Please help/advice Misty may be foundering!!!

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misty'smom

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I need all the advice and the expertise you all can give me, I'm so scared and upset......

Came home this afternoon from taking our dog to the Vet. Misty was laying down in her field/paddock area which she does sometimes but not for long periods. My neighbor called within minutes and he said Misty was walking slow and looked stiff in her front legs. I ran right out to her, she didn't jump up like she usually would but after a few minutes she got up and was walking a bit stiff not lame or limping on one side or the other. After she walked around a few minutes she seemed better. I was with her in the morning and she was fine no sign of the stiffness. I went back in the house and about an hour later she did the same was laying down, I went out, she got up and was stiff for a few minutes. Then she stayed up for about 2 hours until it was time to come in the barn for the night. She ate her feed and was munching on her hay but did lay down earlier than she normally would. I checked on her one last time around 11pm same thing all over again only in her stall. She has had no change in her diet, there is no grass for her to eat, what was out ther for the summer wasn't really lush grass, some weeds and grass mixed in. Same thing she has eaten for 3 years now. Only treats she gets are from my neighbor about 3 times a week 3 of the baby (very small) carrots. He grew up around horses and knows what not to give her or Josie. I could not get my Vet since it was late afternoon and he was on his way out off town. The emergency Vet will be on in the morning and I will be calling first thing.......Some questions I have are.......can the minis have Bute? I wasn't sure but the horse people at my co op gave me some Bute Less, doesn't contain any Bute just some natural anti inflammatories. Does it sound like a case of founder??? I am so scared, can the minis recover and get better?? She is not over weight, can easily feel her ribs, hip bone etc...I started to read more on the internet but it was getting to be too much so I thought better to come to you all!! I have learned so much from you all in the past 4 yrs I've been here. I began learning and asking questions here even before I got Misty and Josie. I grew up with the biggies but decided on the minis once I retired 4 yrs ago. I love them both so much and have had them since weanlings. They both turned 3 this past spring. Please any help advice I would so appreciate......
 
Do her feet feel warm? If she has foundered her feet will feel warmer then normal. If she has foundered soak her feet with the hose and give her plenty of bedding for the night. It's ok to let her much on some grass hay but for right now wait til you give her any grain til you see the vet. Problem with buts is you have to be so precise on how much you give, banamine would be better.
 
Some questions I have are.......can the minis have Bute?
I didn't think you could get bute without a vet prescription? ...different in your state, perhaps?Baby was prescribed bute; they were 1 gram tablets to be dosed at 1/4 tablet once per day ...up to twice a day if needed. Vet cautioned me to be careful; I smashed them up and served them in applesauce.
 
Buteless is an herbal non prescription anti inflammatory, and it takes a few days to build up in the system, so probably won't give much immediate relief.

Check her hooves for heat. Laminitis is a possibility, but it's just as possible she pulled something playing with Josie.
 
Actual Bute is a prescription drug, yes minis can have, but they are more sensitive to it than full size horses, so knowing weight of mini extremely important for dosing properly.
 
If you do suspect laminitis the first thing you should do is get her in and into a very deep shavings bed. Soak all her hay for at least 12hours before feeding. Hope she's okay
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I had the vet out yesterday afternoon. Sorry I didn't post sooner just lots to do. It's been tough around here since February my husband had a stroke and it's hard to keep up with everything. He just started to drive so that is huge. The vet that came is not our regular vet he was away. She was very nice and fills in when he needs her. She said it was the very beginning of a founder. She could feel some heat and did feel her digital pulse. She felt that Misty had some fat in the crest of her neck and on her rump. Her belly was fine because you can feel her ribs and hip bones. So she said first thing was for her to loose weight. Then she said the orchard grass hay was too nice of a hay ( just got 42 bales 2 weeks ago) that either I needed to get rid of it or I had to soak it for 2 hours before giving it to her. Can't really afford to just give it away and buy another hay so I did soak it. They don't like it that way but I suppose they will eat it when really hungry. Both Misty and Josie have been on a textured grain made at our co op since they turned 1 (they both were 3 this past spring). It was recommend to me by an equine nutritionist there when they were turning 1. I have to stop all grain until Wenesday then get Purina LS and feed them both this instead. Since her hooves were a little warm she wants me to ice them a couple of times a day. Misty didn't want to stand in a feed pan with ice but didn't mind me putting ice packs on her hooves. She gave her a dose of Banamine and then a dose for today and one for tomorrow. She seemed a lot better today, walking normal and acting more herself!!! ❤️ I hope she stays better and this doesn't happen again. What have some of you all experienced when your horses have foundered?? How long did it take to get over it?? And what about your hay and feed did you have to change what you were feeding??? I always thought Orchard grass was a good one for minis not too rich what do you all think??
 
After my little mare foundered last year I now soak all hay that they are given. It helps to remove any sugars that are still present within the hay. Especially at this time of the year we have terribly high sugar concentrations within the grass here.

With my little mare last year , I would say it was around 3-4 weeks that she was confined to a stable. It can take a lot longer depending on the severity of how bad a horse founders.

I took my mare completely off grass altogether and all things sweet. NO carrots, apples, mints ect. Along with grass, these sweet treats are only adding to the problem. Plenty of the plainest ,oldest, soaked hay was the only thing my vet recommended and instructed me to feed her. If you have a stable or dry lot I would recommend that she is kept in there till the autumn grass has stopped growing. Im a firm believer that autumn grass is just as potent as spring grass for some horses.

I cut up a friends yoga mat and taped it to the bottoms of her feet and that helped to take the pressure off , but if shes getting around better today id say you have been lucky this time...

Now not a massive fan myself, though I did buy one, is the "Grazing Muzzle". It has allowed my little one to enjoy her time with the others. They are able to eat very minimally through the muzzle but at the same time it is restricting the amount eaten.

Hope she continues to improve for you , just keep her off the green grass for the time being.

So happy to hear your husbands making good progress
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Thanks Ryan! After you soak the hay do you dry it out before giving it to your mare?? If so how do you dry it......yesterday I put it in her stall hay bin with the bucket underneath to catch the drips. Then today I put more in the outside hay bin which is longer and bigger but it still wasn't dry when I brought them in tonight. They did not like the really wet hay.
 
At 3 both girls can probably go on a maintenance ration, if they need "feed" at all.

I know your vet recommended Purina L/S, but if you can get Triple Crown products, the TC Lite is even lower in starch than the Purina L/S (the sugars are about the same). Another safe feed, if you can get, would be NuZu's Stabul 1 pellets, it's supposed to be available through TSC stores, and I don't know where else. You could contact Anderson feeds to find out if there is a distributor near you: http://www.nuzufeed.com/7550%20Stabul.html[Dealer locator only shows TSC in Manassas, but I don't know if they stock it or if it's special order, which could be a 10 bag order, but a phone call won't hurt anything]

Orchardgrass hay can be high in sugars, the soaking should help.

Some use a hay net to soak; put their meal into a hay net, then into your tub for soaking (may have to weigh it down, so it doesn't float), that way you can pull the net out, hang it up to drip a bit of excessive water out before feeding it. Dump the soak water somewhere she can't get to it.

A low carb meal would be rinsed, soaked and rinsed again beet pulp, it could replace some of their daily hay to reduce their daily carbs. [First rinse is to remove surface dirt and sugars, soak to fluff and then rinse again (til water is clear) to get rid of any residual sugars. Even beet pulp with no added molasses, might have a bit more sugar than she can have; but the rinse, soak, rinse cycle should take care of it. R/S/R beet pulp is recommended for IR and Cushing's horses that require a low carb diet.]
 
I wouldn't toss out that many bales of orchard grass.

I felt Baby had a pretty alarming case of laminitis. The vet told me to soak the hay. I used one of those black rubber water dishes; I'd have to check my notes but I think it was recommended about a half hour with warm water and a little longer if it was cold water. Then I drained the dish (in area inaccessible to the horse) and just pulled the dish into the stall for eating.

I imagine it's dependent on the area you live. ...but here I did not receive a vet suggestion to feed any sort of grain/sweet feed/or whatever it's called. Just hay, soaked. Then I was instructed to diet, diet, diet. I have to be honest, I didn't hang with the hay-soaking business for very long. And the vet gave me some options regarding fat reduction. So the first thing we did was string hot-wire to make little pens to keep the girls off the grass; I didn't get any grazing muzzles. But I did get a slow-feeder net.

From the start of the problem until Baby seemed more herself took a good week. The whole thing was pretty scary. So good luck!!!
 
Personally unless she absoutely needs it I would just not even worry about graining her. Now I would make sure she has some type of mineral tub that she has all access too. My horses all of the except for the jr horses are out on pasture and will be given hay once winter sets in but they get no grain, they are just on a pro-vita-min tub by ADM. These are also my show horses, they are just very much easy keepers and don't need the grain and they looked good during show season.
 
Personally unless she absoutely needs it I would just not even worry about graining her. Now I would make sure she has some type of mineral tub that she has all access too. My horses all of the except for the jr horses are out on pasture and will be given hay once winter sets in but they get no grain, they are just on a pro-vita-min tub by ADM. These are also my show horses, they are just very much easy keepers and don't need the grain and they looked good during show season.
As long as said mineral tub isn't held together by molasses, as many are.

The TC Lite is quite low calories and carbs, but pretty good source of vit/min.
 
This is a scary situation, but it sounds to me like your horse didn't actually founder- just that she might have foundered if the laminitis hadn't been brought under control. You've caught it early, are dealing with it and keeping her safe. My only reason for saying this is that a horse that has actually foundered is going to have a much more difficult road to recovery than a horse that suffered a bout of laminitis. It is all about management now, and it sounds like she is going to do just fine. Our horse had laminitis almost 10 years ago, and has not had another flare up. We are vigilant about his weight and keeping him off grass. It never effected his soundness. Best of luck to you!
 
There is a rule here, if it doesn't need food, fon't feed it. Unless you nee more energy and weight do NOT feed your horse anything but a low calorie vitamin/balancer.
 

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