Pinto Pattern Insight? Could use some educating...

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Jill

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[SIZE=10pt]Hi, folks --[/SIZE]

I am flat out dumb on pinto patterns. Mostly, I prefer solid horses but I do own some pintos. However, I couldn't really say for sure their patterns.

Can you tell me what patterns you see reflected on these horses of mine? I put my hunches which may only show how dumb I am about it


My intention is to have the buckskin colt pictured last tested prior to using him for breeding.

Would it be important (for breeding viability purposes) to test any of my other horses pictured?

Thanks,

Jill

Erica's Sweet as Sugar, a/k/a "Sweetie", 2004 perlino pinto BTU granddaughter -- pictured as a foal to better show her markings (TOBIANO?):


Erica's Double Dipped, a/k/a "Double", 2004 perlino pinto BTU granddaughter -- pictured as a foal to better show her markings (TOBIANO?):


Whinny For Me's AA Eclipse, a/k/a "Eclipse", 1999 black pinto driving gelding (TOBIANO?):


Edgewood Skip to My Lou, a/k/a "Lou", 1994 silver dapple pinto mare (TOVERO?):


Harrells Rowdys Reflection of Hope, a/k/a "Hope", 2002 silver dapple mare with white spots on her neck and a partial blue eye, a daughter of Cross Country's Rowdys Reflection which may give clues to color patern (GENETIC PINTO?):


Cross Country's Brass Monkey, a/k/a "Monkey", 2008 buckskin colt with white face, blue eyes and I think some white on his legs, a son Cross Country's Rowdys Reflection which may give clues to color patern (SPLASH?):

 
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Ashley

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The first three are tobis.

Lou is tobiano, sabino

HOpe has something going on because of the blaze, but not sure what.

Monkey, I would test him for frame just to be safe.
 

kaykay

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Probably eclipse and double dipped are carrying splash. Monkey probably is splash also.
 

targetsmom

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If they were mine... (I would be very happy, for one thing), I would have Hope and Monkey tested for the lethal white frame overo gene (LWO), mostly because of the facial white and Rowdy in their pedigree. Lou looks like a tobiano, but the white on her face could be from splash or less likely, frame. So you could call her tovero. I would guess that the others are tobiano only (I can't tell if Sweetie has white on her face - I think I need a closer look; can you send her up here?) but it might help to know what patterns the parents are. I am not a pinto pattern expert, even though we have only pintos, because I only care if they can be registered with the Pinto Association! I don't think Monkey would make it into the color registry, and Hope might have trouble unless her neck spots are big enough.
 

Joanne

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I agree with Targetsmom on Hope and Monkey. That Rowdy line produces minimal whites that carry LWO. I would definatly test for that.

Double and Eclipse might also carry splash, but without seeing the parents it is hard to call.
 

Jill

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Thank you for the input so far!!!

This is the sire of both Double and Sweetie, Little Kings B T Buck Bandito, formerly owned by Erica Killion and currently owned by Sheryl Stewart


(looks bay but is actually buckskin)
As to Eclipse's parents, I have no idea what they looked like


From Hope, there have been three foals so far, but all of them are solid color (out of solid parents)... It's sounding like for breeding safety, it would just be Hope and Monkey in need of testing (?), and I would probably not cross them to each other regardless.
 
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Jill

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Jill,
First you have some beautiful horses ( I am sure you know..lol).

I am not great with pinto coloring - even though that is why I raise.

I always do a LWO test if I feel there is a slight possibility - just to be on the safe side.

I also always do a Homozygous test out of two pinto parents - whether they have ink spots or not. I have had some test come back that I would think would NOT be Homozygous - to be Homozygous. Then I have had test come back where I would swear they were Homozygous - I have even had them tested twice to make sure, because of so many ink spots. Both times the test came back Negative.

I know I am not much help - and I am sure you already know what I am telling you - but, I posted just in case.

Again - some beautiful horses.
Thank you, Lisa
and your information is helpful.

When it comes to LWO, if some of mine carry it, as long as I do not cross them with another LWO horse, then there's not a possibility of a lethal white foal (is this correct?)? And are all other pinto patterns are compatible, so splash x tobiano or splash x tovero or splash x splash is okay? .. so basically is LWO x LWO the only thing I want to avoid when it comes to patterns?
 
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targetsmom

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I would test Hope for LWO even if all your stallions are LWO-, so that you will know if she can pass on the frame gene. If she is LWO-, then you won't need to test her foals. But then, I tend to test a lot because I am curious! And of course, test Monkey unless you plan to geld him. And yes, frame is only an issue if you cross two that are LWO+ and the other pinto patterns only make for interesting color combinations, but are "safe".
 
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Becky

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The pintos with the chest shield and flank spots removed likely carry splashed white as color removal in those areas is a characteristic of that pattern.
 

lyn_j

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Just a reminder that you can have a completely solid horse that caries the LWO gene.

Lyn
 

albahurst

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Becky- Could you please explain the terminology used in your post- 'chest shield and flanks spots removed'... I think I know what you mean, but I want to learn more about this terminology.

Thanks-

peggy
 

Becky

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Peggy, here is a pinto colt carrying tobiano and sabino. Possbily splashed white from the blue eyes, but the other patterns won out! Redrock Checotah - full brother to your Lots O Spots! Notice that he has colored areas in his flank (flank spots) and on his chest (chest shield). Typical of tobiano.



Here is a mare that carries both tobiano and splashed white. Redrock Keota. Notice that she has the chest shield removed. Her other side (not pictured) has no color in the flank either.



Here is a mare that is splashed white. East Acres Stary Night. She is somewhat more minimally marked as she just has the color removed in her flank area.



Hope that helps!
 

albahurst

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Yes, it does! Thank you for the information! Pics were very helpful, too!

Peggy
 

Kim~Crayonboxminiatures

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Also a remember that tobiano can hide LWO (frame), just because you don't see any markings doesn't mean it isn't there. If it were me, I would test Monkey and if he is positive for LWO, I would test all the mares regardless of what they visually look like. I'd rather know for sure than risk having a live foal at birth that has to be put down, but that is just my opinion.
 

Jill

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That's how I feel, too, Kim
If Monkey is LWO+, then I'd test any mare I plan to breed to him
 

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