Overo Patterns

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cowgurl_up

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Ok, I love colors and genetics and love to read all of the "what color is my horse" threads just to see what peoples answers are. I must be having a very off day as I just can't seem to wrap my mind around this!
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I know Overo is kind of a loosely used term since there are so many different patterns that go along with it such as Splash, Frame, ect...... But a horse can test negative for LWO and can still have overo right? But there is no test for Overo like there is Tobiano (or am I mistaken?) so how do you ever really know which patterns your horse carries?

Here's the main reason I ask. My boy I'm sure carries Tobiano, but what are your thoughts towards what other pattern(s) he might carry? His sire was black/bay Tobiano. His dam is registered as sorrel but has a blaze and two blue eyes which I have thought might be where Overo might have come from (that's where the silver was hiding also!
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).

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I would be glad to see others examples of the different patterns if anyone is willing to share and would love to hear others thoughts on this!! I really want to have a better grasp on this!
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Carolyn R

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I would guess your boy is a tovero (overo and tobiano) the blue eyes could come from the splash gene, but with that much facial white I am guessing he may very well have the frame gene (LWO).

Best to test him if he is going to stay intact.

Carolyn
 

kaykay

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I agree with the above and would test him to be sure.

Here is my visual black frame overo stallion Wauk A Way Feature Attraction
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This is my all time favorite pattern

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cowgurl_up

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Thanks Carolyn R and kaykay! The test actually will be sent out tomorrow (have to remember to pull hair tonight!)

kaykay, you boys is gorgeous! Not just beautifully marked but beautifally built! What pretty action!
 

kaykay

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thanks so much sara!! He is also such a sweet man and a joy to be around
 

Carolyn R

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I forgot to add, if you want to check out some mini wesites with some oveos and toveros, and I am sure there are some other pinto patterns too, but I usually just drool over the overos, check out.....

Red Rock Miniatures, Nostalgia miniatures, Ltd Miniatures, Dream Maker miniatures, and Kickapoo Minis, I know most of you are all forum members, Hope you don't mind me tossing your names out there, but you all have some really nice examples of overos and toveros. My all tme two favorite stallions tha carry overo, .....Cross Country's Call Me Sir, and 4 G's Little Kings Alfalfa Pleasure (Hawk owned by the Reece's).

If you are looking for examples of patterns, others websites are a great way to (drool) I mean learn.
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Carolyn

KayKay, your boy makes me drool too!!!
 
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REO

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My boy Lotto is a Splash! Your boy looks to carry Splash to me!

Almost all my horses are "Toveros".
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Ferin

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Cowgurl_Up, your colt is beautiful! I love those blue eyes with his silver dapple coloring.
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I also agree with Carolyn R and KayKay. By the way KayKay, your boy is gorgeous!
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I have always loved the Wauk A Way horses.

I have one horse that carries the overo gene.

Wauk A Way Kansas Twister is my black visual frame overo gelding. I also love that pattern!
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Lucky-C-Acres-Minis

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I'd say your guy is tobiano and splash overo, but I to would test for LWO/Frame just to be safe..
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Our guy has a lot of facial white and blue eyes, but tested negative for LWO meaning he must carry the splash pattern..

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And he also looks to carry sabino as well.. The bald face, blue eyes and one white spot are the only indications of being overo so he's pretty minimal

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His sire is C-Chief Proud Eagle who is appaloosa bred, dam is 4 GS HF Bambies Scarlet Ribbon, who is sorrel/chestnut with a wide blaze, she's a daughter of Ramsey's Bambie, who is sired by Powells Shah Jehan who's sire was pinto, so the splash/sabino had to be passed from him, wish I could find pictures of him to see what patterns he appears to carry!
 

midnight star stables

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Your horse carries Tobiano + Splash. Test him for LWO. He could be a carrier, or just Splash; the test will tell.

Frame Overo(LWO+) is just one type of pinto pattern. It is harmless on it's own and causes no problems what so ever. I'll help a little bit with it's problems in a minute.

I just wanted to help break down "pinto" for you.

There are 4 main pinto patterns, they are the following:

Tobiano: Most common of all. Most pintos carry it, and it is easy to breed for(50/50 chance of getting it when a parent is a "regular" carrier. There is a 100% chance of getting this colour if a parent has paw print markings and test homozygous)

Sabino: Is a roaning gene. It often combines with other colours. It gives a greying or roaning look to white markings. Think of a Clydsdale draft horse.

Spash: Rather rare. Big bold and sharp coloured markings on the back and neck. White legs and faces are common.

Tovero: Is a term used to say a horse is Tobiano AND ANY other pinto pattern, be it Sabino, Spash or most commonly LWO+ Overo.

And of course, LWO+ Overo: This is the special pattern. Like all the others, you still have to have one parent that carrys the gene to past it on to a foal. A SOLID colour horse CAN NOT be LWO+ however if it has a snip or a white foot etc, then it Could be a minimal overo and will then carry LWO+ gene. Not all horses with a star or snip will be LWO+ but they could and should be tested.

If you breed a LWO+ mare to a Tobaino stallion(not homozygous) you have 4 differnt out comes. 1) another LWO+ 2) a solid LWO- 3)a LWO- tobiano or 4)a tobaino who carrys LWO+ (Tovero) (Well I'm pretty sure, could be off on #4 or #3... but the idea is the same) Basically you only have 25% chance of getting a LWO+ foal. You have 0% chance of getting a dead LWO++ foal. This is so far Very safe.

If you breed a LWO+ mare to a LWO+ stallion, you still have 4 out comes again, however they are now differnt then above. 1) A live LWO+ foal 2) A live LWO+ foal 3) A live LWO- foal or 4) a dead LWO++ foal. This means if you breed two overos, you have a 50%chance of getting a live beautiful overo foal. You still have 25% chance of a solid LWO-. However you now risked 25% chance of having a LWO++ foal, which will die.

Overo is safe and a beautiful colour. It IS HARD to get, and that is why it is prized. Dead LWO++ foals are not common, but they do happen. LWO+ is a great gene and cause no harm when used correctly. That's why there is a test.

I personally LOVE the overo look, and I always have. That's just me.
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Want to see MY Overo?
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LTDs Lil Copycat .....And I'd take 100+ like her in a moment!

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Cat is a classic Frame Sabino Overo. She is what many overo breeders aim for. She is a perfect example, as she is bred from Sample and comes from many of the early Sample, Van Lo, Miller AND LTD lines. She is colourful living art, in my eyes anyways, an I just think that I am so lucky to have been given the chance to own MY DREAM horse!

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Thanks for letting me share
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I also love Twister, Feature and Sky
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Awesome overos!
 
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mizbeth

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WOW Kaykay.............where have you been hiding him?

Oh, the others are pretty too, believe me.

Beth
 

kaykay

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Ferin I love twister!! And of course LTDS copy cat is also the cats meow
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Great explanation of the different patterns!

I havent posted a lot of pictures of Feature as I am hoping to get some new ones done next month. He was pretty chubby when we got him home but is looking much better now. Im hoping to get a video of him moving
 

Tam VanderWerf

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Ok, so being totally uneducated about pinto pattern, what would this guy be. He is a bay roan and he has a partial blue eye.

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Thanks!

Tam
 

Lucky-C-Acres-Minis

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Without a doubt tobiano and splash, tobiano of course giving you the main pattern and the white that extends over his back, splash giving you the wild face white and partial blue eye, of course frame could also be playing that part so would have to test to be sure.. Now, are you 100% sure he is a true "roan"? Because to me, he isn't a roan, and the white flecking throughout his body giving him the roan look is sabino at work... GORGEOUS guy by the way!
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mizbeth

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This is Alamo Streakers Mime. He is a frame overo, splash overo and carries the sabino gene. He has produced an array of these patterns, combinations of these patterns and of course stunning solid colored horses (even out of pinto mares
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), Sequoia Majestic Mime.

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Tam VanderWerf

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Now, are you 100% sure he is a true "roan"? Because to me, he isn't a roan, and the white flecking throughout his body giving him the roan look is sabino at work... GORGEOUS guy by the way

Lucky C.... thanks for your help and your comment on him - all 26" of him.

No, I am not 100% sure on the roan. His sire was a strawberry roan with a wide blaze face and white socks on his rear legs. Would that classify his sire as a sabino?

Also, where would I have him tested to KNOW what color pattern he is and what test would I request?

Thank you for all your help!

Tam
 
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Lucky-C-Acres-Minis

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No, I am not 100% sure on the roan. His sire was a strawberry roan with a wide blaze face and white socks on his rear legs. Would that classify his sire as a sabino?
Do you have pictures of his sire? Is his head and lower legs darker than the rest of his body, which is a sign of a true roan.?

This is my true roan mare, notice her head and legs are darker than her body which is heavily roaned?

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Since he has a wide blaze and white socks then he does carry sabino and that's what is giving him those markings.. Wouldn't suspect splash since you say his face white is just a wide blaze, no blue eyes and just socks..

Also, where would I have him tested to KNOW what color pattern he is and what test would I request?
I've used Animal Genetics and was happy with them.. You can print off the forms from there, pull the hairs and send them in.. I got email confirmation a few days to a week after sending them in and then the certificates in the mail a few days after that..

If he were mine I would definitely do LWO without a doubt.. There is a sabino test, but it only tests one form of sabino, so your horse can test negative for that but still carry sabino (I believe it's clydesdales who will test negative for this form, yet there is no doubt that sabino is what gives them their facial, leg and sometimes belly markings!) You could also test him for tobiano to see if he's homozygous or heterozygous
 

Tam VanderWerf

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Lucky C

Here is a picture of his sire, Cascades Magic Rhythm. By the way, thank you for your time and educating me. I really appreciate it!

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Lucky-C-Acres-Minis

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Looks like, to me at least, sire is in fact could be a true roan AND he's got sabino going on too.. The darker coloring under his eyes, and his ears appear darker is what has me saying true roan..
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Sixstardanes

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Saber here would be a Tovero, right?

Being Tobiano with Sabino & Splash - yes?

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He has a white chin, a spot on his right knee and a spot on his tummers

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He has some roaning on his right side

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