need advice

[MindyLee]

OK, so I have been watching my 14yr old mare get bigger and bigger while her ribs are very showy. The vet who did see her back 4 months ago said worm her. So I wormed her with Zemectrin then. Still big and bloted, so wormed her with Ivromec. Then again with Equimax. Still nothing. Vet yesterday says give her a whole tube of Panacure, so I did, still huge looking.

WHAT SHOULD I DO? I'm getting very very concerned as vet keeps saying worms but nothing is working.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Ok has your vet actually done a fecal exam? If she is wormy a simple test can tell and you can find out what worms she has. Alot of those wormers that you have given her is just Ivermectrin, except for the Panacure and thats not really that strong. What I may do is buy the Safe Guard powerdose kit. You would worm her 5 days straight and Safe Guard is very safe. But first I would defintelly get a fecal exam done. Worming too much isn't very good either.

 

[chandab]

What about sand in her gut? I haven't had many issues with sand, but one gelding did come up ribby with a gut last year, and I treated him for sand and he improved (think its time to do it again for him). There are probably other reasons for what you are seeing, but its easy enough to check for sand. Just grab a couple fresh fecal balls (try not to get any dirt with them), throw them in a ziplock baggy (or any other baggy), add some water, swirl it around and if there is sand it will settle to the bottom of the baggy.

What is her diet? And, how much? How tall is she? Waht does she weigh? It could be diet related, but no way to tell without knowing what she eats and how much.

 

[Mominis]

I'm with JMS. I'd have the vet do a fecal egg count and see if that is really the problem. By the way, stay away from Equimax, it has been known to cause ulcerations in the mouth and in the throat.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I actually use EquiMax and never have a problem with it. In fact my horses love that wormer, its a battle just trying to get it out of there mouths.

 

[Miniv]

I agree with having a fecal check done......

I'd also examine what she's eating. How much protein is she getting in her diet.

Lastly, is there a chance she could be pregnant?

 

[MindyLee]

Thanks for the info. The vet has asked for a poo sample but I cant seem to get a fresh one whats so ever. I watch and wait and get nothing. I think she only poos after I go to work or bed.

Also no she is not prego as she has a 3 month old filly on her side. She also has a good diet and has food in front of her now all day since the last post I had asking about her weight.

I do have one more question about the wormer I had gave her. How long will it be till I notice a difference in her lossing the swelling in her belly after worming her if it dose work?

 

[Becky]

It sounds to me like there is something more going on than worms. If her weight is good, she shouldn't have a big belly. I think I'd want a vet to take a look at her.

 

[Miniv]

One way to get her to poop for you is to load her onto a trailer.

As for her diet....How much protein is she getting? Is she on a 14 percent grain? What kind of hay? The reason why all the questions is that often a horse will get a big belly because of a low protein diet.

Last thing...how many babies has she had? A 14 yr old mare who's had a number of foals will not trim back up like a young mare. Those tummy muscles are stretched!

 

[MindyLee]

She has had only 3 or 4 foals, and her diet is 2 cups of Stratagy 2 times a day. Her hay is only grassy hay which is in front of her all day long. I know bellys streatch but she looks to be in foal with triplets and I can see her ribs.

Good advice with her pooping in the trailer! She will defently do it then!

 

[Mominis]

In two weeks, you should see an improvement from worming. The stool sample for your vet doesn't have to be 'right out of the oven,' but it does have to be fresh, so whatever you can collect from her stall that is still fairly moist-looking should do the trick. Maybe you should ask your vet about giving her a Powerpack. With the Ivermectin resistance, some of the wormers just aren't getting the job done. Also, if your rotational worming has missed anything, the Panacur Powerpack should get it. I just powerpacked my boys and one tube got it done over the five days as opposed to 5 tubes for a big horse. Gosh, I love minis! lol

You may consider, after you get this worming done, talking with your vet about starting her on daily Strongid. I love the stuff. It doesn't take much for these little guys and it sure keeps the fecal counts low.

 

[MindyLee]

Just left the vet's office and he said there are NO worms in her poo sample. BUT my yrling did have hook worms. The vet is also doing a cocidia-spelling ? test as well which takes 24 hrs.

He also suggested to start weaning the 3 month old filly on her side.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Could you post a photo? It may be nothing worse than lack of muscle tone. If she just stands around and doesn't excercise.

 

[cretahillsgal]

To me this sounds like she needs more protein/calories. The baby could be really pulling her down. I have one mare here who gives such good quality milk that her foals look like little meat wagons. But she always looses lots of tone over topline and ribs. And gets a bloated belly look like you are describing. She even looks more pregnant after the foal is a couple of weeks old, than she does right before foaling.

Once I wean the foal, she goes back to normal.

 

[stormy]

Mindy,

After seeing your horses at Midland a couple weeks ago I think you need to find someone in your area, or work with your vet to improve your feeding program for the herd over all. Bay has always been an easy keeper even with a foal on her, more is going on here than just parasites. Please find someone you can work with to help you figure out what is going on. There are several breeders/owners in your area that I'm sure would be glad to help you out.

 

[MindyLee]

Mindy,

After seeing your horses at Midland a couple weeks ago I think you need to find someone in your area, or work with your vet to improve your feeding program for the herd over all. Bay has always been an easy keeper even with a foal on her, more is going on here than just parasites. Please find someone you can work with to help you figure out what is going on. There are several breeders/owners in your area that I'm sure would be glad to help you out.

My herd looks good and their feeding program is fine. And I did have someone out to take a look at what I feed, which was determaned to be just fine. Everyone at that show never once came and said nothing to me, only talked behind my back. I do fully understand the yrling was a little ribby and she is a bite of a hard keeper (both parents are as well). And for the other mare who was'nt ribby at all, I never even planed on showing her as she just reciently lost her foal. But because I scratched my original mare and didnt want to throw away $200, so I decided to bring her instead.

As far as Bay goes, Im doing all that I can and know that she is a easy keeper. That why the vet is involved. This is the 3rd time I have seen the vet about her and he is doing tests to find out what is wrong. If nothing from the tests from today, blood work is next. He is starting to wonder about cushings or fluid around the uteris. But untill this test is done, I have to wait till tomarrow to start the next.

Otherwise in the meantime, asking the folks here who are more familiar with minis then most vets are, is what I am doing to see what others think and get opinions that I have been throwing at the vet.

 

[Bess Kelly]

My lactating mares generally receive 3 cups of 16%, soy based feed, 2X day, plus pasture and excellent hay. Most of my mares are on the smaller side, 30" average. The taller gals, get more! It's a lot of drain on these mares to feed the foal and keep themselves in shape. Remember that the foal will begin eating from mom's dish, so there's some going there...she's possibly not getting all her feed. While I don't disagree something else could be wrong, why not spend the $$ on a higher protein feed, feed more and see if you don't notice an improvement pretty quick. Sounds like you have the other bases covered. I have some 28" mares who get 2 cups/2X day and are not nursing or pregnant, and in excellent weight.

I use 16% for ALL of my herd....Blue Seal Demand.

 

[joyenes]

Hi Mindy,

I know you are doing everything right for your horses and that you really care for them. The problem is though if they are not responding (gaining weight) you should try a different feed and see if that helps. I feed a Junior feed for my pregnant and lacerating mares, also my junior horses until 2 - 3 years old depending on the horse. They get quite a bit more then two cups twice a day also. If they are hard keepers they may just need the junior feed and then bump up the amount as they adjust to it.Also I have found having grassy hay in front of them all day will just put on a big hay belly. Maybe you can get some second cutting alfalfa mix hay which will have way more protein. Trust me it can do wonders. I have fed many different feeds and hay types in my 30 years of horse ownership and have come to learn what really works well.

I did see your minis at Midland and I really think that it could just be an easy feed adjustment to put the weight on, of course that is once the vet rules out any other causes. I hope you don't think everyone talked behind your back, I think some were maybe just concerned, I know people shouldn't talk but unfortunately thats what some people do best. If you ever need any help or advice I would be more then happy to in a total nonjudgmental manor. I'm not to far from you either Take Care and I hope everything works out for you. Joyce

 

[MindyLee]

I want to PERSONALY THANK EVERYONE who has helped out with my situation with my horses and sorry to the folks who felt they had to email me derogatory things on this issue I am dealing with. As far as the 2 minis from the show, even tho they are on a regular worming schedual, they needed to be hit with a super strong dosage to compleatly clean out their systems and I need to rotate them with more of a selection then what I have been. So they where wormed 3 days in a row and are now gaining their weight back. I did also take all of your advice on here and changed my feeding program around and seems pretty promising for them. As far as the other mare goes, the vet said that there was some evidence of her retaining fluids which is causing her swelled belly and that the dramatic weight loss was a combination of needing more grain in her diet, the baby pulling her down as the foal is so big for her age, and the toxic plants she was nibbling on in the turnout pasture. He said mother mares weight dose change and just because they may have always been easy keepers, their bodys do change with age.

Thanks again everyone for all your help and advice! And if need it in the future, I will defently ask for more help!

PS: With 2nd cutting now being cut and available, I bought a whole field of it, so that way they have some fresh 2nd cutting finally.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Mindy, I do not think anyone was trying to be mean.

Sometimes we get too close to our own animals to actually see what is wrong, and everyone, without exception, gets automatically defensive if they are trying to remedy a situation and nothing is happening, then it sounds as if someone is criticising.

I do not know you and I have not seen the mare, but someone who has is giving, or trying to give, you good advice. There quite obviously issomething wrong, everything is quite obviously notjust fine, or you would not be on here asking for help.

Whatever is wrong, it would not appear to be worms (there is still no proven Ivermectin resistance, btw, I just went and did a search, in case something new had come in, so there is no need to keep rotating wormers, Ivermectin every eight weeks as a base is still fine) I would guess, and it is a guess, that lack of protein would be the next thing to look at. Some Vets are not "Mini savvy" and think they do not need feeding. If they are on good grazing this is often true, and my broodmares get no extra feed unless they look to need it.

It sounds to me as if your mare does need extra feed, and 16% would be a good place to start, plus, I would suggest, Beet Pulp.

I would bring her up to eating at least four cups per feeding and see how she goes, judging her by eye.

I am assuming you have had her teeth checked?

Now, keep your cool, people are trying to help, even if you do not want to hear what they are saying!