New filly with Interesting color (new pics and info added pg3)

[romewhip]

She actually looks like a first year roan to me, but I'd be real tempted to get the clippers out and clip a couple little patches to see what's underneath, LOL!

 

[amysue]

What a gorgeous mare! Take what the papers claim with a grain of salt. Quite often the color is incorrect as horses color can change a bit as they mature and in the cases of interesting color, often people get it wrong and don't know what to call it. It may be worth having her color tested to see what she actually is. If her sire or dam's color were incorrectly recorded then it would have led the registrar to incorrectly identify her on the premis that (oh that color isn't possible if the patents are this color). I had that problem with a colt that I bought as a yearling. He had sorrel parents but looked silver milk chocolate color. They listed him as a silver dapple and even with the updated photos on his permanent cert. They listed him as silver. People questioned paternity of his palomino colt claiming grey genes arw dominant and palomino was not possible. A DNA test proved not only paternity but also that he was a sorrel not a silver. Whatever you call her, shes absolutely beautiful. I too would love to see how she sheds out.

 

[MBhorses]

She looks alot like a bay filly I had that turn gray she turns all types of colors before graying out pretty gal congrats on your horses

 

[MindyLee]

This is my roan filly as a weanling and now as a 4 year old. See too has a dorsl stripe. Dad is a smutty buckskin roan and mom is a bay roan.

SO Im gonna go with buckskin roan for your lil girl!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yes, I think that is a real possibility, looking at your baby pictures, Mindylee, I can see the similarity.

Amysue it would have been possible for your horse to sire a Palomino even if he had been a Silver- you would not have seen the Cream on a Silver Black and if he had a chestnut parent, or you put him to a chestnut mare....

 

[Debby - LB]

look like classic bay roan. very pretty

 

[Tab]

I vote graying out, but what a stylish way to do so!

 

[orin]

Can't wait to see this little lady under all that fluff! Love her colouring!

 

[Barefootin]

As promised I finally have photos of the other 5 minis we picked up with Elsa. Plus I have a bit more info on Elsa's color. Elsa has NO gray eyelashes or gray around her eyes. We have never had one go gray that didn't have those tell tale signs first. Also she was born a cream color and is getting Darker now not the other way around. I know I had assumed she was dark and now getting lighter.

Now for the other new girls. First is Jimmy Deans Fussbusters Special. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jimmy+deans+fussbuster+special She is registered as a Gray Pinto but is obviously a Silver Dapple Pinto.



Next we have Jimmy Deans Wapeka. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jimmy+deans+wapeka She is a Solid Black with no white.



Now we have Jimmy Deans Nut N Honey. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jimmy+deans+nut+n+honey She is registered as Solid Bay but has now turned Gray. This is Elsa's dam.



The last 2 are weanling fillies. The first one is Jimmy Deans Karla. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jimmy+deans+karla Karla is registered as Bay or Bay Roan but is actually going Gray.



And the last newbie is Jimmy Deans Apache Mist. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jimmy+deans+apache+mist Misty was body clipped about 2 weeks+ ago for registration. She is a Black Pinto.



Misty is a mirror image to our weanling colt Ernie. Ernie is a bit bigger right now but otherwise they make a neat pair.

 

[ohmt]

We had a buckskin colt who was born that beautiful creamy color, but had sooty and every winter looked just like this filly and then in the summer shed out to look black. I'm going with that or that she is greying, just "atypically", as was stated earlier. Congrats on all the new additions!

 

[Violet]

There is a really wonderful book by Jeanette Gower, (Horse Color Explained). Brindles, composites, taffies and all kinds of rare colors are discussed in detail including the known

laws of inheritance. It is very possible you have new mutation. It happens after all. Every now and then something new will pop up, and the symmetry of your fillies color markings

lends one to believe its just not a known pattern type that developed interesting color distribution. I don't think she is either an appaloosa or gray. I would try to contact the above mentioned

author and send her pictures. Often the foal coat will indicate more about the genetics than the shed out mature coat. Example a sooty buckskin at birth would be yellow yet look like a black horse, that surprises everyone when it has a dilute foal like a palomino or buckskin if they have no idea it's really a buckskin. My vote if she is not a mutation, she is a sooty buckskin where the black points

have spread. Very beautiful whatever she turns out to be. You could also do some genetic testing. I think that would be really helpful and useful information to share with everyone.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Er no, sorry, Violet, I have to disagree there.So many mistakes and outdated (now) things in the Gower book that it is really just good for the pictures as illustrations. Taffy is an Aus/NZ word not really used by the rest of the world. If you want to learn about colour and colour genetics try The Color Forum Forums | Equine Color Genetics you will be welcomed and learn a lot.

I don't think she is a mutation at all, I think she is probably going to be either a straightforward Roan, or a Roan going Grey- which could account for the atypicality (is that even a word??) of it.

 

[HGFarm]

She looks fairly typical roan to me... they are usually darker in winter due to the long dark hair. Their heads and legs stay dark. She is not varnish Appy, and does not appear to be gray to me either.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

She does not present as a typical Roan, even allowing for winter coat. I think most people are aware they go lighter and darker. Not sure how you can say so categorically she does not have varnish- I don't think she does, but, without proof I don't think I would say something that does actually look as if she might have it, does not.....

 

[MyMiniGal]

I wish I could share pics that aren't mine....well, only for this case, as last night, I was on Facebook and on a horse board, there is a mare, that looks like this, to me. They are calling it an Appaloosa and there was a picture of a foal, and they are calling it snowcap, but they weren't as fuzzy as this one is, but to me, if they were, they would look a lot like this. I'm not saying, this one is Appaloosa, and I am just saying what they called the one they had. They may not have that right either. I don't know anything about colors and genetics.

 

[Violet]

Er no, sorry, Violet, I have to disagree there.So many mistakes and outdated (now) things in the Gower book that it is really just good for the pictures as illustrations. Taffy is an Aus/NZ word not really used by the rest of the world. If you want to learn about colour and colour genetics try The Color Forum Forums | Equine Color Genetics you will be welcomed and learn a lot.

I don't think she is a mutation at all, I think she is probably going to be either a straightforward Roan, or a Roan going Grey- which could account for the atypicality (is that even a word??) of it.

Some of the terms are different, true, but the laws of inheritance have not changed. Australia was a great testing ground for color inheritance and proved certain falsehoods observed to be true in the US, especially with sabino inheritance. The reason Australia is/was a good color inheritance laboratory for horses is, they had a limited number of types and generations of offspring could be observed that didn't follow the current understanding of inheritance at the time of writing the book. Taffy/champagne are just names, what in particular do you think is outdated? I believe it was mentioned the eyelashes are not grey, an atypical grey is probably still something different. Its like chestnuts have four genetic subtypes, but being recessive always breed chestnuts, but...there still might be a genetically odd chestnut. And different chestnuts crossed for palomino for example, have different results. There are a lot of misconceptions about color and inheritance even with the breed associations. Personally, one of my mares had a genetically impossible foal and I had to DNA the mare, stallion and foal to get him registered. He got registered all right after the DNA testing but the dun phenotype with a mask, leg barring, stripe down his back, even a divided mane like a fjord with frosting on both sides didn't match the buckskin genotype he had to be according to the registry. His mother was a bay, his father a smutty palomino. He HAD to be a buckskin so that's what he is registered as. I really hope some genetic testing takes place. We should encourage people to post color variants and what is known about their parentage. The registries have the most data to work with but often make it hard to register an atypical foal, possibly skewing the facts. Hopefully one day it will get cheaper to genetically test and breeders will grit their teeth and follow through with all the hoops to jump through to keep their horses registered. As individuals we may only see a couple hundred horses in a lifetime and very few individual types. I probably have personally only have seen maybe a 24 roan foals. Most were QH's and none looked like this filly. This site is great in that we can exchange information.

 

[ohmt]

Violet-genetic mutations are incredibly rare and should not be even thought of until every reasonable answer has been exhausted. In this case, there are plenty of reasonable answers to go through. These are fuzzy pics and often the longer hair grows in a bit....odd. Our understanding of genetics grows every day because it is science and in science we learn new things every day. Equine color and patterns genetics have really taken off the past 5 years and there are only a few different sources that are accurate. The link that rabbitsfizz posted is a great place to learn-they are with the times.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I bred Palominos for years and never found the colour of the mare made any difference whatsoever to the foal. A chestnut is a chestnut. And as for the book, I do not wish to slate the book on this Forum, but I ran out of post its to correct all the mistakes. Generally speaking, that book was outdated by the time it was published- this is always a problem, of course, with any book of it's kind.

 

[Violet]

Violet-genetic mutations are incredibly rare and should not be even thought of until every reasonable answer has been exhausted. In this case, there are plenty of reasonable answers to go through. These are fuzzy pics and often the longer hair grows in a bit....odd. Our understanding of genetics grows every day because it is science and in science we learn new things every day. Equine color and patterns genetics have really taken off the past 5 years and there are only a few different sources that are accurate. The link that rabbitsfizz posted is a great place to learn-they are with the times.

Of course mutations are rare, I just mentioned that as a possibility. I said the laws of inheritance have not changed, identifying genotype based on outward appearance and "labeling" is the problem. I guess I've been privileged to see some really rare mutations in horses like brindle so I wanted to jump to the unlikely possibility of mutation. I just love the oddball and recently bought a really ugly, possibly abused mini. Day one she showed up with a bruised eye and visibly shaking. Her hooves are spread, her coat is faded black sprinkled with bot eggs and her fight/fight reactions are turned up full blast. Anyway, she has a white muzzle with black dots like a mule or pangare/mealy markings with a lighter belly and feet. She has all the appaloosa traits, (striped hooves, white sclera, etc). She also has one white rump spot. I bought her because she was interesting (to me) as I have not seen pangare and appy traits together or whatever she is. I'm looking forward to getting her in tip top condition as any color horse looks great when they are sleek and healthy. Thanks for the suggestion, I will look at rabbitsfizz.