Lethal white foal?

[rabbitsfizz]

Jumping to the end here!!

This is why I hate the term "overo" so much..a total misleading nonsense!!

There are four, totally separate, totally unrelated Patterns in horses (it is not a colour!!)

Sabino

Frame

Splash

Tobiano.

Frame (LWO) can be tested for and is the only one that carries the gene for a Lethal White Overo foal.

ONLY a LWO bred to another LWO carrier can result in a LWO positive foal that will have unformed intestines.

I know this is not your fault, so I can only feel sorry for you.

The people that bred this foal are MORONS!!

This is irresponsibility beyond reason and he-ll reserves a special place for idiots like this!!

You can have your foal tested, and I know the testing people will "express" the results and phone you with them so long as you tell them clearly it is a LWO + FOAL you are testing for.

I would not give up just yet as it is possible this is a Maximum White, or even, possibly a Dominant White (not been seen in Minis yet, I have to say)

If you foal shows signs of colic, and onset will be severe and sudden, then I would not hesitate to euthanise.

I am so sorry for you and for the agony your little mare will have to go through if this is the case.

You should video the whole process including the death of the foal and send it to the people that caused this outrage.

They should be prevented form registering any foals with any register.

Do you get how angry I am???

If NO-ONE had known (and this does happen) then I could have passed it off as just "Stupid" as EVERY single Pinto, even the minimals, should be tested before breeding, and these people KNEW what they had done.

OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH! OH!

Beyond Stupid, words cannot express how I feel!!!

NOT your fault, NOT your responsibility, thank God the mare was bought by someone who bothered to do their research.

I hope your foal is not Lethal White I really, really do.

 

[Meavey]

Actually they can pas some stool, I´ve heard that before, just some residu thats already in there.

I´m afraid you might have an lethel white then...

Hope she wil be fine...

If both parents carry it, you have;

25% chance of non-LWO,

50% on LWO (frame overo), and

25% of a lethal LWO/LWO.

If you breed a carrier to a non-carrier is:

50% non-LWO and

50% LWO (frame)

Some people think you have more chance of overo so take the chance anyway but that´s not true, it only adds 25% lethal and you still ony have 50% chance of a frame, and I think you should prefer solid over dead...

 

[Jill]

I'm holding you and your filly in my thoughts. I pray that everything will turn out well!!!

 

[kaykay]

Im so sorry!! I posted this on the other lethal thread and will re post here. You are in my thoughts

Overo Lethal White Syndrome or "O. L. W. S.", is a terminal defect that inevitably kills newborn foals. It is one of many birth defects that trouble breeders. Lethal "white" foals have blue or washed out grayish eyes (not like true albinos who have pink eyes) and generally have no skin pigmentation at all, although in many cases, some foals have a touch of dark coloration here and there on the body. We had one born with a tail that was partially black. Other than the partially pigmented tail, this absolutely gorgeous foal was snow white. Breeders have reported foals born with small dark spots.

The foals initially appear normal except for their unusual coloring. They're usually breathtakingly beautiful and perfectly conformed. The foals stand and nurse and start playing next to their mothers, like any normal foal. Then you notice that they don't have a bowel movement after they nurse or when you give them an enema. Signs of colic, or intestinal cramping generally begin, from one hour to twelve hours following birth, due to the foal's inability to pass feces. The "lethal white" foal has an underdeveloped and contracted intestine. In most cases, the intestine simply stops short of the anal opening so the food cannot pass all the way through the foal's digestive system. This problem is caused by a failure of the embryonic cells that form nerves in the gastrointestinal system, and attempts to surgically bypass the problem have, to date, been unsuccessful.

In most cases, the foal will start to show signs of distress within three to five hours after birth by rolling up on their back repeatedly. However, cases have been reported where foals go up to three days before signs are noticed. Personally, in those cases, I feel that no one has been paying attention to what's really going on. Depending upon the severity of the cramping and intestinal twisting, it can take several days for the foals to die on their own if no one takes pity on them and has them euthanized.

Lethal white foals just can't seem to get comfortable for very long. They toss and turn, consistently showing signs of distress, and get up and down repeatedly. That's not what normal foals do. They suckle and play and then sleep, with the play periods increasing as the days pass and they get stronger. It is not normal for a foal to roll and roll and roll. It's not normal for a foal's rib cage musculature to cramp or for them to bite at their sides.

It's not normal for them to butt their mother underneath repeatedly if they've already suckled or to switch and twitch their tails all the time (unless they're being bitten by flies) or to suck the tail tight against their buttocks. These are signs of stress and pain. It is not normal for a foal to roll high up on it's back, time after time. A twist can develop in horse intestines from repeated rolling. They aren't built like we are inside. It doesn't matter whether your foal is a lethal white or a normal colored baby, this is a warning sign of possible trouble and you should call a veterinarian immediately if you see this behavior pattern developing. Remember that it's repetitive rolling that goes on and on that is indicative of a problem, or repeated cramping along their rib cage.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I'm very sorry(and I share rabbitfizz's ire; the people who knowingly bred this way should be horsewhipped...).

Many years ago, well before so much was known about all the manifestations of patterning genetics, I had a 'big horse' lethal white foal. I'd bred our frame overo to a VERY nice stallion who belonged to a longtime acquaintance; he appeared to be 'just' a tobiano to us, then. I sent the mare back down to a friend where we used to live in the southern part of the state for foaling; she foaled on Easter AM, and my friend called me to say it might be a lethal white. I immediately drove the 2 hours down to see for myself. It appeared totally normal, but never passed feces. The ONLY vet in that town happened to live almost next door to my friend, and amazingly, came over in early PM about something her kids were selling--the vet's then-husband was WIDELY known to be a nutcase, and would not have let us contact her for a 'professional' call on that holiday day(yeah, I know...!)--but because she came to Pat's house on her own, we were able to ask her to come and euthanize the foal later that evening--and she did. The foal was JUST really showing distress; I did NOT want it to suffer all night! We left the body w/ the dam overnight; the vet came back and necropsied it on the spot the next AM. Sure enough, the intestines 'ended' in a little 'drinking straw'-like 'tube'--NOTHING would ever have traveled through it. It was awful; however, I was glad that I went ahead and made the decision to euthanize BEFORE the foal went through terrible suffering.

Later, I heard the stallion sired ANOTHER lethal white that year. I never knew if the owner might have KNOWN the horse was in fact a tovero, or not....turned out, for someone who'd 'been into' horses for MANY years, the owner was in fact abysmally ignorant about such things....

It is true that there is NOTHING that can be done to 'fix' this problem; the only 'solution' is NOT TO RISK a breeding that might produce it!

Wishing for you the best possible outcome,

Margo

 

[Teresa]

ARe there any updates this morning? Prayers going out!!!

 

[MBhorses]

praying for your filly. We would love to see a photo of her. I sure she is precious. I pray she will be okay.keep us posted.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Im so sorry!! I posted this on the other lethal thread and will re post here. You are in my thoughts

Overo Lethal White Syndrome or "O. L. W. S.", is a terminal defect that inevitably kills newborn foals. It is one of many birth defects that trouble breeders. Lethal "white" foals have blue or washed out grayish eyes (not like true albinos who have pink eyes) and generally have no skin pigmentation at all, although in many cases, some foals have a touch of dark coloration here and there on the body. We had one born with a tail that was partially black. Other than the partially pigmented tail, this absolutely gorgeous foal was snow white. Breeders have reported foals born with small dark spots.

The foals initially appear normal except for their unusual coloring. They're usually breathtakingly beautiful and perfectly conformed. The foals stand and nurse and start playing next to their mothers, like any normal foal. Then you notice that they don't have a bowel movement after they nurse or when you give them an enema. Signs of colic, or intestinal cramping generally begin, from one hour to twelve hours following birth, due to the foal's inability to pass feces. The "lethal white" foal has an underdeveloped and contracted intestine. In most cases, the intestine simply stops short of the anal opening so the food cannot pass all the way through the foal's digestive system. This problem is caused by a failure of the embryonic cells that form nerves in the gastrointestinal system, and attempts to surgically bypass the problem have, to date, been unsuccessful.

In most cases, the foal will start to show signs of distress within three to five hours after birth by rolling up on their back repeatedly. However, cases have been reported where foals go up to three days before signs are noticed. Personally, in those cases, I feel that no one has been paying attention to what's really going on. Depending upon the severity of the cramping and intestinal twisting, it can take several days for the foals to die on their own if no one takes pity on them and has them euthanized.

Lethal white foals just can't seem to get comfortable for very long. They toss and turn, consistently showing signs of distress, and get up and down repeatedly. That's not what normal foals do. They suckle and play and then sleep, with the play periods increasing as the days pass and they get stronger. It is not normal for a foal to roll and roll and roll. It's not normal for a foal's rib cage musculature to cramp or for them to bite at their sides.

It's not normal for them to butt their mother underneath repeatedly if they've already suckled or to switch and twitch their tails all the time (unless they're being bitten by flies) or to suck the tail tight against their buttocks. These are signs of stress and pain. It is not normal for a foal to roll high up on it's back, time after time. A twist can develop in horse intestines from repeated rolling. They aren't built like we are inside. It doesn't matter whether your foal is a lethal white or a normal colored baby, this is a warning sign of possible trouble and you should call a veterinarian immediately if you see this behavior pattern developing. Remember that it's repetitive rolling that goes on and on that is indicative of a problem, or repeated cramping along their rib cage.

Kay, what web site did you get this from? I'd like to see it and you really should reference it anyway.

MB, I don't think this is the time to ask for pictures, especially if this little one isn't doing to well.

BuckNAppy - I praying for you and your foal.

 

[RJRMINIS]

I am so sorry you are going through this, I hope and pray that this foal is not LW but it sure sounds like it is. I know last year I had an all white colt born with only two black quarter size spots on the side of his belly, and a little black in his tail, when he was born I freaked out, I had tested the sire and he was negative for LWO but had not tested the dam.....I later did and she was negative too, but when he was born, I could not wait to see him pass stool, because In my mind he was so white, it scared me, even though I knew his sire was negative...I kept thinking, what if the lab made a mistake...but he turned out fine, he was the maximum expression sabino(I think that is what they call it) But I know how worried you are, and I pray for a good outcome.

 

[BuckNappy]

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers,unfortunately my baby girl was euthanized this morning.As much as I wanted to save her I know there was nothing that could be done but to spare her the pain,she never did pass actual stool,just a little yellow fluid,she was standing at a slant like her little belly hurt.The vet confirmed she was a lethal white.Im doing fine as I know I did what was best for the foal,this was the first foal I have ever lost,it sure takes a toll on you.Im more concerned about my mare who is pacing and looking for her foal,I feel just awful.I am weaning 2 foals,I put the smaller of the 2 with her just to see if that would help her heal but it just upset her more,probably a stupid mistake on my part but I have never delt with a mare losing her foal,Id do anything to help her.What a shame

I guess just alot of love and attention and some time will help her heal.Im sorry I did not get any pictures,I just didnt feel I should or could get pictures of her knowing she could be gone in just a few hours...

 

[Songcatcher]

Sorry this has happened. Unfortunately, when breeding many dificulties can arise. Had the breeder been educated and acted responsibly, this one could have been avoided.

 

[Miniv]

I so very sorry for you.......and for your mare........

 

[Genie]

So sorry for all of you.

Such a shame.

 

[minimule]

I'm sorry you lost her. Did you leave the foal with the mare for a while after she was euthanized? I know most breeders will leave the little one there for a few hours to let the mare realize it is gone. It also gives them a little time to mourn. It's a hard thing to witness (been there 2x) but it does help the mare.

 

[wildoak]

I'm so sorry for your loss, but thankful your baby is out of pain. I hope the breeder is aware of this and is responsible enough to not repeat the experience with other mares.

Jan

 

[dgrminis]

I am sorry that it didnt turn out "happier" -- my thoughts are with your mare and you...

 

[sundaymom]

What has happened to you and your mare is heartbreaking. So sad to read today the results. Will have you in my thoughts.

 

[Teresa]

I have been checking back to see about your baby. Sorry for you foal and the mare...and for you. Just know that you did the right thing....if only the breeder had.

 

[tagalong]

I was hoping that your baby might have been one of those exceptions - but sadly, that was not the case.

So sorry.... I was so hoping that when you said yellow stool that you meant the yellow poop that comes after the meconium - but that was not the case... so sad...

 

[Gena]

I am sooo very sorry to read your news and what you have had to go through (((((HUGS)))))