Please share your thoughts/experience/advice

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Hi all - hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. I'm rather confused by a mare's condition at present.

Background:

Ultrasound last November was "unsure/recheck". Then in January '11 ultrasound revealed "NO" (not pregnant).

Speed up to April and she goes to pasture with stallion.

She has not foaled and has no foals nursing on her.

She is a broodmare as she has foaled 3 babies for us.

She's been on lush pasture - and about 2 acres of pasture so plenty to eat and she's plenty fat - not obese as the photos below will show (in my opinion anyway). All the horses in her harem are obviously getting plenty to eat on that pasture.

We have not noticed her breeding with the stallion but who can watch over a pasture 24/7?

So now speed up to last week.

I had noticed she seemed to have a bag - most broodmares in my opinion and here at least, seem to retain some sort of pouch.

We checked her and actually expressed white milky substance from her teats. Imagine our hearts jumped.

Well that was last week - we brought her up to the barn and I"ve been checking her bag twice daily.

She's somewhat puffier now and there's also a puffiness in front of her bag.

She is actually bigger in her bag than the broodmare who is due to foal mid to late July!

I really am positive no other foal has nursed on her out in the pasture. She did not foal this year so has not had a foal of her own nursing either.

Hubby wonders if perhaps the grass has been rich enough to cause this milk bag? Does that have any factor at all?

I can't believe false pregnancy although that's probably what most will say.

Few days ago we found yet another mare with the very same thing. She too did not foal in 2011 and has been with the same stallion on the same pasture since April. She too has somewhat of a bag and giving a white milky substance.

NOW with 2 of them ..... I'm asking for your advice as how coincidental could two of them be missed with ultrasounds?

I guess my question is that I have never needed to check broodmares before that were not bred - do they all retain enough bag and milky white substance if milking their teat? Never a need to check any before that were not pregnant.

I've asked another breeder already and they have not had this happen before but then maybe they don't necessarily check unbred broodmares either to know??? Not doubting them of course but thought you might have something similar and known the cause.

Should I be concerned?

I took these photoes just two days ago specifically for this post.

She does NOT have any of the other symptoms. Her belly is not pregnant looking to me or "v" shaped for milk to be expressed nor does she have the pointy butt or hips. She is certainly not elongigated by any means.

Would her 24/7 diet of good pasture have enough weight on her that these symptoms wouldn't be as apparent? That doesn't make sense to me. And should I bring the other mare up also?

I realize ultrasounds can be wrong but for 2 of them who've been ultrasounded twice?

Any thoughts are appreciated if you have experience with this. She does not look pregnant in any way to me but yet she has a bag along with puffiness in front of the bag and we are expressing a white milky substance without effort:

 

[Eagle]

I must admit, she doesn't look pregnant to me but yes US can give the wrong result. Most of my experienced mares can be milked even when they don't have foals or aren't pregnant. The swelling in front could well be caused by flies biting her (you know the tiny midgy flies) I have 2 mares like that right now.

P.S she is adorable

and she looks in great condition

 

[Robin_C]

I experience this in my open broodmares every year. All on grass 24/7, all being fed individually (and well) in addition to their pasture and supplemental grass hay. Ample weight, but not obese. Udders and area in front of udders can be puffy, but the udder itself is usually flabby to only semi-full feeling. One can easily express almost pure white, thin "milk". All mares were open, not even exposed to a stallion. I believe some people refer to this as "witch's milk," and there are many opionions as to why this happens: hormonal changes in the mares, changes in grass, etc., etc. I have only ever seen this in experienced multiparous broodmares and they have experienced no problems such as mastitis, etc. It goes away in the fall and winter.

 

[Eagle]

anyone who has breast fed a child will tell you that it is possible to express "milk" years after finishing to feed a baby.

gross sorry!

 

[ohmt]

Do you have a picture of her bag you could post? We do have one mare who retains her bag and milks 365 no matter if she had a foal or not. Some of my other mares who have had foals always have some bag too (i never go by the pooch in the front as most of my mares get that when they are at what i consider their healthy broodmare weight). Just looking at your mares pictures I would say she is not in foal, but we all know how tricky some mares are!

 

[targetsmom]

Sounds a lot like the mare we had with a "false" pregnancy in 2007. If they get in foal (e.g. positive on US) and then lose the foal within a certain time period, sometimes the message doesn't get through and the hormones keep getting produced as if the mare were still pregnant. I am sure there are better ways of saying, but you get the idea. Certain pregnancy tests - the ones dependent on hormones - will continue to give a positive result. I suggest the Wee Foal 120 (good up to 300 days gestation) which (unless they changed it) tests for something the FOAL produces. Our mare had ALL the signs of pregnancy, bagging up right on schedule, milk went from clear to white, going across the color strip on my test strips, and then the changes just stopped. On her, we had an external US which showed (not 100%, but a good clue) that she was not pregnant. A half hour later she came back into heat and gave us a definitive answer.

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

wow thank you for the informative and quick answers - LB always the place to go - thank you all.

I guess the majority rules that she's not pregnant and this bag & fluid is of no concern and not unusual for a broodmare. she'll be happy to return to her pasture buds. LOL

I'm so glad I didn't lock her up under camera - she's been close to the barn with the other two that are due in a few weeks. But certainly trading her huge green pasture for a small dry lot wasn't an even trade and she sure doesn't need the grain LOL LOL

Thank you all. I did take a photo of her udder few mins ago while feeding but not sure it turned out very well. That's a hard thing to do upside down with my droid. LOL

Thanks too for the compliments on Tizzy - she's always been a favorite of mine and is the sweetest gal too. She has wonderful foals and I was truly disappointed she didn't rebreed for this year.

Take care everyone and enjoy the holiday weekend - Tiz will thank you for convincing me to return her to the wide open ~ LOL

 

[Flying minis]

Yup, have seen this. In fact, was threatened with court once because of it. Some mares, when put in with babies, will start a bag. Don't remember what the vet at the time called it, but it happens. I had a Saddlebred stallion for years, well, had a client send me a Morgan mare, worked her during the late spring, early summer, sent her home.

The next spring, I get a very ticked off call from the owner. The mare had a bag and milk, and was fat and obviously in foal. The only place she'd been near a stallion was my place. Obviously, they felt my stud got out of his stall (in another barn) and bred their mare. I said no way, my stud was never out during the time their mare was at my place, they didn't care. Said when she foaled, they were suing me for loss of use of the mare over the summer. My response - go have the mare palpated. If she's in foal, I'll pay for the palpation. They asked what I was going to do if she was in foal. I said, have her palpated first, then you'll know we don't need to talk about that. We went through 3-4 pretty nasty phone calls, because they didn't want to have the trouble to go get her palpated.

Anyway, phone calls stopped. About 3 weeks later see the client in a store. Ask about the mare. They had her palpated, she was open. Never called me to tell me, never apologized for being complete a__es about it. Apparently, they had another mare there with a baby, and that's what caused her to make a bag, and she was just FAT after the winter.

Seems funny now, was definately NOT funny then! : )

 

[heartkranch]

I have a mare that is due in feb. and she has a full bag already

 

[Eagle]

I have a mare that is due in feb. and she has a full bag already

I am not sure that is a good thing,I would get her checked if I were you

 

[targetsmom]

If it makes you feel better, our mare WAS locked up and on Mare Stare!! We had no foals that could have been nursing, as this was supposed to be our first foal.