Lice? Question re: ivermectrin zimecterin and other suggestions?

[suz]

I noticed my guy was itcing his butt on fences yesterday and also that his hair around his butt has started breaking off due to the itching. Wondering if it is lice or just dry skin? He has never had lice before, and I'm really hoping it's not this time, but I wanted to know what to do in the event it was.

I have read many posts here and alot of people say go ahead and worm with ivermectrin. This is the question that I have. I just dewormed him with Safeguard on the 1st and was wondering if it would be safe to worm him again but this time with the ivermectrin (zimecterin - not gold, just plain)?

Also use dust or liquid. Which should I get at Tractor Supply?

Any other suggestions I would appreciate. I want to be prepared as I board him and need to know what to do when I go out to the barn today to check him.

Also have read that a few sprays would help kill lice - Tri-Tec or Bronco. ANyone have any success using either of these?

Thanks alot!

 

[Barnmother]

I had a similar problem last spring and I used a powder and worked it through his long coat and I also wormed with ivermectin. I repeated in 10 days for both and volia the pesky little critters were gone.

PS edited to add that I treated every horse on the place not that they showed any symptoms but because it one has a problem assume everyone does.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Ivermectin does not get rid of lice. It is the cattle pour on that will get them, but you really should use it with extreme caution, if at all- it can burn the skin if the animal is sensitive. It also depends entirely on which sort of lice you are dealing with, and it sounds to me as if you are dealing with biting lice. If you get an Ivermectin dust and sprinkle this over the horse, specifically around the forelock, in a line down the back and then around the dock, this will kill the lice. Make sure you have a ring of powder around the neck, just below the head, and around the dock and anus- lice change sides every 24 hours (thus the line of powder down the back) and the drink form the eye and the anus.You will get them coming and going! Permethrin dust also works , but the wormer does not- if it did you can bet your boots they would be marketing it as such and charging for it!

 

[jandjmc]

I purchased 2 horses that came in from the mid-west last February. Both were covered in lice. If your horse has lice, make sure you quarantine him from other horses. I treated with a pyretheran(not sure how to spell) spray, the same ingredient that is in many fly sprays, got it at a local veterinary supply and put it on with a pump pressure sprayer, covering the entire body and rubbing in good while wearing rubber gloves. Then I re-applied 4 days later, it really did the trick. I also did de-worm with ivermectin but because they hadn't been wormed for a while. Lice are icky. Good luck!

 

[bevann]

If it is lice you will see small rice like things along the mane next to the skin.I have had great success even in very cold weather with very hairy horses using a dog product for fleas which comes in tubes which you cut off end and apply 1 tube to skin near mane from poll to end of mane and an other from base of mane along spine to head of tail.Get the size for large dogs 60 lbs up and ingredient must be premethrin(sp?) It usually only takes 1 treatment.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Permethrin, Bevann, but whose counting??

I never thought of using the spot on stuff- I'm going to try that in the spring, thanks!

 

[bevann]

I have had MAJOR issues here with lice and mites due to many birds especially barn swallows.They are pretty little birds but very nasty.Minis got lice from them(solved that with doggy product)Last year and year before I got a major dose of bites.Thought it was fleas(none on dogs)discovered it was bird mites from birds nesting over feed room area in my very old converted dairy barn.Many bites on me everywhere and I even carried them into the house onto my computer chair and sofa.Went online and got spray suggested to kill them.Took several sprayings but I finally got rid of the mites,.I can knock down a nest in the morning and by 3 PM they have built it back.Wish I could hire the barn swallows to work on the farm.They leave but they come back every year I have tried rubber owls, shiny wavy things etc.Nothing works except me with a long broom or rake on nest destruction.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

You can get rubber (or plastic) swallow nests that people that want to encourage them put up- if you got some of those and filled them with plaster and stuck them up the birds might be thwarted??

 

[sparklingjewelacres]

Well. I have to say that with our dog (heartworm med) that contains ivermectin and with our goats being given Ivermectin for an oral de-wormer; I truly believe it does help with controlling the lice in goats and the fleas on dogs. Ever since we have been de-worming the goats with Equamax, we have not had a lice or a mange issue come back. Our dog also has not had a flea problem. I have a flea problem to watch out for with the cat and we use frontline on her. I would think that giving the oral de-wormer could also help control lice in horses but if they already do have them, I think it is best to give a permethrin spray or dust powder and then hopefully with the ivermectin as a normal routine de-wormer, it will help keep the lice away.

 

[candycar]

Reguarding bird problems in the barn: I read in Grit magazine that if you slather a thick coat of vasaline or grease on the top of your beams (or where they nest) that will deter the birds from building nests. I would love to try it on the family farm barn, but the beams are too high up to reach!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Think about it for a minute- how can something you put into the digestive system affect the outside of the horse?

I am not sure where this "myth" started but it was not with the manufacturers of the wormer- they make NO such claims, none, ever! I have no idea why Vets persist in doing so.

My dogs have no fleas and they roam long grass all the time. They are not treated with anything as I do not believe in using chemicals unless I have to- so they are only wormed with Drontal (praziquantel) and Fenbendazole when I do the horses with it.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Think about it for a minute- how can something you put into the digestive system affect the outside of the horse?I am not sure where this "myth" started but it was not with the manufacturers of the wormer- they make NO such claims, none, ever! I have no idea why Vets persist in doing so.

There are 2 kinds of horse lice, a sucking louse and a biting louse.

The biting louse eats off of the surface of the skin and is not affected by systemic treatments. It must be treated with a topical, I prefer dairy louse powder, but many things can work.

Sucking louse drink blood and, therefore, are affected by systemic treatments. I prefer an avermectin dewormer, but again many things may work.

Generally I treat lice with dairy louse powder sprinkled from poll to rump (do not rub in or brush around) and deworm with an avermectin. Repeat both treatments in 2 weeks.

Dr. Taylor

 

[JustJuls]

Around our lil neck of the woods we use food grade DE. Diatomaceous Earth. Just make sure you don't inhale it.We used it on 30 head of Boer goats and bedding. Dogs and their pens.Chickens and the coop. Plus big and lil horses over the years.Always took care of lice fleas ticks for us.Wonderful stuff. A lot Boer goat breeders have used it for worming also with good results. I never got brave enough for that though.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I am aware of the different kinds of louse. I am also aware that the product being discussed does not have any effect on lice- if it did the manufacturers would be cashing in on the fact. In order to destroy either kind of louse you need to put the product on the outside of the horse, not the inside. If the internal wormer destroyed lice it is unlikely that cattle people would bother using the pour on- the injection apparently has limited use on sucking lice. I do not know where or when this myth started but it has been around for long enough that, were it to be grounded in truth, the manufacturers of the product would be encouraging it, which they are not. There have been extensive tests over her, but they have been by owners, not clinical tests, so I guess the facts they found do not count?

 

[Charlotte]

We do as Dr Taylor recommends. We often get hairy show horses in during the winter when clipping and bathing are not the best option. Occasionally one will exhibit signs of lice upon arrival. Dr Taylor's method fixes them right up. I use a horse lice powder in the manner he describes.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I am aware of the different kinds of louse. I am also aware that the product being discussed does not have any effect on lice- if it did the manufacturers would be cashing in on the fact. In order to destroy either kind of louse you need to put the product on the outside of the horse, not the inside. If the internal wormer destroyed lice it is unlikely that cattle people would bother using the pour on- the injection apparently has limited use on sucking lice. I do not know where or when this myth started but it has been around for long enough that, were it to be grounded in truth, the manufacturers of the product would be encouraging it, which they are not. There have been extensive tests over her, but they have been by owners, not clinical tests, so I guess the facts they found do not count?

Avermectins affects against internal and external parasites has been tested repeatedly. I refer you to the abstract from the Journal of the South African Vet. Assn below from 1982.

The topical form of ivermectin does not stay on the skin surface of cattle, it is absorbd into the body via the hair follicle. The reason it isn't used in horses is because the hair diameter of horses does not allow for systemic absorption. Using the topical or injectable will give you similar results when treating external parasites in cattle.

Adding a label claim to a drug product requires the same extensive testing as bringing the product to market in the first place, somewhere in the neighborhood of $500,000,000. As ivermectin is now generic, no single drug company would want to spend the money for an added claim only to allow other companies to add the claim for free.

The avermectins: A new family of antiparasitic agents

J S Afr Vet Assoc. June 1982;53(2):87-90. 34 Refs
I K Hotson
 

Article Abstract

 

The avermectins are macrocyclic lactones produced by fermentation of the soil micro-organism Streptomyces avermitilis. They show activity against a broad range of nematodes and arthropod parasites of domestic animals at dose rates of 300 microgram/kg or less. Unlike the macrolide or polyene antibiotics, they lack significant antibacterial or antifungal activity. By oral or parenteral administration, avermectins are active against gastrointestinal nematodes and lungworms, and important ectoparasites such as lice, mange mites, ticks and larval stages of flies. They show excellent activity against parasites resistant to existing anthelmintics or ectoparasiticides. The avermectins appear to cause paralysis of nematodes and arthropods by opening gamma-aminobutyric acid-mediated chloride channels at the neuromuscular junction.

 

Dr. Taylor

 

[sparklingjewelacres]

It is logical to think that taking something internally will make a difference on a blood sucking insect. For some reason, mosquitoes do not like my blood much at all. They will swarm all around me but rarely bite me. I don't wear perfume or lotions either. I believe it has something to do with vitamin B complex that I take and for one of our older dogs that became sensitive to chemicals.. we gave her Brewers Yeast caps and yes..... it did help her with her flea problem.

Parasites need to be treated externally - I realize that ...but the nutrition of an animal's immune system to naturally fight off parasites needs consideration as well. There is a reason why sickly animals get a heavier worm load than healthy ones and also a reason why some cats, dogs, goats and other animals will get mange overload if their immune system is compromised.

I truly am all for treating the outside of an animal for lice, mites, or fleas but also believe that the over all nutrition has to be considered to help the immune system have the ability to fight off internal parasites and external ones as well.

As far as the Ivermectin is concerned for oral help in fighting against lice or mites... it is an observance on my part that I have just thot about. Does an oral Ivermectin actually help to keep some external parasites at bay? I believe it can just by the way that chemical works. If the company claimed that it did do such a thing, it would have to be marketed under something other than a de-wormer. Also... it probably could cause some to misuse the medication as it is only intended to treat internal parasites. Weather or not ivermectin actually works from the inside out to the skin... It isnt that ilogical to believe that it could. Brewers Yeast works on some dogs to keep fleas off. We no longer have lice or mange or fleas on any animals except for the cat and every thing minus the cat flea is species specific.