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Michelle@wescofarms

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I appreciate the need to lock some topics, and bottom line the mods and Mary Lou need to do what's best for the Forum, but I don't get the sudden need to get so many locked/deleted so often.

I haven't seen anything controversial . . . I guess it's time to go back to lurker mode for awhile.
 

Vertical Limit

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Michelle, when the Original Poster asks for a topic to be locked or deleted we lock it or delete it. It is the same courtesy we would give to you or anyone else. If you read the pinned topic that Mary Lou has on top of the board it will explain these things. It's certainly not our doing. We are just trying to be accommodating.
 
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horsehug

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Okay never mind. And thanks for the explanation.

Susan O.
 
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bingo

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I completely understand why those topics were locked. It was easy to see it had the potential to get ugly and I understand why the OP asked for it to happen.

ML and gang I appreciate what you do and the fact that you do what is best for the board without any personal agenda getting in the way!
 

susanne

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I, too, find it annoying when a thread is locked, but I do understand that if the OP requests that it be removed or locked, you have no choice.

Those making such requests really should think twice, however, as it tends to undermine their original purpose.

In this case, I very much support necessary scientific research -- I'd be dead if they hadn't done it to discover insulin.

However, with a request for a live subject, it is only right to ask questions, and in no way calls into question the importance of the research.

I suspect a few were uncomfortable that someone of John's stature was questioned. I have great respect for the research he is undertaking, but if we are to act with the integrity our animals deserve, we MUST always ask questions, no matter who is involved.
 

horseplay

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I agree with what susanne posted and will add that I do not believe that anyone should follow blindly and not ask questions. Just because someone knows more about a subject it should never be assumed that we the "commoners" will not understand. The world is full of "messes" because people didn't ask questions. I do not care about someones perceived stature. No one is too good to be questioned.
 

rabbitsfizz

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In this case, taking John's integrity as a given, any questions...genuine questions, should have been asked in private, as any prospective donor would do, not in public and provocatively.

That was my problem with what was going on.

People who had no intention whatsoever of helping the research asking questions and making judgements designed, it seemed, to be provocative.

Very, very sad.

Especially considering how essential this research is, and the fact that John is the only one doing it in a breed that is rife with the problem!!

I would have thought it would have been in everyone's interests to help him in any way that we could, and, if relevant, to make private enquiries about welfare issues and worries.
 

Jill

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I personally understand why the thread we're talking about was locked and some posts to it removed. My opinion has nothing to do with "who" John is.

There's already been a thread where the why of the issue was discussed and many participated in the discussion (if that thread's still here, I don't know but it was here and quite long). The current thread was to show the different types of dwarfs and provide the tools to identify the type of dwarf that is needed.

We all know some threads drift but when the point of the thread was something very specific and targeted and the drifting totally defeats the OP's intention in starting the thread -- I understand why it should be locked and posts removed.

That's my view on the case in point.
 
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OhHorsePee

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Oh! Well, without knowing there were posts removed if you read it as it is one would wonder why is was locked. I can see why Michelle would ask as I too wondered not seeing the removed posts.
 

susanne

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I was responding to the posts that I saw -- obviously -- not those that were deleted. The questions that I saw appeared genuine and not inflammatory.

As I said before, I have great respect for John and fully understand the importance of what he is doing. That doesn't mean I won't ask questions.

I've always asked questions and always will.
 

Minimor

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I have to point out that there is a way to ask questions in a nice way, and there is a way to ask questions in a rude way. I suspect that there was no problem with the nicely asked questioned, it was the rudely expressed ones that was the issue on here--and yes, I did see some of what was deleted before it was gone (and missed some too, but it was obvious that something had been deleted, since a reply was directed at someone/a post that was no longer there in at least one instance. And yes, there was a considerable amount of rudeness/hostility coming across in certain posts!
 

Maxi'sMinis

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Just my opinion, no flames please. I understand that a lot of us wouldn't be here today if it weren't for research. I work for an organization that tests biologics, all the vaccines that as a child you were vaccinated with, polio, mumps, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, influenza and many more. Of course there are always the people that ask questions, there should be. If there weren't who would have started the research in the first place? They asked questions, like what if there was a way to prevent people and animals from dying from these infectious diseases. There are also the people that are going to berate the GOOD people that are trying to solve these serious issues especially when it involves the loss of life to accomplish this goal, they don't understand the use of animals for research and never will. It was right in deleting the inflammatory posts as well as locking the thread. I do think the question of how many will it take to potentially make a determination was a valid question. That is called protocol, all animal research is governed by a protocol and the Animal Welfare Association. For research to be valid it must have specific parameters. A request to find dwarf minis for this research is valid but could have also provided more information in regards to the study so that people would understand right off the bat what is needed, what will happen to the animal etc. I questioned in my mind the same thing but at the same time understood the value that this research could provide. The last time I was at an auction a precious dwarf mini came up, the front legs were such that I knew this animal could never lead a normal life and it also looked to be in serious pain, I started crying right then and couldn't look at the animal. I felt disgust for the people that were selling it. So to potentially prevent a little life like this from happening I can only say yes to research.

Of course before I would hand over my pet or an animal I would have needed more questions answered than was provided on the original post and that could have been done by PM.

It would be good when a thread is edited if a post be added by the Mod to state that posts have been removed or edited. This way people reading the thread after it has been altered would know something is missing.

Is there anyway a post could be added when an entire thread has been deleted so we know the thread is gone and we don't look and look for it?
 

Shortpig

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My opinion is no one is so great or so perfect that everyone should just follow the Ram so to speak. Even the president of our country is not beyond question. We don't need to be rude or attack a person but out of respect for the members of this forum I feel there is nothing wrong with showing interest or asking questions. I find there is a very large population on this board who are all intelligent and compassionate people. The fact that we all come from different backgrounds and have different skills makes this a very interesting and wonderful place to learn things we don't already know. If we don't ask questions we don't learn.

I am very much against the process of attacking or flaming someone. But when questions are asked that are not inflamatory and are being asked to learn more about a process "Why wouldn't someone answer them"?

When ever you have this many people sharing a forum you will have so many different personalities there is no way to avoid arguments. People will become angry and when they type it on their keyboard as everyone knows there is no way to show true emotion. Sometimes it requires the moderators to step in and put a stop to a very explosive situation. I understand that. Sometimes this requires locking a topic and sometimes it requires deleting a post. I do agree it would be nice if that deletion was followed by a note so everyone isn't walking around in a fog wondering why things don't make sense. I don't have that job so therefore I have no way of knowing how busy they are and how truly time consuming it is at times to control this forum. Only they know that. This is a job I wouldn't want because you can't please everyone all the time.
 

Michelle@wescofarms

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Sorry Mary Lou and mods if I came across as uber-brat about this. Just hit me the wrong way that day.

I wouldn't want your jobs - ugh - the thought of trying to keep any Forum running smoothly . . . well I wouldn't want to do it. As I don't know what was deleted or why it's often coming in at the end of something with little understanding as to why certain actions are taken people can wonder.

Someone asking for a horse to use in a study of course questions will be raised. Personal attacks should never be tolerated but questions sincerely asked in earnest should be debated and discussed even heatedly or passionately but respectfully. At least that is what I believe.

We all get educated daily here and thank goodness dwarfism isn't the red-head step-child it use to be, but there is still much that needs to be done in that direction. I'm sincerely thankful that John and others like him are doing research. Miniature horses are not cattle with the cattle industry $$ backing research, so any concrete, so positive steps made to hopefully one day erradicate dwarfism is fabulous.

The issue I did have was in the post regarding the dwarf photo's one person asked what was wrong with the one horse (photo of Shorty) as it looked - crap I don't remember her exact words but something to the effect 'normal' or like what she sees in many minis. To me that was a golden opportunity to do a bit of education, as unfortunately way to many people, especially those new to the breed, do not see the dwarf characteristics or are sold a bill of goods by some of the less honorable breeders out there. But the topic was locked and I doubt it will be opened on the dwarf forum.

Anyway, I do apologize for acting angrily on the Forum. I tend to just log off normally and should have that day too!
 

KanoasDestiny

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Hey Michelle, that was me who asked about Shorty on the other thread. No one ever answered my question and I assume that's because it was locked. But no PM's either.


I admit that I am not extremely knowledgable about conformation. I've had the priviledge to discuss it some with Lewella, and others, but I still get confused about some things. I could see some faults in Shorty, but then again, to me, he looks a lot like some of the mini mares that I see. I don't understand why he was considered a dwarf, when breeders chose to breed mares that resemble him (long back with shorter legs). To me they also look dwarfy? I was just looking for someone to maybe point out something I hadn't noticed on him.
 

Hosscrazy

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Just reiterating - quite often posts are locked or removed based on the request of the original poster.

Liz R.
 

Hunter

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One problem with locking although I understand the need to do it. Is now Johns posts are way back on page 3.

Being new to this forum I will very rarely post but thought this needed to be brought up to page 1. I think his

research is very important and the more people that can read what he is asking the more chances he will have

of receiving help with his requests.
 

Maxi'sMinis

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Hunter and Lisa I agree, the thread should be unlocked so this issue can be addressed. The offending posts have been deleted and hopefully the forum etiquette has been ingrained and we can carry on with this utmost important topic.
 
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Jill

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It looks like the thread is back so let's all chime in constructively!!! I think John's work is so important (and millions of miles over my own head).
 

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