Looking to add...

[midnight star stables]

I've been wanting to add a type of hay cube/chunk to my horses' diets for a while now, but I tell you, it isn't easy choosing! I have my final three choices picked out and I was wondering if which one you prefer?

The reason behind wanting to add a roughage based feed is not to take away anything from my current diet but rather just add a little more to it. I like to practice halter with a chunk style feed, so a hay based feed would be ideal for that. I also just think it be a good way to add to my picky eaters, weanlings and seniors' current diet.

Quality, digestibility and hind gut health are my top priorities along with not mixing up their current individual complete feed diets too much.

Roughage Chunks

"Roughage Chunks is a fortified horse feed with built-in-roughage formulated to meet the nutritional requirements of the inactive to mildly active horse. Roughage Chunks can replace part of the daily hay ration for performance horses and all of the daily hay ration for senior horses with little to no teeth. The calories in Roughage Chunks are derived predominantly from fibre. Contains Purina Yeast Culture."

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein.................min. ................ 12.5%

Crude Fat.....................min. ................ 1.5%

Crude Fibre.................. max.................. 25.0%

Sodium (Na)..................actual................ 0.4%

Calcium (Ca).................actual................ 0.8%

Phosphorus (P)...............actual................ 0.45%

Horse Hay Extender

"Horse Hay Extender is a partial hay replacer. This horse product can replace 50% of the hay normally fed to an individual horse when hay is short or of inferior quality. It can replace all the daily hay ration for senior horses with little to no teeth. The calories in Horse Hay Extender are coming predominantly from fibre."

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein ................ min. ............... 12.0%

Crude Fat....................... min. ............. 2.0%

Crude Fibre....................max................. 30.0%

Calcium.........................actual............. 0.8%

Phosphorus (P).............actual.................. 0.35%

Hi Fat Hi Fibre

"Hi Fat Hi Fibre is a horse feed designed to meet the nutrient requirements of performance horses, breeding horses, and horses that tie-up or get "hot" of grain. Calories are coming predominantly from fat and fibre. Hi Fat Hi Fibre is ideal for horses that have problem with starch (grain) based feeds. Contains Purina Yeast Culture."

Crude Protein ................ min................. 13.0%

Crude Fat..................... min................. 6.0%

Crude Fibre....................max................. 25.0%

Sodium (Na)................. actual................ 0.45%

Calcium.....................actual................. 0.85%

Phosphorus (P)................actual............... 0.55%

Of the three, the Roughage Chunks and Hi Fat Hi Fibre both appear to be "complete feeds" whereas the Horse Hay Extender appears to be just that - a partial hay replacer. Should I just go with the partial hay replacer if that is all I am really looking for? I find it hard to turn away the yeast that "increases digestibility, regulates microbes in hind-gut and utilization of nutrients, resulting in increased energy and protein utilization" of the Roughage Chunks; and the features of the Hi Fat Hi Fibre that "Promote healthy hooves and coat, increased athletic performance, body condition and appearance" among other things.

So thoughts?

 

[targetsmom]

Just my 2 cents, but if you want something for picky eaters - and depending on what type of hay you feed - I would suggest alfalfa cubes, fed soaked. I fed them to Max for help with his ulcers (high in CA like Tums) and am now giving them to any that need extra weight or lack appetite. I also give soaked alfalfa cubes at bedtime to everyone, partly because they love them and also figure it will buffer the stomach for the long stretch overnight with no food. If you like the idea of yeast culture, add probiotics.

 

[midnight star stables]

Hi Mary

Thanks for your thoughts! Don't ask me why, but my minis (with the exception of trying the weanlings/yearling) will not eat hay cubes. I did try my two main show horses, Joy and Nitro and my now since passed senior pair, Midnight and Billy on two different types, both dried and soaked and they wouldn't touch it. I added to their grain and they just refused to eat their normal grain (or when fed dry, they ate around them). I'm not sure why they refuse to eat it, as they do eat beet pulp soaked. Our big horses here will eat them, just not the minis. That said, I know they do eat hay chunks which is why I started looking at them.

As for probiotics, I have used them in the past also however I have found them to be extremely expensive... It's been ages since I last used them but they were around $84 for a month or two supply for one horse, or something similar to that. I am tight on money at the moment due to recent vet/farrier bills that I really don't want to buy "extras" if I can help it. I'll never deny my horses something that they need, but I don't consider probiotics a "need". Am I wrong in my thinking? I have tried yogurt in the past too, and maybe that is something I could try again, but I had only used it when I had a problem with a horse.

The yeast in the chunks was nice as it was just already there, and not something that would hurt the horses to have. Anyways Thank you! Next time I get to the feed store, I'll be sure to ask about the probiotics again and will have a look at them. There are a couple of other "extras"(respiratory, joint, immune, etc.) that I'd like to add to my program too, so I'll try to save up for them too.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

You guys up north sure have some interesting products.

IMO I would stay away from the Hi Fat Hi. Its for horses that just don't do well on high grains and has alot of fat in it. Unless your horses need that extra fat I would look for something else. With the Roughage Chunks you'll just be feeding 2 different feeds mixed together if you are going to still continue to feed your grain but I find it a better choice than the Hi Fat. If it was me I would feed the hay extender. I have given my horses alfalfa/timothy cubes all year for my show horses, never soaked them and they went alot just fine. This is what I fed mine.

Standlee Hay Company Alfalfa/Timothy Mini Cubes

 

[chandab]

I have given my horses alfalfa/timothy cubes all year for my show horses, never soaked them and they went alot just fine. This is what I fed mine.

Standlee Hay Company Alfalfa/Timothy Mini Cubes

These mini cubes just became available in my area (well my closest TSC, which is 150 miles). I bought one bag to try, as in the past my horses have turned their noses up at all cubes, they love these mini cubes. I hope to be able to get more, but I don't often get to TSC.

 

[targetsmom]

Maybe I have just been lucky, but ALL of our minis AND the big horse love the alfalfa cubes when soaked. Maybe because they don't get alfalfa hay??? It has worked out well because when Max wouldn't eat his grain he would still eat the cubes, and same with Ruby. And my older big horses is starting to lose weight so I just started feeding him soaked cubes and HE loves them. Now I do have one yearling that seems to be able to take them or leave them, but most of them really like them.

Try Dover or some other catalog or on-line source for pro-biotics. I thought they were pretty reasonable, unlike joint supplements which are very pricey.

ETA: the difference between MT and New England - I have two different Tractor Supply stores within 15 minutes of me - one east and one west over the line in MA.

 

[Minimor]

Our Minis generally do not eat the alfalfa or alfalfa/timothy cubes well either. Some won't eat them at all, dry or soaked, some will eat a little but really not enough to make it worthwhile.

I have to ask--why do you want to add feed chunks to your horses' diet? I can see buying the hay extender (or really any of them) if hay is scarce and you need something to make up for the hay you cannot get. Do you feed hay, or just complete feed pellets?

 

[midnight star stables]

Our Minis generally do not eat the alfalfa or alfalfa/timothy cubes well either. Some won't eat them at all, dry or soaked, some will eat a little but really not enough to make it worthwhile.

I have to ask--why do you want to add feed chunks to your horses' diet? I can see buying the hay extender (or really any of them) if hay is scarce and you need something to make up for the hay you cannot get. Do you feed hay, or just complete feed pellets?

Not sure if this last post was directed to me or not, but I'll answer it anyways.

Almost every horse has a different grain diet, but really almost every horse I own has a different need. All my horses do get hay three times a day and pasture time daily. They each get about 2-3 flakes a day, and my mare and foal get about 4 flakes. I'll have to weigh it tonight to give you a more accurate amount, but basically I don't "limit" or try to cut hay from my horses' diet, but just maintain a healthy weight.

We feed a 1st cut timothy hay, with a little alfalfa and orchard grass. My step-dad, (who buys the hay) will fight me tooth and nail over this, but I feel that the hay is more coarse than I like. I'd like to move to a 2nd cut grass only hay, but I can't seem to make that work.

So that said, I think some added fiber would be good for their diets. I'm not looking to cut any hay from their diets but preferably enhance the roughage quality I can offer them.

And last but not least, I have a number of halter horses and I "practice/train" with chunked feed. What we have now that I use is not ideal with what it offers nutritionally (with 16% protein, 4% fat and 9% fiber) - any time I feed this as a treat or training tool, I throw my feed programs out of whack.

So roughage chunks are something I would like to add to my barn.

JMS Miniatures, Why do you see fat as a bad thing? We feed some amount of High-Fat High-Fiber to all our horses, and also use BOSS. Fat, depending on the source, is important for energy, hair coats, healthy hooves and overall general health - Just as healthy fat is important for humans too. Interested in your thoughts.

Then, try Purina Natures Essentials Free Balance 12:12 if you think they might be lacking something. It's about $25 per container and lasts a long time, since you only use 1 little scoop a day.

Thanks Diane, I just wanted to add that my Purina is different than yours, and I can not get the feed you listed. I do feed a similar "multi-vitamin" that out Purina makes. I'd like to think my horses aren't missing anything, I try to keep on top of everything. I have so many different needs with my horses, I tell you, it is an art though.

Well this thread has given me much food for thought. Since I already own a High-Fat High-Fiber feed (just in pelleted form), I will scratch that from the list. The two feed mills I go to don't offer alfalfa cubes, but rather basic hay cubes. I will ask if one can order in a small bag of alfalfa or timothy cubes and try them out again. I'm looking over the options but leaning towards the first option. I don't think I'd be wanting to add more that 1-2 cups to any given horse anyway, so it might be the best option.

Again, thank you all for your help!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The one thing I would say to be wary of is that Purina do not list their ingredients- so you really do not have any way of knowing exactly where the protein listed is coming form, and where the roughage listed is coming form.

I am making no accusations here, but we had this problem a few years back and it turned out....well, not so well, anyway, and the result is that it is now a legal requirement that all animal products have a full list of ingredients on them- I thought you had that requirement too, but maybe not??

Just something to consider.

 

[midnight star stables]

The one thing I would say to be wary of is that Purina do not list their ingredients- so you really do not have any way of knowing exactly where the protein listed is coming form, and where the roughage listed is coming form.

I am making no accusations here, but we had this problem a few years back and it turned out....well, not so well, anyway, and the result is that it is now a legal requirement that all animal products have a full list of ingredients on them- I thought you had that requirement too, but maybe not??

Just something to consider.

Hmm, I find it interesting that you mentioned this. I used to use Purina as my only feed company. I normally have weanling/yearlings, driving show horses (both old and young), seniors and nearly everything in between, so I always have a variety of types of grains on stock. I never found my young horses looked great on their feed, no matter how I fed or supplemented. I changed the young horses to a company called Masterfeeds and the young horses all looked and acted better. Same with some of our senior horses. One of my driving horses now seems to be loosing stamina, so I've been trying different things with her, starting with moving her to a Masterfeeds brand too. If it were only me in the feed room, I think I'd do away with Purina altogether. I don't know everything about the grains I feed, but I do know my horses very well. Masterfeeds carries a Roughage cube that I was looking at right before you posted. I might end up going with that. It offers less fiber, but at-least I know where it comes from...

Again, thank you for all your thoughts. I'm having fun reviewing my feeds and looking at making changes.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I'm not saying fat is a bad thing, but you have to watch how much fat these minis are given so they don't get to heavy. Thats why I said unless your minis need it I would find something else. I've had easy keepers, and I've had hard keepers, my hard keepers sure have a higher fattening feed but my easy keepers of course do not. I always had to be careful with my easy keepers how much and what kind of food they get.

I wanted to comment on the last post about Purina. IMO Purina is not the best feed, really truly isn't. But I do feed the mini/pony feed because my horses do well on it. The best feeds out there IMO are made by Kent or feeds made by ADM. My real easy keeper looked great on ADM, but it was too much for him he was still too fat.

This is him 4 months on the mini feed and you can certaintly see his condition looks good but his color is very dull.

Any other difference as far as energy goes between the 2 feeds no. I honestly wish I could continue to feed the ADM feeds or Kent but those feeds just did not handle my easy keepers well. I will continue to feed the mini/pony feed by purina unless I see a drastic change like I did see last time with the other mini/pony feed by farnam. That feed made one of mine have a really dull coat, not like the one above, lethargic, and anemic. Once I got him off of that food he was fine. I hope the feed by Purina will continue to do well, but unfortuantly its not a locked formula.

 

[copperwood farm]

I will add my 2 cents worth because Ilive relatively close to you.......

I feed the Purina grain, the integrit-i pellet ( fat and fibre pellet) is great. I woud feed the roughage chunk,either Purina or Masterfeed, depending on your feed mill. As far as the alfalfa chunk, I am pretty sure that North York Farmer sells alfalfa pellets, if thats what you decide to feed. As for the yeast, you could top dress with brewers yeast, which should accomplish the same thing. You can get it in bulk from the feed mill.

 

[mizbeth]

Why don't you try adding to your current feed, shredded (with molasses) wet beet pulp? I have not found a horse that will not eat that, unless they are too sick to eat. Most will at least drink the soupy part of it.

 

[midnight star stables]

I will add my 2 cents worth because Ilive relatively close to you.......

I feed the Purina grain, the integrit-i pellet ( fat and fibre pellet) is great. I woud feed the roughage chunk,either Purina or Masterfeed, depending on your feed mill. As far as the alfalfa chunk, I am pretty sure that North York Farmer sells alfalfa pellets, if thats what you decide to feed. As for the yeast, you could top dress with brewers yeast, which should accomplish the same thing. You can get it in bulk from the feed mill.

Hi there, Thanks for the ideas! I currently also feed the Integrit-i to most of my horses, even if it is only a little to some. The one picky eater, who would benefit the most from the Integrit-i, won't eat it... but she'll get anything in chunk form. I'd like to also get Hi Fat Hi Fiber chunks for her, but I think my parents would shoot me! They like feeding to be simple, where as I like to play with amounts and types and top dressings. Because my minis all have so many different needs, I really do try to customize each feeding program to each horse. And they do look good for the most part

I'd like to avoid pellets if I can, as I was looking to add a chunk feed that would slow down eating time and could be utilized as a treat/reward when working with my horses in hand. I will consider asking about it though, next time I'm at North York. I'll also ask about all their general hay cubes/chunks/pellets and their values. Brewers yeast is not something that I have heard of. I'll have to look into it. Thank you for all your thought!

On an FYI, you must be pretty local to me? Just so you know, you are welcome visit if you are ever in the area.

Why don't you try adding to your current feed, shredded (with molasses) wet beet pulp? I have not found a horse that will not eat that, unless they are too sick to eat. Most will at least drink the soupy part of it.

Thank you for the idea, and I guess I really didn't mention it, but all of our horses get beet pulp. Of course it depends on the horse and their needs, but they get anywhere from 2 lbs to 8 lbs of soaked beet pulp daily. Thanks though - great minds think alike?

 

[copperwood farm]

Thnaks very much for the invite............I am just outside of Stouffville, so not far, and the invite goes both ways.

Remember if you feed the integrit i pellets they have to be soaked, or at least add water before feeding, unlike the FF chunks and the "old pellet" formula, they have way more fibre,