Miniature market...i think I am cutting back..

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mini horse mania

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The market is horrible here in nc..i can barely get $500 for a quality foal...it breaks my heart..but I believe I may sell most of my herd...and keep only a few mares to build my program with. I just dont see the point in breeding for more horses,when its so hard to place all the ones you have born that you are not keeping.i even had a $200 offer for my lucky four medicine man daughter..& she wasnt even listed for sale. I love my minis,and I love my foals,but I feel as if breeding is just not worth it anymore for us.with the cost of feed,hay,vet care,and the stress on mares,the chance of losing the foal and mare...it gives ypu second thoughts.,i cant suffice giving the foals away either. I will keep my DJ foals for myself,and enjoy them myself .i am hoping to get into showing this year...how are minis selling around you.?
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I'm in the same boat here in Texas. I now have the best horses I've had in 20 years but I also decided not to breed.
 
It's why there are so many new folks. Feed costs has caused a huge influx of minis on the market..some, like mine, never even had vet care or farrier work. Lovely, all of them, just ignored, and not cared for. I wanted to bring them all home (glad I didn't!) Some of these horses were bought for thousands..and owner interest waned. So the expensive, registered horses were left on their own pretty much..the results are some nice offspring, and some not so nice, but eventually a 'take your pick, $150 each' attitude. Since no one is sure which stud fathered which foal any longer, no papers.

I believe there is a crop of new owners,perhaps not interested in showing, or breeding, but who love the horses they own, and will care for them well.

On a side note, folks don't stop to think that the cost of feed, shelter, vet care, etc, etc, is the same, no matter how much a critter costs Be it $200 or $5000, the costs are comparable.. Like the free puppy that costs $500 in the first month, lol.
 
No horse is worth that little, its sad to think their value has dropped that much. Prices over here are still pretty high, but I'm not sure if the sellers are getting what they are listing for. And we don't have any problems with feed, no snow here so grass all year round.
 
The mini market is terrible. All you have to do is look at the MareStare auctions with so many quality horses and such low bids or no bids. On the other hand, it's a great time to buy quality horses for bargain prices. It's a huge decision to bring another life into the world so I can understand why people aren't going to be breeding just to sell a quality foal for a couple of hundred dollars. Not worth the risk to mom or baby and costs more than that to give adequate prenatal care and delivery care to mare.
 
I don't see how people can keep breeding and selling minis for $200-$500 - they have to be losing money if they factor in all the costs to produce the foal.

I think one of the issues (maybe the biggest one) is that we can't keep selling minis for the main purpose of breeding more minis!!! It is a bit like a pyramid scheme and we know those just don't work. There are plenty of things that can be done with minis (and cheaper than with big horses) and I think we need to do a better job of spreading the word. JMO.

For our part, we started a 4-H Club with our minis and those clubs are becoming very popular here in New England.
 
I haven't had any babies since 2010, and really I didn't have any in 2009. I onlt bred mares in 2009 with the hope that the market would improve, it hasn't. I'm in Southern Maryland and I did consign a few bred mares to the Champion Sale, I lost my shirt. Vet and feed costs are killing me, I've been operating in the red for years now. I have one mare I paid $3200 for the high bid on her was $500. She has produced a AMHA Reserve Champion, and she also had a great show carrier. Needless to say, she is still here so I may have a foal next year. The problem right now is people are holding onto their money, they are scared, yes there are new people coming in, but not enough. We are taking our minis to a 4-H show tomorrow, and although everyone oohs and ahhs, they want quarter horses. We also take brochures with us to hand out to promote the minis. I have in the past made sales from these open shows but not anymore. There is also an influx of horses right now, and some breeders have run into hard financial times and needed to sell quickly so prices are low on many good horses. I'm not breeding anymore until things get better, and even then maybe not. Thinking of going out of business with the breeding and going back to a hobby like we started, and just show and possable have a foal now and then for us to show, but I need to get my numbers down first, because of all of my overhead.
 
I sold and stopped breeding for this exact reason. Foals aren't selling and too expensive to feed so many. All I had was geldings because I honestly enjoy showing more then breeding, once I made that decision the stress certainly has gone. I did buy 1 mare this year because the price was right with intentions on showing and perhaps breed her in the future but I feel breed for one real nice foal and keep him/her for the price I want or just keep period.
 
We also made the decision not to breed any longer. Even tho we never really even got started (we had one live foal and one angel foal this year), we feel like unless we plan on keeping all the foals (which isn't really affordable to us) and we don't want to "give" them away, we shouldn't be bringing any more foals into the world. There are enough babies being born that if we want to show a baby, we can find a nice one for a good price.

We love showing and that is what are plans are for our horses. Originally, we also wanted to cut back, but now my head is thinking "Jr. gelding, Sr gelding, Under gelding, Over gelding"....hmmm....LOL! Deb mentioned to me just this morning that isn't the plan....oops!
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I am planning on showing my foals for the fun of it.many of the mares I purchased were already bred and due the next three months.so I will sell those foals as pets as I did not get a service memo as promised.there are sooo many grade stallions around us for $100_$200,the market is flooded.i plan on gelding my colts to sell as pets to cut back.

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... It just seems like there are so many nice minis for sale at what would be a bargain price for breedstock,but I cant suffice spending the money with no return on the sale of foals.we sell the foals to help cover mare care,but with no market for them, we would be quickly overwelmed. There are just too many breeders ...imo...and the folks wanting minis around us want pretty,cheap,and dont care about pedigree..i cant do it. There is too much upkeep and risk to give your heart and soul away every time you sell a foal you personally delivered or spent countless hours with for a few hundred dollars. The quality of minis is all around,but if you look at the whole picture...breeders buy from breeders to breed more.my neighbors for instance ,they buy two reg minis,they breed them..a unwanted colt is born,and sold registered for $100 just to get rid of it no matter the quality.
 
It's heart-breaking for sure...we can't even sell 100% Arenosa ponies which used to sell quickly. You have to give them away for almost nothing. It is breaking our hearts, but we are going to sell out because we can't afford to keep them anymore!

Jenny
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It's not the mini market it is the horse market in general. A friend just gave us a 1/4 horse mare sired by Artful Move that they had paid $10,000 for. She is giving others away as well.
 
We have stopped breeding also but not for any of the reason's above.

We wanted a colt out of our stallion and it just happened to take 5 fillies

to get him. We leased him back to his original breeder and she got 2 colts

from him, along with 6 fillies, so we knew he had it in him. Thankfully he

didn't keep us waiting a lot longer.

We are at 9 horses including our last full size horse. That is plenty for

2 people to properly care for their every need.

We had thought, at one time, we might breed to sell one a year but that

fell by the wayside once the first one was born and I could hold it in my arms.

So we've kept all we've bred with the exception of one filly that my girl friend

just HAD to have. As she is my farrier's girlfriend, also, she has a dream home

with them.

Since I can't separate myself from them then it's our responsibility to keep our

numbers at a level that we logically know we have room for and can care for.

We did buy a mare with the express purpose of breeding her. Life interrupted

and we never got around to it.... I offered her for sale and like many of you

was quite insulted at the offers that came in.

There is no need for her to go anyplace as she is just so nice to have around.

I had thought with her conformation and bloodlines ?maybe? someone would want to use her.

We paid real American dollars for her and no way would I even think of taking dimes on the dollar

for her.

So we bought a small mini saddle and are going to train her as a lead line pony for my young

grandson.

Problem solved and for the immediate future there is no need to breed any longer.

I sure do wish that when I was in the horse buying mode that these gorgeous animals were selling

for what they are now rather than the prices I paid.
 
We don't have any foals coming this year. We did breed for next year, but most are all Jane's mares and only one is mine.

Sold a 2YO filly, she was only $250 yet the people wanted to dicker on her price! Really, people. It cost $30 for her Coggins alone, she is Futurity nominated and sustained, papers in hand. definitely lost money on that, but at least we aren't feeding her anymore.

I also have a nice AMHR/ASPC gelding for sale. Paid $1500 for him, can't get even $500 for him. At this point I would trade for an EE cart or even GIVE him away to someone who wanted a nice pony to teach to drive. He's being wasted here.
 
It's sad that the only thing people think they can do with their minis is breed, so untrue, but it's definately contributing to the problem. Not to mention that people are breeding grade minis like crazy - just saw an ad on craigslist for my area and they have a 30" grade mini mare who has a 6wk old colt on her side and is bred back for 2013 for sale for $300, basically $100 each for the mare, colt and unborn foal. That really doesn't help us breeders who are trying to sell registered stock for decent prices.
 
The market is certainly tough right now. I feel for all the unwanted minis out there. I cringe when I hear people say "at least I'm not paying for its housing anymore" or something like that. My thought is if you can't afford to feed/care/vet all the animals you have on your farm for the rest of their lives, you shouldn't have ever bought/bred them. Every animal we as humans take charge of should be a lifelong commitment. And if the right circumstances come along and new home is found for the animal, then great. But I think it should be planned for as if you will ALWAYS have the animal and be responsible for it financially. Ok, off my soapbox on that issue.

Back to the market, I do believe over population is a huge contributor to the issue, but more specifically, over population of lessor quality horses. I see SO many ads for minis where the owner wants a "show home" and I look at the horse and think there is NO way that horse will survive in any show ring. So, do they just not know? Do they think if they advertise a horse as a show prospect, maybe an uninformed newbie will come along and think "show horse; great price; let's buy!" We all need to treat "newbies" with care and guide them. Not take advantage of them. New people are a huge factor in the breed surviving this horrible downturn. If we mislead them, they will eventually figure it out and certainly never purchase from the same farm again, but worse, may get out of minis all together. If we help them, they may become life-long enthusiasts. And that outcome benefits us all.

As for pricing, yes, it's tough right now. And the old saying "quality still sells" is true...but for less these days. There are horses still selling for thousands, but they may go for $4500 today, but would have gone for $10,000 a few years ago. So even the high dollar horses are more reasonable right now. But lesser quality and/or pet horses don't bring much of anything. And yes, I have a few sitting at my farm. And what are they doing??? Eating hay, eating grain, using up wormer, being vaccinated, getting their teeth floated, and just generally hanging out. It's my responsibility to do all those things forever, or until a suitable home comes along. So, whereas I bred 4 or 5 mares per year in past years (I believe 8 was my personal "high"), I now breed for 0 or 1 foal per year. Because I have to plan to keep that foal should it not sell. Simple responsibility + simple math.

Another soapbox and then I'm done.... I know that many feel the "backyard" breeder is the bane of our existence, but I think the "well-known" (which to mean can simply mean well advertised) breeder that is still breeding 20, 30, 40 or 80 mares per year is the real problem. A) they should care more about the breed (as a whole) that has made them thousands and thousands of dollars over the years; B) they should understand their market enough to know it's over populated and C) they know many of those foals aren't going to sell BEFORE they breed the mare...so what is the POINT??? I just don't get it. Makes ZERO economic sense. The dollars and cents just don't add up. For the life of me I can't figure this one out. And there are still SEVERAL farms doing it. Some are (were really, not so much present tense) known for quality, others have always been known to have average horses at best, but breed for close to a hundred per year. I would love for one of them to come on here and explain the money side of that thinking.

Ok, one last note... If you are selling a horse for $500 (which I've done, so not condeming) you have to be extra careful about where it goes. Many less scrupulous buyers feel if they are only paying a few hundred bucks, we as sellers have no right to ask questions, ask for references, etc. But we do! They are OUR animals! So be careful and keep your horses' well being in mind. It's a tough road and it all looks uphill at the moment, but it's all about the slow and steady course.

Thanks for letting me rant!lol
 
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Very well said Parm!

I don't understand the reasoning either why these breeders have to breed 20-30 plus foals every year. I agree they have nice horses, they throw nice foals, not all of those foals are going to be nice but pedigree sells, advertisement helps, and it helps that you can afford to do it but IMO if you need to have auctions or huge sales every year to make room for next years foals somethings not right. Its called supply and demand. If you feel your foals are worth money then breed less and it will make those foals more valuable.

Breeders need to breed for quality not quantity and not for breeding purposes as we will always have plenty of horses to use for breeding but show purposes. Its hard to find a nice show quality horse these days, IMHO. They are out there but far more being advertised as show horses are just not show quality. Performance is going up, people are also more interested in CDE, these minis are more then just breeding machines and we need to promote them as such. Promotion is the key to bring in new members. We need to make people feel that papered horses are worth their value and not go to some backyard breeder to get one for real cheap. We can't keep selling these minis at ridiculous low prices, its not going to help the market at all.
 
I wonder if the registries could step in and play a part by encouraging breeders and new colt owners to geld. The Miniature Donkey Association has been doing a lot along those lines with rebates to owners who geld and also financial help to those who need help with their vet fees. The AKC has limited registration to encourage people not to breed. I know there is the Super Gelding program now which is fantastic but there also needs to be some kind of encouragement to geld for owners of colts who have no intention of showing.
 
I have noticed that folks around here wanting a pet will buy a cheap colt and keep it until it becomes a stallion...then realize..hes not cute and calm anymore...then its on craigslist for $100. I am thinking of gelding all my colts within a timeframe.i figured id offer the best as colts,if not sold by 8 months,i would geld,and try to sell them.if they dont sell,then ill have some driving training to do later!! Lol...i have bred for fall 2012 & next year already,but if I cant sell the excess I am prepared to keep them,or give then to a few friends that would provide great care with a contract,but cant afford to buy a quality mini..im sure their children would love to show or even .have a pet. I do feel that more colts need to be gelded before sold,and I feel that breeders who breed 80 mares A year are hurting the breed...there is one in particular in nc that does this and offers his $800_$3500 based on color. I believe thats whats happened to the foal market here to tell the truth.i have had many potential customers visit there first to look at 10 foals,before coming to see my 2....of course they like to be able to choose,but im not going to breed that many..lol
 
mini horse mania--I dropped you a pm.

As far as the market, as an outsider (newbie to minis) looking in, I CAN say that all the issues I see here are the same in Arabians. Large quantity breeders (started to say big name, but someone else mentioned deteriorating quality) flooding the market without regard to, well, ANYTHING we can see....backyard breeders with their oopsies or "micro-minis" (replace with dwarf) that are sold to impulse breeders that don't research..and most importantly a tough economy with a flat market industry wide.

As mini breeders though, that could give us a marketing advantage. Focus on the performance opportunities, educate the community as to costs--and some of the advantages with miniatures--and we could carve out things. Education is the most important, in my opinion. Folks need to understand the commitment (and around the Ft. Bragg-the army base here where many animals are "last minute give-aways" due to lack of prior planning) that any animal requires. Partnering with 4-H groups, local show venues, local animal care professionals, and handing out those brochures wherever you can helps with that education. Once folks truly understand--and accept--the requirements and responsibilities, we have new folks hooked into our minis, and can create a better market. (At least that's what I'm shooting for 'round here!!).....Julie
 

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