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can train the very best with a blank canvas but one that needs to be undone first can beat the best. That's always why most trainers want untouched horses. The word spoiled is used for a very good reason so don't blame yourself
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Those are true words of wisdom in Rocklone's post. :)

Hang in there Marsha, it is not easy differentiating spoiled from uneducated sometimes.They can be a puzzlement. Ask me how I know!

Hopefully you will have a wonderful driving partner very soon!

He is very cute. And it sounds like progress is being made since you got him.
 
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Trainer called today with an update. She really likes him and her evaluation is that he will work well for me. She believes he has what it takes for a good driving horse. She wants to keep him a little longer, though, to work through some of his bad behavior habits. That is fine with me; I am so happy she gave me a thumb's up on him.
 
Well, we had our talk. She recognized the problem with him--a lack of respect--but feels confident that he will work through it.

Some things I am doing are bad, such as when I am scratching or petting him I allow him to push his head on me or even rest his head on me in a possessive way. Not allowed. A soft touch on his part is allowed, but not a "bossy" touch. I know what's she's talking about so I will do my best to overcome this behavior on my part so I can help him be well-adjusted.

I can do lead-line work with him but no ground driving. She wants to have him solid with that before she lets me ground drive him.

This calls for a serious lesson in humility on my part. But I asked for her help so I will do my best to follow her instructions.

I'll take him back next week when the weather stabilizes. We are due for rain storms and freezing rain through the next several days.

She is enthusiastic about his driving potential.
 
Your posts are very good and informative, I'm thinking the best thing for seven and me is for him to go to a trainer. He is also a spoiled brat and it's all my fault for being so passive and treating him like a child instead of a horse.
 
I've really enjoyed hearing your progress with your horses. Thank you for sharing Rowdy's progress with us.

Just so that you know, there are trainers who also have a horse that comes along that "stumps" them. Many a trainer has gone to another for a little "give N' take" session" that will include ?s which will spawn ideas w/ the horse in question (yea, a lot don't ask/talk about a problem directly). It works.

I'm glad that it's working out so well for you. Rowdy is a cute fella and I look forward to the day when you say "YAY, we are driving now!"
 
Update on Rowdy:

"He is doing well, definitely improving in all areas and thinking new things. I do enjoy the challenge!"

She said he got his gate opened yesterday and she found him in with her goats grazing. Now she'll have to secure the gate better. I would probably not be happy if her goats did a barber job on his mane or tail...

She is the only person I've known who teaches her goats tricks. She is an amazing trainer. She studies her animals and works with their herd/flock mentality. Very focused.
 
The trainer is a firm believer in the overcheck. She feels strongly that it helps the horse to learn how it feels to hold his body correctly. I have heard so much passionate opinion pro and con on this forum. I intend to go with her technique for now, in order to follow through with his training. Later, I may change my mind.
 
I am one who would disagree on the overcheck; I have and do occasionally use a sidecheck; mostly if needed to help prevent grabbing for grass. After extensive study into some of the techniques of successful 'big horse' trainers, training for a 'complete' driving horse(as opposed to a breed show ring horse, which in my view is often a very different situation),I have learned that the horse should be taught to fully accept,and ultimately to seek, contact with the bit. This takes TIME. I begin by letting the horse carry the bit in a simple, blinder-free headstall, no noseband. Let the horse eat with it on eventually, under your eye, of course, in order to become fully accustomed to it. I don't try to ground drive until there is a solid foundation of round pen or longe line work. Once I do, I have a flat halter,well fit, on under the basic bridle, and I attach the driving lines to the lower side rings of the halter, NOT to the bit. I let the horse become used to wearing the harness saddle w/ backstrap and crupper, then pass the lines through the tug loops, not the terrets, for ground driving until the horse is quite well along, as using the terrets can too often result in the horse turning to face you...and, doesn't accustom the horse to the feel of the lines passing around its haunch, which is an aid to acceptance of Breeching.(I FIRNLY believe all driving horses should be trained to breeching; it can easily be removed for the show ring...How I wish I could get more people to realize the benefits of a horse 'broke' to the use of breeching, esp. mini horse people; it enables the horse to both 'push' and back its load properly. I also have utilized the sliding side rein as an aid to the horse in learning to carry itself, and in learning to seek bit contact. I like to do some ground driving over cavalletti to aid in this; the horse tends to 'reach down' as it pays attention to where it is putting its feet. I don't like to use fixed side reins, even those w/ 'elastic'...certainly not on a green horse, and mostly, never. I use stretching and bending exercises to make the horse more supple and responsive, but not excessively. Just my experience and beliefs, after training my own since I began doing so at age 14.
 
Trainer had some interesting insights into Rowdy. She says he is a "city boy"--loves the activity and stimulation of working in town. When she takes him out to isolated places he is not as comfortable. He loves barking dogs, 4 wheelers, folks in their yards, traffic. He has met cows and is now okay with them! He doesn't do as well in the wide open spaces. That is where I worked him before (that's where I live!) so this is an interesting observation for me. She explained to me why she thinks he is this way. It's part of the "respect issues". They are working through it. She said he will be perfect for parades and any activities with people. He loves people.

She is working him on ground.exercises to teach him more about using his hind end, as she does not feel he is "following his nose" well yet.

He and one of her goats have taken to each other and become buddies. The goat tries to keep Rowdy from leaving the yard and wants to follow on their workouts. I hope this does not mean that I have to get a goat...

She doesn't want me to bring Rowdy home for good until he is "solid".

I have never sent a horse out to a trainer before. Those of you who have, do you have a feeling that he doesn't really belong to you any more? I'm paying the bills but I feel he is bonding with some other "boss mare".
 
Dropped by to visit Rowdy today. I didn't have time to stay for a ground driving lesson, but I observed some ground work. She says he is doing well, though hasn't gotten the good habits solid yet. I plan to bring him home next week, though I think he really enjoys where he is; there is lots more companionship and interesting goings-on. Too bad; he will just have to endure being at my boring, isolated place again!
 
At least you know that he won't be frightened by lots of activity but interested in it all!

That's really cool that you are also able to stop in at the trainers' place. That was one thing I had an exceptionally hard thing doing when mine have been out - simply because the trainers' were all so far away. I had to really work to schedule visiting times - both to check in and to have the paid for instruction times with them and the trainer before they came home with me.

The only time I didn't face that was in 2010 when I took the ponies to the trainer's place (draft horse trainer that was only about 5 miles from us) 1x a week from May thru November to have our lessons. But those ponies didn't stay over there - I did most of their work at home and even had "homework" that I was supposed to work on between lessons...
 
Paula, I think the opposite is true for this horse. He is more unsure when he is in a wide-open, quiet place. And he has seen cows there and passed the cow test!

Yes, it is nice he is close enough to visit, about 25 miles. We have had so much turmoil lately, I have not been as often as I would like.
 
Supposed to pick him up on Tuesday. My head is swiveling over the overcheck controversy. Both sides are saying sensible, valid things. The trainer is rock-solid in her belief in it and backs up her opinion with good reasons. I've been through this before several years ago.

I think the idea of an overcheck bit makes sense, rather than attaching the overcheck to the rein bit.

I think I will just keep an open mind about it and see how things go when I begin to work with him myself. The problem with an open mind is the danger that one's brains will fall out...
 

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