Miniature Nationals

Discussion in 'Pony Talk' started by LostInOz, Aug 19, 2010.

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  1. Aug 27, 2010 #41

    JWC sr.

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    Jackie,

    I agree with you that there is a natural group of folks that have done mini's for years, that can and will be attracted to them initially because of the horses and then if they attend or get to see a world class show such as Nationals is will become pony owners.

    Personally we have been in miniatures since 1982 and never were interested in Shetlands. But I fell in love with one "Rhythm" and bought her at a sale here in Texas several years ago. Then we went to congress just to watch, fell in love all over again and started buying Shetlands, we now have 9.

    It is a natural market and one that thru web casting, a world class show with awards and futurities etc to match, is one that can be dramatically expanded in a very short period of time.

    Put the Congress permanently in a central part of the country, promote the daylights out of it, expose as many people as you can both in the mini ranks and other breeds thru web casting and advertising, we will be part of having another Nationals on our hands with all that goes with it.

    IMHO any way!!! [​IMG]
     
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  2. Aug 27, 2010 #42

    ruffian

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    Shetlands are beautiful ponies that have tremendous talent and ability. BUT if the local clubs cannot count on the ponies attending and supporting the local shows, then how can ASPC/AMHR justify spending money raised by AMHR on upgrading the Congress? Many shows in my area have completely dropped the ASPC classes because no ponies were showing. . I went to one show this summer that had over 100 minis and 7 ponies. Folks need to show locally to raise awareness and popularity. One show last year had 1 pony. Just one. the clubs cannot afford to provide ribbons/trophies and have no ponies show up.

    It's basic accounting for any large business. Each department must handle the finances in a fiscally responsible manner. Taking from AMHR to pay for ASPC is robbing Peter to pay Paul. The size of the ribbons, or the fact that it's a neck ribbon versus a trophy or straight ribbon doesn't "make" the show for me. It's the fact that the best of the best are competing, and if I get to place at all, it's a thrill.
     
  3. Aug 27, 2010 #43

    JWC sr.

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    I agree a show for us is also guaged by the competition that is at the show and how we stacked up against that competition. It is indeed a hollow victory to win a division when there is no real competition. [​IMG]

    But with that said lets take one step at a time in my opinion, while I would love to see the same qualification process for the Shetlands as with the mini's put into effect. This thread was about how to make Congress a viable show that grows and is a world class show. [​IMG]

    So with that said I still believe the points I made earlier are viable:

    1. The ardmore facility may not have been perfect,but it was a far cry better than gordyville. Which is a good thing. You could not have asked for a better facility staff that jumped anytime someone needed something. They wanted us there which is also an improvement over the previous few years. Yes more ventilation, showers etc would have been nice but we all survived and it was a fun show.

     

    2. Shetlands deserve a permanet home, somewhere in the central part of the country and with room for the show to grow.

     

    3. The facility needs to be world class and have the amenities that go with that type venue.

     

    4. Dates that have historically been used for Congress may have to be altered to get in with a world class facility, but there again the Shetland breed deserves a chance to be all they can be.

     

    5. Web Casting was a great thing and I was glad to have helped sponsor it and would again if ask to. The amount of exporsure shetlands got, even within our own registry (AMHR/ASPC) will only help to grow the breed. We need this to bring us into the world wide web picture.

     

    6. The cost of the facility is more than likely going to increase and therefore the cost to us exhibitors. I personally am okay with increasing the costs to the levels of the R national show as long as we can put Congress in a place befitting a National, world class show!!

     

    7. Having the youth classes on days encompassing a weekend is a good thing for the kids as the miss less school and even if it means we are rushed with the grandkids, we are willing sacrifice a little breathing room for the kids ability to attend as versus not being able to attend due to school constraints. Just FYI 6 of our 10 grandkids show!!

     

    Bottom line is that in my opinion the Okalahoma club, the selection committee, the area five people all did a much improved job of putting on the show. I appreciate their efforts immensely.

     

    Now lets all decide at convention this year to have Ardmore one more year and in the meantime find a facility for Congress, such as Tulsa is for Nationals a permanet home, with great facilities and an overall venue we can all be proud of.

     

    If the BOD is going to make the decision, I am okay with that and intend to write my BOD members and the EC what my suggestions are. If they decide to let us all vote on it, that is even better if they will give multiple facilities and date options to go along with the options. There a lot of things that go into picking a site other than location, dates and price. Those are important factors, but there are others that have more long term and profound effects on everyone even those that choose not to ever show!!

    Then for next years convention I would suggest that we propose and hopefully pass a qualification requirement package thta is appropriate! [​IMG]
     
  4. Aug 28, 2010 #44

    LaVern

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    I agree Ruffian.

    I think I have posted this before and taken a beating, but as much as I would hate to see it happen personally, I think there will come a day that Nationals and Congress will have to be combined. Financially it only makes sense. A facility Like Tulsa could handle it I think. Sure there would have to be give and take, but I think it could be done. Using more that one ring- different classes going on at the same time, stuff like that. And of course there is the problem for some, in deciding if you have a pony or a horse.

    Also about the qualifying. I think that if pony folks had to show at more local and state fair to qualify for Congress it would get the Shetlands out for the public to see it would promote them positively. Most people,except for those that go to Congress, don't have a clue what todays Shetland Ponies look like.
     
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  5. Aug 28, 2010 #45

    Minimor

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    For starters, I don't think it's really anything so much to do with the size of the ribbons...LaVern, Mini nationals didn't have a problem with 2 or whatever it was you said bathrooms and "bring your own toilet paper" but what if one of those two bathrooms was dirty/overflowing "health hazard" type of thing and the show is likely to be once again held in a facility that has some people saying they won't go back as long as it is there (for a multitude of reasons). If you go to see the show & facility for yourself, perhaps take along your own toilet to go with that toilet paper?
    So, from 530 entries in 2009 to 407 entries (that is the number that measured in for 2010 Congress I am told)...some of those 407 entries won't be back in 2011 if the show is in Ardmore, others won't be back regardless because of other plans owners have made for 2011...sure, maybe some extra people will decide to show in 2011 to boost numbers, but others won't 'pony up' and go there to show because of what they saw/heard this year, and it doesn't seem likely the show is going to grow--and that's really too bad. I see it as kind of a chicken/egg question--which came first, the poor turnout or the poor facility??

    The best thing I've heard about Ardmore is "it's better than what they had in previous years". Maybe so, but from what everyone says, that really isn't saying very much at all!

    Surely to goodness there is an affordable facility that is clean and has ventilated barns so the ponies can be comfortable even when they aren't showing?? Many arenas aren't as big as the one in Ardmore, but I'm quite sure people won't complain that an arena is too small if they aren't displeased with the facility in general! When people are unhappy with something they will complain about every single thing there is to complain about, just to add weight to their main complaint! Rather than selling them on some HUGE arena that then gets cut down to make space for other things, give them an arena that is an honest 85x200 (or whatever, 100x200 if you prefer) and they will be happy with the arena size!
     
  6. Aug 28, 2010 #46

    LaVern

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    I have to respond to the statement about so many miniature people getting into the Shetlands. And it is true. However you can see where a few of us old AMHR die hards harbor some old grudges.

    Some of the miniature people and a lot of the miniature trainers that have come over, are old AMHA people-- the same AMHA people that did nothing but belittle our Straight AMHR horses and laugh at our little Nationals. But we plugged along. Now they want nicer facilities and more stuff for their Shetlands and who is supposed to pay for it? Guess Just another one of my hang ups.
     
  7. Aug 28, 2010 #47

    horsefeather

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    Oh, I know better than post this, but I must! I whole heartly agree with LaVern! We have both minis and shetlands, but I guess I'm a die hard miniature person. And I, for one, would absolutely HATE to have to share OUR Miniature Nationals with the shetlands. OK, said enough.

    Pam
     
  8. Aug 28, 2010 #48

    JMS Miniatures

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    I also totally agree. I think if that ever happens they need to make it where if you are AMHR/ASPC you can only choose 1 event Nationals or Congress, can't do both. Guess who would loose out on that end, Congress.

    Once again I like the ponies, I have nothing against them. It has been said you need a pernament home for Congress and preferably central. You can't have it just nice as the facilities at Tulsa, there is just no way but Congress does deserve a calibar arena.

    I would be curious to know if people would be actually willing to show their ponies at local shows to get qualified. Atleast for 1 show.

    The awards need to be the same type as you would receive at Nationals. I totally agree with that. However when you talk about facilities its just hard to see Congress getting as nice as facilities as Nationals when you only have 500 ponies vs 1500 miniatures.

    I had a pony shown at Congress when it was held in St. Louis. To me it felt like a large regional show for shetland ponies. It was kind of depressing.

    I think Congress has alot more room to grow and somebody just needs to take incitive. Get the word out. This years webcast I'm sure helped alot. I only knew about it on Facebook. I did not see AMHR/ASPC advertise for it, and it did not help that the Journal was late and all ASPC coverage wasn't before hand. I didn't even remeber when Congress took place without the help of Facebook. Thats your problem, no word of mouth especially from the registry itself.
     
  9. Aug 28, 2010 #49

    JWC sr.

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    Minimor, not sure where you got your numbers from as far as the attendance at the Ardmore Congress, but the numbers are somewhere between 450 and 500, which is not a bad turn out with the economy like it is, Parnell and one other large group not making it at the last minute etc etc. in my opinion. Heck even R Nationals was down last year! [​IMG]

    But with that said it is a long way from where it needs to be.

    Wherever it is decided to be held, we will be there next year and hopefully for years to come. Even if they decided to combine the two national shows we would go and participate. Not something I really want to see, but it will be what it will be. [​IMG]

    As for as the old grudges to-wards the A trainers, breeders etc., I am very aware of those feelings and have had them myself having come from R originally and then moving into A for 11 or 12 years and having that personal experience ourselves that was not fun. But we persevered and kept breeding the horses we liked and it has all worked out just fine. [​IMG]

    There is always some of that that lingers I guess, but in the same breath I personally want what is best for these small equine we have devoted so much of our life to and have decided to personally give it a rest for that end. The same goes for theShetland breed, we are new to the breed with only 3 years and 9 shetlands right now, whatever is best for the breed long term is exactly where i am going to be coming from!!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  10. Aug 28, 2010 #50

    Minimor

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    See, I guess we agree on one thing, cuz I would absolutely hate to have to spend 10 days at Nationals in order to show my ponies at Congress. As much as I love my Minis I have absolutely no interest in being at Nationals. I think it would be a bad idea to combine the two shows--and not because some owners would have to chose either one or the other to show their double registered horses in.

    John, I was told 438 if you count the scratched entries....407 that actually measured in. <shrugs> I was told there are those who will argue that.

    edited to add: if you check the show results page, it shows 438 entries for Congress. I think if you count the entries that are actually listed...which I assume are those actually measured in...the number comes up as 407. I was going to double check that, but the page isn't opening for me tonight. I'll have my better computer back tomorrow so I might be able to open it then, or maybe tonight if there's less traffic on the site it will work on this one. I presume that 438 includes Larry's ponies & those of whomever else had entered & then didn't get there to show...407 without them.

    So yes, definitely entries were well down for 2010 compared to 2009, even if you go with the number entered as opposed to the number measured in for 2010. It's a long way from 500!
     
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  11. Aug 29, 2010 #51

    JWC sr.

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    Minimor,

    We have agreed and disagreed on a number of things in the past and I am sure will again in the future. [​IMG]

    I bet we can agree on this also, I enjoyed Congress, getting to see everyone was a blast. I am already working towards next year, where ever it is held!! [​IMG]

    We had a good show to say the least. Further, A day spent with horse people is a much better day than one without spent without them!!! LOL [​IMG]
     
  12. Aug 30, 2010 #52

    ~Lisa~

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    John I agree!!

    I can not wait until this issue is decided and done with so everyone can move on. I hope it is done by the time Convention is over. There is so much more ASPC has to put attention to so I for one will be glad when this "turf war" is over [​IMG]
     
  13. Sep 2, 2010 #53

    LostInOz

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    Instead of complaint after complaint - there is nothing wrong with complaining, it is how we get things to change; HOWEVER it would be nice for everyone to add a POSITIVE, POSSIBLE solution along with your complaint!

    I complain that the schedule needs some tweaking - Who is on the committee? How can I get on the committee? What classes would we like to see? Amy had a good idea that each committee (Modern, Classic, etc) should review the final class list and put in SUGGESTIONS. If this happens it needs done in JANUARY - not June, to allow time for changes, IF ANY, to occur.

    Someone mentioned Local Shows adding pony classes. Hello? If no ponies show up they are not out any "extra ribbons". That's a pretty weak excuse and to me, shows me that the mentality is that you do NOT want ponys to show. The ribbons should be the same for mini or pony classes and if your show manager is smart, they aren't putting dates on the ribbons anyway, so they can be re-used. I know one show manager doesn't use ribbons at all but gives out certificates you can use at the vendors (tack or food) or trade them in at the office for $$ off your bill OR a ribbon if you really want one. Keep the pony classes in there - encourage them to come! It doesn't cost anything more.

    My local PtHA won't offer pony/mini classes. They are missing the boat there too. I look upon it as they don't want us "pony people" so they won't get my money. My local PtHA is also struggling to remain solvent. If you don't open your brain to new ideas you will eventually have NO ASSOCIATION people! Like any business the business HAS TO CHANGE to current market conditions to survive.

    I don't think "the Shetland people" are asking the association for more money. They are asking for more QUALITY in what we are getting. It may take more money to get there, but IF you use the right people, and go about it the right way, it can be done. I'm saying maybe we need to look at Mini Nationals and see where we can copy and use some of the same ideas to improve Congress.

    I'm sure Nationals did not start out with 1000+ entries!! How did it start? How did it build up to where it is today? Was it "build it and they will come" ? or did you have to have 1000 entries before you ever offered any nice awards or facilities? Somehow I think it was the former rather than the latter.

    Some POSITIVE suggestions and Ideas people. This isn't a Shetland vs. Mini thread! [​IMG]
     
  14. Sep 2, 2010 #54

    disneyhorse

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    I am pretty sure Nationals did not start out as big as it is today... but I have only been to the Nationals for just over ten years. My first Nationals was Columbia, Missouri. I think it was the last year they held it there. They had definitely grown out of that facility, too many horses... the temporary stalls were pretty bad I remember it had rained and the tents (yes, I am pretty sure they were tents!) over the temp stalls were not the greatest... so it was not a case of "build it and they will come." I don't think you should overdo things in hopes that you will someday meet those dreams, that's just not good business sense... but I don't see why Congress is that big of an issue in the first place... there are plenty of positives and EvERYTHING always has opportunities for improvement.

    Andrea
     
  15. Sep 2, 2010 #55

    JWC sr.

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    You know it is a blend of a number of different things that keep this Congress issue always in flux, there are those that say "hey this is the way we have always done it and we don't want to change" and there are those that say "The Shetland world is changing and we as a registry need to change and expand everything to do with the Shetland breed". [​IMG]

    Personally I understand and can appreciate both sides of the equation and agree with lot of points both sides have come up with. [​IMG]

    So in the future I think it is going to take a concerted effort by the BOD to pay attention to both sides and ease into a transition period where we blend the needs of both groups for the betterment of the breed itself. [​IMG]

    Neither side is going to get everything they want, but all will benefit from a fiscally responsible, aggressive, responsive to the needs of today's equine owner new and old alike, long and short range plan for the breed. We all as breeders, owners, judges, trainers and just stewart's of the breed owe that to the breed and the registry in my opinion. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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