My personal opinion regarding AMHA/AMHR

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RelentlessMinis

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Hey there,

First off I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Kelbi, I am 17 years old and from Texas. I currently have shown AMHA, Pinto, and Open show circuits this year, at the World and local level, and would like to take the opportunity to voice my opinion on AMHA/AMHR and their way of running.

First off, I should state my "horse" background, as I think it's a big reflection on my personal views. I have been in the horse industry for about ten years now. Starting out with roping and rodeo, then later transferring over to the hunter/jumper world, then in to the pleasure/quarter horse disciplines eventually after that. I have spent summers working 9-5 under professional colt starters, reining trainers, and natural horsemanship specialists. I am only 17, but I have had a good taste of a few different associations and industries for my age and I feel like I have definitely gained something from each, good or bad. I train all of my own miniatures. I have never had one of my horses professionally trained. I have broken multiple horses to drive, and my horses truly excell in the halter/driving/showmanship/obstacle classes at the open shows and AMHA show level.

I have heard so much lately on how AMHA is going downhill, or people being unhappy with the registry in general. It makes me wonder if part of the reason there are so many issues is because of the standard of how the horses are shown, and the "goals" people have for their horses. A big problem I see from outside the ring is the "average joe" exhibitors having trouble "getting ears" or "getting a good neck stretch" and their horse looking "too relaxed" while on the other end there is the trainer with his/her horse all flared up, eyes wide open, horse looking like it is about to explode. I personally think the root of this is from the fact that a trainer does not get "personal" with their horses in training. They want their horses to be on fire in the ring, I've heard trainers say they want their horse "scared of them." While on the other hand, the average joes gives their horse lots of attention and training, to try and excel in the show ring, causing their horse to become "relaxed" while showing and end up getting the gate.

I personally can not stand this. To me, I see no joy in my animal fearing me. I've witnessed people "hyping up" their horses before they go in the ring. I think that if I have to do that to my show horse, then I have no desire to show. Its funny to me how big names in the mini world are so popular, when in reality they aren't true horseman if they punish a horse for becoming ok and relaxed with them. Where'd the true horsemanship go? Isn't the goal of training an animal to have it become familiar and accept you and your commands with a positive, willing attitude?

This also brings me to the point of AMHA lacking in local show entries. Do they not realize that people take their horse to one, maybe two shows to get it qualified, then stick it in the barn all year to make sure it isn't "dull" or "used to showing" by Worlds??? Hmmm... Maybe if the horses weren't shown how they are, then people wouldn't just go to one show and stop. Just a thought.

I guess you can say I am more of a Quarter Horse style person. I love the way their horses are so relaxed in their job, and go with such ease in the halter classes and performance, and can show successfully in to their teen years.

Why is it that it was decided that minis should be shown in such a way that they are now a days? I find it sickening how a horse can be given a world champion title, after it bucked, kicked, and reared its way in to the ring. Imagine a 16hh Quarter Horse halter stallion doing that? It's not acceptable, and extremely dangerous. However, it's desired in the small horses. I don't understand. I feel as if minis being as small as they are makes people unethical. I don't think that they should be treated differently than a large horse, just because they are smaller.

I wish there was a registery in which we could show our horses like the AQHA does so. I'd sure spend my money there!! You'd think with AQHA being as large as it is and so successful, that the mini registries would try to mimic some of their ways. I just think it would be neat to aim for a horse that showed at ease in driving, halter, etc. I feel like it is pointless to spend $15,000+ on an AMHA/AMHR yearling or two year old when it only truly has two years to be able to be competitive. I could definitely see myself spending that money on a horse that I could consistently show for 5 years or so, much more worth the money, and many more years to go for a big title!

Sorry for such a long post. I was just dying to get my opinion out there as well! I am not trying to slam or bash a certain trainer, or any horse/person for that madder. Just speaking out in an up front kind of way. Please feel free to post a response, I'd gladly love to talk to you on your opinions too. I am aware I am extremely young and inexperienced compared to most of you, but I do thank the creators of this forum for allowing people like me to speak out on topics that spark their interest. After all, I'm truly just a horse-crazy kid trying to do my best in the show world!

Kelbi

:)
 
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You may be young in years but you are oh so very wise.I totally agree with you.I have seen many top notch winning show horses that I would not have if they were given to me due to their very bad attitude. I so agree with your statement that Minis should be able to be competitive for many years.Due to their size there are many Minis who have been permitted to have very bad manners.I am no longer breeding but when I was I always aimed for an animal that had looks and lots between the ears.Some of the Minis I bred and sold to others are still winning at age 15.They have earned many awards in both halter and performance and also still do therapy work.The Quarter Horse is 1 of the most versatile equine breeds and the breed I most always suggest for a new rider/owner.We could learn lots from them as you suggested.
 
Welcome Kelbi to the lilbeginings forum. Very well written statement. That is great that you do all your own training. While I agree with some of your points let me just throw this angle out there. When comparing a full sized horse association or any for that matter to the miniatures I think that is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, there are some similarities and I agree some aspects that could be considered for the miniature horse associations that may help promote or perhaps encourage( a better word) people to participate more in the shows. I look forward to seeing you post and hope you enjoy the forum.
 
I love your post!

I do (personally) disagree with some of your points... Some breeds such as Andalusians and Saddlebreds I've seen halter animals pretty rambunctious and theryrw shown at the end of long lead ropes to really let them move out in some breeds.

Some horses who are friendly pets (such as my own gelding in my avatar) are all fire in the show ring but relaxed pets otherwise.

I also disagree with most best horses only showing to qualify so they don't get burned out... In AMHR there are a lot of heavily campaigned horses and horses that chase all star points that hold their own.

Personally I love a hot horse and absolutely hate QH as I find them dull, unathletic, boring, and unattractive. But I do respect that some people are opposite and that there may be a very viable direction for part of the registry to go.

I hear some desire for a stock horse division, and your post is wonderful arguments for one!!!

Great post!
 
Kelbi, I totally agree with the point you are making ! Very well said. I don't show but if I did I would treat my animals with love and respect.
 
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Good post. I come from a QH background as well, and do relate to some of what you are saying. I do also believe there are good trainers out there who don't instill fear in their horses, who take the time to build a relationship with them and know how to ask their horses to turn it on in the ring. Walk through the barns at World or Nationals sometime - the way people handle their horses offstage is every bit as revealing as it is at a QH show or any other breed.

As Disneyhorse pointed out, there are probably more similarities to the way other big breeds are shown, ie Andalusians, Arabs.. than to QHs. The mini world is a little different in that most of the breeders & exhibitors didn't start with minis, they represent - as you do - time spent with many other breeds and disciplines, and the biases and preferences that come with that. Keeps life interesting, and keeps us growing and evolving.

Jan
 
Great post and welcome to LilBeginnings.
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I'm with disneyhorse/Andrea on this one though. I want my horses to have a little fire. And like Andrea said somehorses love to show and know when it is show time and what you see in the ring won't even be remotely close to what you see at home.

History wise the whole Arabian look and Arabian style of showing started with AMHA. It has sorta carried over into AMHR but with AMHR being closely tied to ASPC you are more likely to see horses shown more like a Saddlebred in AMHR particularly if the AMHR exhibitor also shows ASPC Shetlands.

There are a lot more older animals out there showing than you think, particularly in performance, and remaining extremely competative. At AMHR Nationals one of the Golden Age Country Pleasure Driving Champions was 5 and this was his first year really out in driving though he's been showing at Nationals since he was a yearling. Jan Tobey's Park Harness mare is 5, Sansevere's Roadster horse Enchanted Hollow's King Zebulon is 16, Excliber's Sir Roland who kicked butt in Youth and helped his handler win high point is 9, his full sister Excaliber's Lady Guinivere also showed and she's 12, Bandido's Run & Gun who I believe was Reserve Senior Champion Over is 7, CLR's Rock Solid the Park Harness Over Stake Champion is 7 - the list of truly senior horses that showed very successfully at Nationals goes on and on!

And just an interesting tidbit of trivia - the ASPC Congress Grand Champion Modern Mare 43" and Under who was also the ASPC Congress Stakes Champion in Modern Formal Driving 43" and under at this year's Shetland Congress is 21. The Congress Grand Champion Modern Stallion Over 43" to 46" at this year's Shetland Congress was 13.
 
I agree with your statements in a way. As far as horses fearing the handlers I have heard not just by trainers but by owners as well that you can't baby them or have a "bond" when it comes to halter horses. I totally hate this statement just like you. If it has to be that way then I don't want any part of it. I love to work with my horses and love on them and my one halter horse still does really well showing for me. IMO either they have a heart to do it for you or they just don't care for halter. I have one thats a chore to show her in halter which really sucks but I can't make her show for me. Also most of the halter horses aren't trained, when I say trained I mean actually worked with besides being conditioned. So a lot of your halter horses are going to be more naturally hotter vs your cold horses that are more of your showmanship/obstacle performers. For me personally I like mine to be somewhere in the middle. I want them to have a little spunk but not dancing on the end of the lead but I don't want a dead head either but I still want mine to perform with a cool head.

As far as how many shows people or trainers go to I also agree people will feel that way. I know at the R shows in my area you see the top trainers go and show the same horses at like 4 shows if not more and actually try to compete, and it can be real competitive when over half the time you are showing against the trainers but it feels real good for an amateur like me to be competitive with them and just shows that my training program I'm doing something right. I can also see a point of view that you don't want to dull the horse. Some horses will get tired of showing and don't want to be burned out. I want horses that will go out and enjoy their job. I love to show, I don't breed, so I want horses that love to show as well and I got to several shows thru out the year. I have had a couple of horses that have shown for several years in a row and will soon take a year off. I had one that sort of got burnt out and he had 4 years off and I brought him back out again this year he was great. So you just got to feel what is best for the horse. Next year I'll be showing one thats 11, one thats 10, one 5, and the other who just began her show career will be 4.

As far as training goes you have to treat these minis like a horse, if you don't then you will run into problems. I don't show in AMHA so can't speak for them but the shows in AMHR at least in my area are strong with competition and it's a lot of fun.
 
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Great post Kelbi!

I personally have always worked with morgan show horses. I have had the "hunter" morgan that I could trail ride and ride bareback but when it was show time he was ALL business and knew exactly how to show off. I also have a once saddleseat show horse who was trained with fireworks (before I purchased him) as well as bag whips. He is the BIGGEST love bug I have ever owned, I put little kids on him and could lead/play with him for hours on end. But when I work him or ask something of him he is very showy, even at home and I know longer show him. He will flag his tail and trot very high with no weights or special shoes. It is really just who he is, its in his blood.

I obviously LOVE the extra spark and fire in a horse! I treat my horses as if they were my lap dogs at home... They are all loved and cared for like backyard pets!

I am new to the mini world but my first mini mare very naturally has a showy personality. She will flag her tail and snort when let into her paddock and has a floating animated trot that matches my morgan show horses. I believe the miniature has a lot of the same spark and fire a morgan or arab has naturally. Although each individual is different in its own unique way.

I can accomplish the EXACT same thing at my barn with my morgans that the show trainers do except they use lots of (unnecessary) tools. Many morgans are kept in stalls all week and only brought out to be worked and chased around the ring. Like I said before, my morgan has the SAME exact spark and fire even when he is turned out everyday and worked regularly, and I LOVE it!

I do not agree with many things trainers do, but it is not all of them! I was watching nationals and worlds just recently and actually couldn't believe how many times the handler pulled the lead and banged the horses head WHILE they were stretched out and looked perfect. I noticed MANY times the trainer would look over at someone else or behind them and the entire time they would be pulling on the horses head while not even looking at the horse. Just seemed strange to me.

I myself am 19 but have been and worked with horses since I was 7 years old. I have seen and worked with trainers from all over and for the past 5 years I have trained all of my own horses including completely wild 2 year old rescues. So I have seen a lot and know I have a lot more to see and learn! This forum is so wonderful because we can all share our stories and personal views and really learn from inspiring and insightful people who respond and post back.

Really enjoyed reading your post Kelbi and I completely agree with several things you pointed out.

-Lexi
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Welcome to the small equine world. I too spent a good majority of time in the stock world. Interestingly enough - the last big horse I had a mere 9 years ago was a dressage horse and we had a blast. I was going to do miniatures only until I went to an auction and fell in love with two sisters, mares. Their trot and 'life' was to die for.

As Lewella stated- there is a good majority of us who show in both worlds. I have heavily campaigned in the ASPC/ASPR and now tried my hand at the NSPPR world. But I have miniatures. In either world - I like to have my animals 'want' to show and be totally 'down' when not. And they are. When I ask them to show - they show their butts off, when I am at the stalls or at home- they are fairly relaxed.

As far as queuing them up - yes some trainers hype the animals up and then have a hard time getting them into the ring and yes our judges like to see an animal on fire, but there are others who are calm and know an animal will show when asked, therefore don't hype the animal up.

For the most part though - many of those hyped up animals are shown by youth the first part of the World and National shows - so I think you either missed that or?

It's a different world than the stock world. But much more endearing, there is much more a passionate exchange between animal and human, the communication is still there.

Your post gives a lot of good thought and wisdom beyond your 17 years on this earth - you will be a great addition to the small equine world!!!
 
Where is that "like" button when you need it?? Because I very much "LIKE" your post Kelbi, and agree you are wise beyond your years. Also, welcome to the forum!!

I have been in the horse world far, far longer than Kelbi, but still lack some of the experience she has had. I agree with so much she said though, and that is one reason why we show mostly on the Pinto circuit. I have been showing the same mare for 8 years now (since she was a yearling), and she is still competitive. We show in everything - Open and Ammy classes, halter and performance. (I am getting older though, and it is harder for ME to compete!). My mare is quiet and often a brat, but when she gets into the halter ring she can turn it on, get her ears up, and show. I think it is mostly genetic because her family tree includes a lot of successful show horses in halter and driving. I definitely appreciate it anyway.
 
Kelbi, I have you on Facebook and I LOVE seeing updates of you and your horses. I am so jealous. Congrats at Worlds btw!
 
I like your post. Well, stated and thought out. However, I have a 32", 9 yr old (now gelding) that has been shown since he was 2. According to the guy who "trained" him, "he's a natural". He stops square, and has from the very first time, and only after he gets to know you will he give neck. He "gives" because he likes you and wants to please and knows that is what is expected in halter. Anyone that he's not familiar with has to "work" to get his attention. The rest of the time he's VERY laid back and loves attention. He also drives and jumps etc.
 
Thank you to all the members that posted a reply! I thoroughly enjoyed reading what each one of you had to say. Some very interesting points were brought up. Also, thank you all for the very nice compliments. I sure do appreciate them.
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Oh my gosh. Your editorial is awesome and exactly what I see and feel about AMHA. Im 40 years into horses. Retired barrel racer. Also gave it a go in other disciplines like you. Train all my horses myself (except one). Spent years with AQHA, APHA, GRA (wpra) , CSHA and local clubs. I am so disheartned with the abuse I to have witnessed and cheating going on in AOTE. After many years as a AMHA member. Im not renewing 2013. Im done with them. Im going to try R and do more pinto. I want to be around people that are not obsessed with winning at all costs. Thank you for your post
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Excellent post Kelbi. I have admired you in the ring since you joined miniatures and am so glad that you did!
 
Great post, but it goes for AMHR as well. I remember watching Nationals and one horse in particular, who I know took National Champion and may have gone further, was terrified of the trainer and barely stood still. I still have no idea how the judges even got a good look of the horse, they had to have been quick. He was stunning, was just obviously extremely flighty. I hope I never see that one in the driving ring.
 
What a refreshing topic. So many valid points and all so very well said.

Lots of things to think about and put to use in the future.

We have a couple of co op students coming in next week from a horse handling course at a nearby training centre, to do a week with miniatures. Their background would be more quarter horses and standard breds. Miniatures, a whole new world.

I am going to print your topic for them.

Welcome to the forum.
 

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