LWO positive stallions

[Ojai Minis]

As for underreporting them...those 25% statistics are stats based on the way matching of genes works...not how many are reported. So even if only 5% are reported, we can safely and quite accurately say that 25% of resulting foals from LWO to LWO results in a live foal at birth that soon thereafter dies to to an incomplete intestine making it impossible for him to pass feces.

I agree!!!!!!

Liz

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

As for underreporting them...those 25% statistics are stats based on the way matching of genes works...not how many are reported. So even if only 5% are reported, we can safely and quite accurately say that 25% of resulting foals from LWO to LWO results in a live foal at birth that soon thereafter dies to to an incomplete intestine making it impossible for him to pass feces.

Uhm... no? That's what I'm trying to say, that underreporting does NOT account for all the "missing" numbers. We can not assume that 25% are born, since there is no evidence of that! The evidence says that around 10% are born alive, and the other 15% are not. Since apparently you have no interest in hearing what I'm trying to say, I'll stop. It was just an interesting educational point anyways, doesn't really matter.

 

[mmmorgans]

Personally - I wouldn't want one in my breeding program. That is just my opinion for what it is worth.

 

[RJRMINIS]

I am really excited, since he will not be my only stallion, it works to test a few mares at a time, that I plan to breed to him, eventually I will have all my mares tested, better to be safe than sorry! Since he will be 2 this spring, he will only be bred to 2 possibly 3 mares. which will all be tested before-hand.

I appreciate all the responses... I do believe that there are cases that are not reported....Or uniformed people that may have had one and never even knew it was lethal white, and just figured it died for other reasons.

I knew of LWO when I raised big horses(paints & Qtrs)....but truthfully never thought about it in the miniatures, Until I joined Lil beginnings........and it makes sense.

I also have informed others that have stallions that I think should be tested, they have no internet and had never heard of it.....

So it is so much better if you are going to purchase one or learn you do have a positive stallion, to be prepared and test your mares.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Definately some really good plans there

By the way, you STILL haven't posted any pictures of the boy! I love overo paints... I can't wait to see him!

 

[Mona]

Uhm... no? That's what I'm trying to say, that underreporting does NOT account for all the "missing" numbers. We can not assume that 25% are born, since there is no evidence of that! The evidence says that around 10% are born alive, and the other 15% are not. Since apparently you have no interest in hearing what I'm trying to say, I'll stop. It was just an interesting educational point anyways, doesn't really matter.

These are NOT assumptions. There have been studies done for many, many years. I don't know why you say I am not interested in hearing what you have to say??? If I was not interested, I would not be reading and responding to your posts. I AM interested, but I can also disagree, due to the materials and findings that I have read about in regards to this subject over the years. I am VERY INTERESTED where you get this proof of that the numbers are different, due to (proven) statistics done. There should be reports of these statistics published somewhere, after necropsies/dna samples were performed on the fetuses? If not, there cannot possibly be proof that it is in fact happening, and if it is, I would love for you to share those facts with us. I am always learning, and I learn most by researching and reading, but as I said, I have not yet ever heard anything like that. So yes, PLEASE do share. I am sure there are many here, and in other breeds that carry the overo pattern that would love to learn of this new discovery also.

 

[Ojai Minis]

Uhm... no? That's what I'm trying to say, that underreporting does NOT account for all the "missing" numbers. We can not assume that 25% are born, since there is no evidence of that! The evidence says that around 10% are born alive, and the other 15% are not. Since apparently you have no interest in hearing what I'm trying to say, I'll stop. It was just an interesting educational point anyways, doesn't really matter.

These are NOT assumptions. There have been studies done for many, many years. I don't know why you say I am not interested in hearing what you have to say??? If I was not interested, I would not be reading and responding to your posts. I AM interested, but I can also disagree, due to the materials and findings that I have read about in regards to this subject over the years. I am VERY INTERESTED where you get this proof of that the numbers are different, due to (proven) statistics done. There should be reports of these statistics published somewhere, after necropsies/dna samples were performed on the fetuses? If not, there cannot possibly be proof that it is in fact happening, and if it is, I would love for you to share those facts with us. I am always learning, and I learn most by researching and reading, but as I said, I have not yet ever heard anything like that. So yes, PLEASE do share. I am sure there are many here, and in other breeds that carry the overo pattern that would love to learn of this new discovery also.

I too am VERY interested in learning, thus the reason I keep reading and responding

So please keep sharing.

Liz

 

[Minimor]

I'd also point out that the 25% possibility means that each foal of that particular mating has a 1 in 4 chance of being lethal white. It doesn't mean that one out of 4 foals is going to be lethal white. Just as a palomino has a 50% of passing on the dilute gene, it doesn't guarantee that 50% of foals will be dilute.

Perhaps "on average" breeders that are breeding LWO+ to LWO+ get only 12% lethal white foals. It's very possible, though, that somewhere out there is a breeder that has tried this same mating of two LWO+ horses and come up with a lethal white foal 3 out of 4 times. 75%.

This is the first time I've heard anyone suggest that lethal white foals have a high incidence of early embryonic death and frankly I don't put much stock in that theory. Everything I have read & heard does not lend credence to that theory. If the actual possibility of a lethal white foal appears to be "only" 12% of all LWO+ to LWO+ matings, I believe that: 1) it's just the luck of averages. You get 12% for 5 years running, but in year 6 your luck might fail & you get 50% lethal white 2) 12% is still much too high. It's not worth risking even 1% of foals over something that is entirely preventable.

Yes, if I were using a LWO carrier as a breeding stallion, I would test each & every mare before I bred them to him. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

As far as other breeds, this paper details a lethal white foal born to two registered QH parents.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...bmedid=12240532

Also, try looking for "Overo lethal white foal syndrome: equine model of aganglionic megacolon (Hirschsprung disease)", by McCabe and Griffin, and "Incidence of the endothelin receptor B mutation that causes lethal white foal syndrome in white-patterned horses", by Santschi and Vrotsos. Those two papers have a lot of information on the topic. Most of the information I was given was from a theriogenologist (PhD, DVM) with several decades of experience. I don't have references for his information.

 

[normajeanbaker]

Alright color/overo people, would YOU have this mare tested for the LWO gene if she was yours? I have no intentions of breeding her again for awhile, as I want to concentrate on on showing her...but, her sire is Liver Chestnut(Westwind Desperado) and her dam(Bertrands Sassafrass) was a "sorrel and white splashed belly Overo". Her filly she gave me last year came out a dark silver bay with a blue eye and was by a solid stallion...the filly is pictured in my avatar. Here is my mare pictured below...she has 1 partial blue eye and ya got me on what color she is!!!

Just curious what the knowledgable color people out there think!!

~Jen~

 

[Dona]

Alright color/overo people, would YOU have this mare tested for the LWO gene if she was yours? I have no intentions of breeding her again for awhile, as I want to concentrate on on showing her...but, her sire is Liver Chestnut(Westwind Desperado) and her dam(Bertrands Sassafrass) was a "sorrel and white splashed belly Overo". Her filly she gave me last year came out a dark silver bay with a blue eye and was by a solid stallion...the filly is pictured in my avatar. Here is my mare pictured below...she has 1 partial blue eye and ya got me on what color she is!!!

Just curious what the knowledgable color people out there think!!

~Jen~

Well...I'm going on the assumption that the sire of this mare is the correct one. She almost appears to be a true Gray gone white. But that can't be if the colors of the sire & dam are correct. The next possibility is that the mare is carrying a dilution gene...but has black skin. So, she could be a very light Palomino (Isabella). And Palominos usually clip out to almost white. Her "Liver Chestnut" sire...could actually be a Smokey Black & carry the cream gene. Do you know what colors are behind her sire? I thought that she could also be a Max White Sabino...but she would have pink skin except maybe on her ears if she were that. She is so light in the photos that it is hard to tell if she has pinto markings. BUT...she does have white on her face & at least one white hoof that I can tell...so she is at least a "genetic" pinto. ANY pinto (or horse with white markings) should be tested for LWO in my opinion...if you ever plan on breeding to a horse who carries LWO.

:

 

[Ashley]

We have a LWO stallion. HE isnt very loud. This year was his first foal crop, he gave us 2 loud frame overo colts, of coarse both out of mares we sold. 2 minimal Frame fillies, 2 solids, and a wild trovero. We should have one more comeing from him yet this year. HEre is a few of what he gave us this year.

 

[joylee123]

nathan

could you be confusing lethal roan?? lethal roan does cause early term absorptions. I have never heard that of lethal white. that is why its so heartbreaking. because they carry the foal full term only to have it die

I can't say I've ever heard of lethal roan...

It's sort of like LWO but in the case of lethal roan, it affects the pregnancy early term(as you have described for the LWO) and the mare absobs or aborts the fetus, so the foal is lost in pregnancy, and not born alive to die later.

I am not 100% positive, but I think the lethal roan is still not 100% proven. Some say yes, some say no.

I have always been told over the years that you shouldn't breed true roan to true roan.... Can someone expand on this?

nathan

could you be confusing lethal roan?? lethal roan does cause early term absorptions. I have never heard that of lethal white. that is why its so heartbreaking. because they carry the foal full term only to have it die

I can't say I've ever heard of lethal roan...

It's sort of like LWO but in the case of lethal roan, it affects the pregnancy early term(as you have described for the LWO) and the mare absobs or aborts the fetus, so the foal is lost in pregnancy, and not born alive to die later.

I am not 100% positive, but I think the lethal roan is still not 100% proven. Some say yes, some say no.

I have always been told over the years that you shouldn't breed true roan to true roan.... Can someone expand on this?

 

[Songcatcher]

I have always been told over the years that you shouldn't breed true roan to true roan.... Can someone expand on this?

Roans in the homozygous form are widely believed to contribute to absorption and miscarriages, an occurrence known as Lethal Roan.

 

[Arne]

Hey, :saludando:

Was just reading all of the posts and thought I might add a little to it. A foal that is Homozygous for LWO gene will die of complications from intestinal tract abnormalities (aganglionosis) within 48 hours of birth.

I don't believe there is any scientific data indicating that a higher percentage of foals with LWO are lost prior to birth.

Thus far this year alone, we have confirmed for people 17 LWO foals. We were shocked by the amount of of individuals requesting confirmation. We try to explain the risks to everyone and offer information about it on our site.

Hope this helps,

Thanks

Arne

 

[Mona]

Hey, :saludando:

Was just reading all of the posts and thought I might add a little to it. A foal that is Homozygous for LWO gene will die of complications from intestinal tract abnormalities (aganglionosis) within 48 hours of birth.

I don't believe there is any scientific data indicating that a higher percentage of foals with LWO are lost prior to birth.

Thus far this year alone, we have confirmed for people 17 LWO foals. We were shocked by the amount of of individuals requesting confirmation. We try to explain the risks to everyone and offer information about it on our site.

Hope this helps,

Thanks

Arne

Thanks for your input Arne!! :aktion033: