality of our future breeding stock.

And lastly, the AMHR has a procedure for Changing the Rules. 1) a member may submit a suggested rule change by July 1st to have it included on the November Convention agenda, 2) the rule will be discussed and voted on at the Convention, 3) then the rule is passed at the Directors meeting immediately following the Convention, and the 4) the rule gets final approval with legal wording etc at a meeting the following March.

Sorry to write a book, but I just could not resist. Wendy
 
As far is competing in the show ring I am still at a loss as to why the shetland breeders don't want to show as shetlands (are you ashamed of your breed?) were you have all the type divisions not allowed in AMHR.
I'm proud of my Shetlands and for those that qualify, I show them both AMHR and ASPC.
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In this poll, I voted to "Open" the registry and here is why... Right now AMHR accepts AMHA, Falabella, and ASPC. Since AMHA is still open (for now), essentially, the only horses AMHR is keeping out are the 34-38" grade horses -- the very horses that differentiate AMHR from AMHA.
 
I voted yes but I may regret that decision. IMO, we need to support the breeding farms that try to breed for the next best thing. I would like to see it open up to geldings cause honestly there are alot of farms out there that sell their geldings to the top dollar and the average family cannot afford, so they go to some back yard breeder and get one for $500 or less. We need to see some more family prices on these geldings. Not saying all farms do this, but there are a few.

My personal opinion AMHR needs to close the registry for allowing to hardship in AMHA and one they should not have done in the first place the Fabellas. I do not think they should close to for the ASPC ponies, even tho I do not like competeing against AMHR/ASPC horses cause come on they are are kicking butt right now, but they are improving the breeding, there is nothing to be ashamed of for that. AMHA is closing their books in the next few years, maybe AMHR should think the same when it comes to allowing AMHA and Fabellas in.
 
ANY PONY BREED IS A HEIGHT REGISTRY. you must be under a certian height to be a pony just like you must be under a certian height to be a miniature. (Any horse breed is also as you must be OVER a certian height to be a horse!)
Thats simply not true. A ponies papers are not revoked for going over height they just cant show. Huge difference! IMO this is why AMHA has put off becoming a breed because if they do they can no longer kick out oversize horses

Anyway live and let live is what I say
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I think it should be open to AMHA horses since they are already registered and several have the same background. One of my mares were supposed to be AMHA/AMHR and they never did her R paperwork. Also the sire of her foal is AMHA/AMHR and they only gave me an A breeding cert. The foal is elagable but I don't have a breeding cert for AMHR so I would have to hardship. What about that kind of situation.

Also, please forgive my rambeling, I just got home from a 6 day stay at a horse show.
 
Kaykay, I understand the point you wished to make, but with all due respect--When is the last time you KNOW of AMHA 'throwing out' oversized horses??? When is the last time that ANYONE reading here can cite of an AMHA horse losing its AMHA papers(unless by a remarkably honest owner turning them in THEMSELVES??) And, do you really believe that AMHA hasn't been allowing 'oversized' horses to show? Well, perhaps very occasionally, when the horse belongs to some newbie/'nobody' owner/exhibitor....and even then, who can cite an occasion in recent years when a MATURE horse did 'measure out' at a sanctioned show AND HAD ITS PAPERS PULLED, as the AMHA rules say it should...?

The miniature registries are 'supposed to' not only not allow to show, but ALSO, pull the registration papers on, horses that measure 'overheight'; apparently, in at least some of the other registries where height IS a factor, they allow the horses to keep their papers and potential to breed, if entire, to produce others that may NOT end up overheight?--and I strongly feel that is what the miniature registries SHOULD be 'up front' enough to do. Sadly, instead, there is what I see as a continuing stubborn hypocrisy, which doesn't reflect well on the issue of integrity and ethics....JMHO, of COURSE.

WORSE, IMO, is that now,it would seem, the AMHA aims to 'fix' the increasing 'problem'(which, in my opinion, is largely of people REALIZING that this blatant disregard for their own rules has, been and continues to, happen--and protesting accordingly(and RIGHTFULLY, also IMO!) by the looming enactment of a 'new and improved(????)' measuring system that will unequivocably allow SOME taller horses to 'magically' become of 'legal' height---and oh, by the way, they also, under conditions that I personally find to be questionable in adherence to AMHA's published rules, quickly managed to DOUBLE the 'fee' that one has to submit to have the 'privilege' of even filing a protest---does that 'smell bad' to anyone else, I wonder?

Not trying to hijack this thread...I chose the third option in the poll, but understand and sympathize with the various positions being presented here. I have ALWAYS had concerns about how AMHR was run as a 'wholly-owned"(and wholly controlled, IMO) subsidiary of ASPC, and I still do-quite honestly, it's one reason I never went seeking to show AMHR. I think BOTH registries have room for some SERIOUS improvement in the way they are run, also.

I have NO interest in the Shetlands that are shown like Saddlebreds; that's just not 'my kind of horse', big or small-and honestly, I really DON'T like stacked shoes and all of that...I have seen some classic and/or foundation Shetlands that I'm sure I WOULD/COULD like-and although I swallowed that 'line' about 'no Shetland blood' when I first got into AMHA miniatures, I learned better, and now fully accept that miniatures are LARGELY descended pretty directly from Shetlands--and it doesn't upset me.

I am not so sure that in these times that it would even be possible to 'force' a single type, although that would probably be MY personal preference, because I have ALWAYS wanted a versatile, 'all-around' athletic horse, and I would INSIST that features of ATHLETIC, SOUND conformation be retained by any and all variations in type(look at the pitiful MESS that AQHA has allowed, in breeding for a 'halter' type that can't even MOVE, much less be,or stay, sound for ANY kind of actual USE....it makes me physically ILL to see them...), but as long as I can still find some knowledgable person producing the kind of sound, sane, middle-of-the-road, balanced and with substance, build that I personally prefer ('tippy' ears, LOONNNGG necks, or tabletop top lines are NOT at the top of MY list of preferences, however that might horrify some of you....),then I could 'live with' other variations in type, as long as they included SOUNDNESS of mind and structure. If EVERYONE felt they had to breed ONLY for the 'fad of the decade', I would protest.

This has become an excellent discussion of items of serious concern to many--to me, it's ALWAYS a good thing when people can become involved in such an airing of issues!

Margo
 
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As far is competing in the show ring I am still at a loss as to why the shetland breeders don't want to show as shetlands (are you ashamed of your breed?) were you have all the type divisions not allowed in AMHR.
I'm proud of my Shetlands and for those that qualify, I show them both AMHR and ASPC.
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In this poll, I voted to "Open" the registry and here is why... Right now AMHR accepts AMHA, Falabella, and ASPC. Since AMHA is still open (for now), essentially, the only horses AMHR is keeping out are the 34-38" grade horses -- the very horses that differentiate AMHR from AMHA.

Neat Reply, I agree
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I voted yes. We are a height breed, it's that simle. Why not allow other nicer, smaller horses in?
 
Margo

I was told that it was being strongly threatened at last years AMHA National show. But I was not there. I was told it was so bad people pulled their horses from showing because they were afraid of losing their registrations. Now I cant say because I wasnt there so I can only go by what people tell me who were there. I know it was posted about extensively right here on LB by some of the people who did pull their horse from the show.

And yes I am one of those remarkably honest owners (or remarkably stupid) who revoked their own AMHA oversize mare even though to date she has never produced an oversize foal. Call me stupid because I sure do now that they changed how they measure. But heck I was naive and thought I was doing the right thing
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because I have ALWAYS wanted a versatile, 'all-around' athletic horse, and I would INSIST that features of ATHLETIC, SOUND conformation be retained by any and all variations in type but as long as I can still find some knowledgable person producing the kind of sound, sane, middle-of-the-road, balanced and with substance, build that I personally prefer ('tippy' ears, LOONNNGG necks, or tabletop top lines are NOT at the top of MY list of preferences, however that might horrify some of you....),then I could 'live with' other variations in type, as long as they included SOUNDNESS of mind and structure. If EVERYONE felt they had to breed ONLY for the 'fad of the decade', I would protest.
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"The answer is because American Shetlands are a breed! They are not a height registry like the miniatures."

ANY PONY BREED IS A HEIGHT REGISTRY. you must be under a certian height to be a pony just like you must be under a certian height to be a miniature. (Any horse breed is also as you must be OVER a certian height to be a horse!)

"As much as everyone wants it right now miniature horses are not a breed. "

So make it a breed, close the registry!

The whole and only point is the miniature horse diverged from the shetland just as the thoroughbred diverged from the arabian. They are differant. The registry should recognize and appreciate that, not turn them back into a shetland.

At the same time as the Shetland declined in this area by 50%, (that is by numbers given by shetland breeders, no registry designation indicated) the numbers of miniature horses increased as is reflected in the registry numbers themselves. Obviously there is a differance or the registries would grow at a similar rate.

Why I even try, I don't know. The registry is controlled by the pony breeders. Just waiting for the day when the full membership can vote.
... Clsoing the registry will not make us a breed because theyw ill still revoke papers on over 38" and 34" horses still a height breed just no new blood
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I vote yes - personally I have (my first mini I bought) a mini that I love and think he would do well but due to some bad people I never got his papers... and believe me I should hve known better and kicking myself to no end. I went as far as certified letters, lawyer and threaten small claims court to get nothing.

I was ready to pay to hardship into AMHA so that I could then hardship into AMHR only to find out AMHA is 5 yrs old so my 3 yr old will have to wait 2 more years before I can show him

OR like the newest mini club here in TX (area 5) is discussing to allow grade horses to be shown. I don't care if my boy has his papers on alot of aspects I love him no less but I'd love to be able to show him.

If AMHR was open to grade in general (not needing AMHA 1st) Tatonka would have been hardshipped this year and I'd be showing now we have to stay home for 2 more years (unless we really do get non reg classes with the new club) which I would love of course. I don't have much interest at this time to show AMHA so would only reg him to show R.
 
Those that say they want the breed to be a real breed, with the registry closed do realize that means that horses that go oversize have to be allowed to keep their papers, right? They remain as registered horses and can be used for breeding, though they aren't allowed to show.
 
Im not ashamed of anything!! I show my horses where they will show the best. I think any breeder does the same thing. If I have an ASPC/AMHR horse that will show better in ASPC classes thats where I show it. If I think its better suited to AMHR classes thats where I show that horse. AT most shows I show in both ASPC classes and AMHR classes
I am very proud of my AMHA/AMHR horses also. Why can't I hardship into the ASPC???? Then I could show both ways too.

A few years ago at AMHA nationals a large farm DID have their papers pulled on their horses. They had a protest IN THE RING, and the horse was measured oversized.
 
You can't hardship into ASPC because it is a breed not a height registry. I think the AMHR needs to decide which it wants to be. If it wants to be a height registry, open back up and let anything that fits the height requirements in (maybe a few other qualifiers too such as not a dwarf obviously). If it wants to be a breed, close the books entirely and register only foals from two AMHR parents and let them keep those papers no matter what their mature height.
 
Oh my, oh my, oh my. I think that a very large can of worms has been opened here and the only thing we will even remotely agree on is to disagree.
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this has been discussed for years and I am sure it will be discussed yet when I am dead. I plan to show all my minis and ponies wherever they fit and have as much fun as possible doing it. I see very little difference in temperment, size, conformation, action or attitude between my "full blood minis" and my double registered "shetlands". I just love them all.

Angie
 
It wasn't so many years ago that the Shetlands let the Hackney and the Welsh in. I don't think they kept track of what Hackney or what Welsh. The directors could open it up to minis if they wanted to, with one bang of the gavel.

The rules can change from year to year. But, no one can mess with the pedigree and percentages. The numbers never lie.
 
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I'm still wondering....how come some people will yip about how Miniature horses have a distinct type, but then they won't answer my question about what exactly does that distinct Miniature horse type look like????
 
It wasn't so many years ago that the Shetlands let the Hackney and the Welsh in. I don't think they kept track of what Hackney or what Welsh. The directors could open it up to minis if they wanted to, with one bang of the gavel.

The rules can change from year to year. But, no one can mess with the pedigree and percentages. The numbers never lie.
It was even less years ago that AMHR allowed anything with Hackney or Welsh or whatever other crosses or "blood" in as long as it was 38 or under.

Lets remember that AMHA is still allowing any type of crosses and any type of "blood" into the registry as long as it meets height and that height in 2009 will only allow more of these crosses in for the next 4 years!

Frankly I really don't understand how that means much when comparing Shetlands to Miniatures? It is all one and the same when it comes to allowing outcrosses!

So yes you are correct nothing changes percentages the numbers simply don't lie! Miniatures are not now nor where they ever a "pure" breed JMO
 
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