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HGFarm

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How do you get a pale palomino from a bay mare and a black stud? The stud is sired by a black and out of a black mare. The black dam of said stud was sired by a buckskin?? but the buckskin was out of a 'roan' and a black. The 'roan' was said to have been out of a sorrel and a black.. no other off colors are listed on the black sire's side. I dont know how you could get a buckskin from black and sorrel background?

The dam is as bay as she can get and does not show any silver dilution either- she is bright red bay and black socks, points, mane and tail.

I thought to get a dilute you had to have dilute... and how many generations can this skip, if it was there?

Sorry if this is confusing, but I have never seen a palomino born from a black stud and a true bay mare.
 

Jill

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If I follow what you're outlining, it sounds like the sire is smokey black, not "plain" black. Smoky black can appear black as the nght to the eye but still carry cream dilute


Cream will NOT skip a generation.
 

Minimor

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How do you get a pale palomino from a bay mare and a black stud? The stud is sired by a black and out of a black mare. The black dam of said stud was sired by a buckskin?? but the buckskin was out of a 'roan' and a black. The 'roan' was said to have been out of a sorrel and a black.. no other off colors are listed on the black sire's side. I dont know how you could get a buckskin from black and sorrel background?

Simple; the black stud is actually a smokey black, as is his black dam who inherited a cream gene from her buckskin sire. Buckskin sire's black parent must have been either a smokey black...the cream gene could "hide" through several generations of black horses...or else the roan wasn't really a roan...it could have been a smutty buckskin, while either the sorrel parent was a dark palomino...or the black parent was a smokey black or even a dark buckskin that at birth had that silvery gold color that someone mistook for the mouse color that many blacks are at birth--and once the horse was registered as black no one bothered to correct the papers. Remember that colors are notoriously incorrect on many Miniature registration certificates.

Unless the sire to this palomino was not actually the horse named as the sire...the cream color could only have come from the 'black' sire. An absolutely for sure bay mare cannot be hiding the cream gene, and if the parents are obviously black and bay, with neither showing silver, then the palomino color cannot be a pale silver bay. Is it absolutely for sure that the foal is palomino and not a very light golden chestnut?
 

HGFarm

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No, this is absolutely a palomino foal with a white mane and tail, no silver here. And I dont know how the 'buckskin' appeared in the sire's pedigree out of a roan from sorrel and black background. What is really odd, is that there is a newly gelded horse on the same farm that is also pale palomino...... the mare was sold as bred.....
 

Jill

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The color probability from smoky black x bay is:

35.16% - Buckskin

35.16% - Bay

11.72% - Smoky Black

11.72% - Black

3.13% - Palomino

3.13% - Chestnut

It sounds like along the line there have been smoky blacks. Plus the possiblity the "roan" was a greying smoky black as well...
 
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HGFarm

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The buckskin was back a couple of horses in the pedigree and there were no dilutes listed behind that but silver dapple- if you want to call that a 'dilute'- and they are a couple more generations back. The rest were all sorrels, chestnuts and blacks behind the one listed as 'buckskin'. This 'buckskin' is the only dilute colored horse listed in this horse's pedigree and the only way this horse could possibly carry a creme gene. A buckskin can't just appear by itself. The roan sire of the buckskin- I can see a regular red roan or whatever, but dont you have to have a dilute gene somewhere to get a buckskin? There is nothing else behind these horses to come closely to indicate that someone carries a dilute gene. All the other foals sired by the sire of this palomino foal in question have been black and I mean jet black.

I just found it odd that the SLIM chance of this mare producing this color, IF the stallion has a smokey black background is pretty nil, especially when the foal looks just like another newly gelded horse that was on the property right down to the blaze face and pale palomino coloring and certainly wonder if there was some 'mixup' on breeding. The dam is owned by someone else who either bought the mare bred or took the mare there to be bred.....
 

Jill

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Some of the blacks (even all of them!) could be smoky silver blacks, which means they carry cream dilute. The silver dapples could be smoky silver black, meaning they carry cream and silver. I know it can be mind boggling... But VERY interesting


If it's parentage you're questioning, I think only DNA can answer it but it does sound the color is POSSIBLE from the pedigree of colors outlined.
 
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Miniv

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No, this is absolutely a palomino foal with a white mane and tail, no silver here. And I dont know how the 'buckskin' appeared in the sire's pedigree out of a roan from sorrel and black background. What is really odd, is that there is a newly gelded horse on the same farm that is also pale palomino...... the mare was sold as bred.....
It sure sounds that DNA with parent qualification is in order for that foal.
 

CheyAut

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I know two BLACK black horses who produced a palomino


As was said, cream doesn't always show on blacks. It "hides" you could say. So it could have been passed down through the generations in the black horses. Or, a mixup is always possible ;)

Jessi
 

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The buckskin was back a couple of horses in the pedigree and there were no dilutes listed behind that but silver dapple- if you want to call that a 'dilute'- and they are a couple more generations back. The rest were all sorrels, chestnuts and blacks behind the one listed as 'buckskin'. This 'buckskin' is the only dilute colored horse listed in this horse's pedigree and the only way this horse could possibly carry a creme gene. A buckskin can't just appear by itself. The roan sire of the buckskin- I can see a regular red roan or whatever, but dont you have to have a dilute gene somewhere to get a buckskin? There is nothing else behind these horses to come closely to indicate that someone carries a dilute gene. All the other foals sired by the sire of this palomino foal in question have been black and I mean jet black.
I just found it odd that the SLIM chance of this mare producing this color, IF the stallion has a smokey black background is pretty nil, especially when the foal looks just like another newly gelded horse that was on the property right down to the blaze face and pale palomino coloring and certainly wonder if there was some 'mixup' on breeding. The dam is owned by someone else who either bought the mare bred or took the mare there to be bred.....
This is Bandit. He looks Black to me. Imagine my surprise when he started producing Palomino and Buckskin foals. Had him lab tested. He is Smokey Black.

 

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