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If you show or if you were going to show, would you want the judge to place you according to what he

  • What the judge likes best?

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  • Which is best according to the Standard of Perfection?

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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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well our standard of perfection is so very generic that for me I assume I am paying for there opinion on what is the best horse in the ring at the time (being that they are human) what they like will of course be what they are drawn to as in type
 

shminifancier

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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:
well our standard of perfection is so very generic that for me I assume I am paying for there opinion on what is the best horse in the ring at the time (being that they are human) what they like will of course be what they are drawn to as in type
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I agree because of no breed standard how can there be a standard of perfection because of what breed is that miniature suppose to look like An Arab? A Quarter Horse A Morgan A Shetland.. No breed standards are set up so how can there be a standard of perfection??.. To What breed of horse are you judging that mini with?? So I did not vote. Anf if I did I would go for what the judge likes in his eye.
 
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Vertical Limit

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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:
well our standard of perfection is so very generic that for me I assume I am paying for there opinion on what is the best horse in the ring at the time (being that they are human) what they like will of course be what they are drawn to as in type
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EXACTLY.............so I can't vote either because it's a little of both and more.
 

Buckskin gal

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Sorry, but when I went back to vote I hit the wrong key and voted for what the judge likes best instead of Standard of Perfection. Mary
 

Magic

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Well, I'm going to figure that the judge KNOWS the standard of perfection, and what a good horse should be like, conformationally, so basically I am paying that judge for their opinion on my horse. That's pretty much what a horse show is.
 

runamuk

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the judges opinion of what he/she feels is the best horse in the ring on that day.
 

ruffian

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IMO - I can't vote for what the judge likes best, because if the judge isn't using our standard of perfection, then what are we striving for? Judges (I've heard
) are human, and each have their own favorites - a judge who likes arabs is going to choose the more fine boned, high headed. A quarter horse judge is going to put that horse at the bottom. If we don't demand the judges use our SOP, then why bother? Yes, it's their opinion of what they like at that show, but there has to be someplace to start from.
 

shminifancier

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What SOP??
Yours, your next door neighbors, Joe blow down the road???? This is a height breed and no one mini has been set aside to act as the Perfect Miniature to go striving for~!?? Every mini is a mixture of of Shetlands and other ponies over the years.. There is no one miniature that has been designated as the prefect animal so that is what you should strive for.. Some are draft type some are English type (Arab) some are stocky No SOP can be found to be set for One miniature to breed after and attain those qualities.. Or pattern your breeding program after, is another way if saying it..
 
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andi

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I chose B - which is best according to the Standard of Perfection.

Which they can do, because we have a standard of perfection.

THE AMERICAN MINIATURE HORSE STANDARD OF PERFECTION

GENERAL IMPRESSION: A small, sound, well-balanced horse,

possessing the correct conformation characteristics required of

most breeds––refinement and femininity in the mare, boldness

and masculinity in the stallion. The general impression should be

one of symmetry, strength, agility and alertness. Since the breed

objective is the smallest possible perfect horse, preference in

judging shall be given the smaller horse, other characteristics

being approximately equal.

SIZE: Must measure not more than 34 inches at the base of the

last hairs of the mane.

HEAD: In proportion to length of neck and body. Broad forehead

with large prominent eyes, set wide apart. Comparatively short

distance between eyes and muzzle. Profile straight or slightly

concave below the eyes. Large nostrils. Clean, refined muzzle.

Even bite.

EARS: Medium in size. Pointed. Carried alertly, with tips curving

slightly inward.

THROAT-LATCH: Clean and well defined, allowing ample flexation

at the poll.

NECK: Flexible, lengthy, in proportion to body and type and

blending smoothly into the withers.

SHOULDERS: Long, sloping and well-angulated, allowing a free

swinging stride and alert head/neck carriage. Well muscled forearm.

BODY: Well muscled, with ample bone and substance. Balanced

and well proportioned. Short back and loins in relation to length

of underline. Smooth and generally level topline. Deep girth and

flank. Trim barrel.

HINDQUARTERS: Long, well-muscled hip, thigh and gaskin.

Highest point of croup to be same height as withers. Tail set neither

excessively high or low, but smoothly rounding at the rump.

LEGS: Set straight and parallel when viewed from front or back.

Straight, true and squarely set, when viewed from side with

hooves pointing directly ahead. Pasterns sloping about 45

degrees and blending smoothly, with no change of angle, from

the hooves to the ground. Hooves to be round and compact,

trimmed as short as practical for an unshod horse. Smooth, fluid

gait in motion.

COLOR: Any color or marking pattern, and any eye color, is

equally acceptable. The hair should be lustrous and silky.

It is not very specific, but it is still there and needs to be followed. There are parts of it that do disqualify some peoples preferences, so it isn't just some vague meaningless formality.

The way I see it that is like saying an Arabian horse lover, who in there opinion thinks Arabians are the best breed, could become a quarter horse judge and then ignore the Quarter horse standard of perfection and judge by the Arabian Standard, that's ridiculous.

A judges first focus should always be following the specific breeds standard of perfection and selecting which horse, in there opinion, most closely resembles it.
 

js1arab

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I also would have to say that it is ideally a bit of both. I will use Arabs as an example. You could have a class in which, let's say has 5 horses.

#1 small, wide set eyes, straight head, nice tail carriage, crooked legged, rounded croup.

#2 tall, straight headed, nice croup, nice shoulder, so-so movement and tail carriage

#3 small, straight legged, flat croup, wide set eye, dished head

#4 tall(16 h.h.), dished head, wide set eye, flat croup, straight legged

#5 small, straight legged, wide set eyes, dished head, round croup

OK, now knowing that an Arabs SOP is a horse ideally 14.3 - 15 hands; large expressive, wide set eyes, with at least a slight dish to the head; and should have a higher tail carriage than many breeds (this is a brief discription just so you have an idea of the standards looked for)

My placings would be 3, 5, 4, 2, 1

#3 in my opinion is first. Both 3 and 5 meet the SOP, but I like to see a slightly flat croup (not so flat that it appears that way when not being presented, but flat enough no one mistakes it for a Q.H.
)

#5 is second because it is the next best representitive of the breed even though a bit round at the croup (IMO)

#4 next because it still meets most of the SOP except it is tall

#2 although tall it is more sound in conformation than #1

Now here comes the problem, many people love the taller arabs so they might take #4 first, others dislike the flat croup so they might place #3 someplace other than where I did. You have three horses that come very close to breed standards, when it comes down to it, the final decing factor WILL be - like it or not - what that judge prefers

Sorry so long, but I just wanted to show how conformation, type, and opinion all come into play when judging a horse.
 

justaboutgeese

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Being that if minis are a height breed and that is the sole criteria for registration there is nothing left but what the judge deems to be the best in his or her opinion. Now if there were breed standards for them to go by that would be a different ballgame entirely
 

Sue_C.

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Well, I'm going to figure that the judge KNOWS the standard of perfection, and what a good horse should be like, conformationally, so basically I am paying that judge for their opinion on my horse.
Your paying for that person's opinion on that given day.
The difference of opinion is that MOST, and ALL GOOD Judges opinions are EDUCATED opinions.

I have known Judges of many breeds, and all of them have studied their chosen breeds for years. There are Judging clinics going on all the time. Many of these Judges are carded in several breeds; so certainly have the brains and knowledge to know "apples from oranges", if you get the drift. A well built, conformationally correct horse, will win over one that is not as well made...whatever the type. Many Judges judge open shows, where many different breeds are represented, they can tell the difference between conformation, and "type". If they don't they won't be making it as a horse Judge for long.
 

Robin1

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When I was showind dogs you always knew that it was just ONE mans opinion on that given day.

However, most if not all of our judges came into mini's from different breeds. THey were in those breeds because that is what THEY liked. So you are going to have judges that prefer the quarter horse, arab, etc. look. I really enjoy watching a show with more than one judge, the placings can be all over the place just depending on what "that" particular judge likes.

There was a show this spring where there were 2 judges. One judge didn't like pintos the other didn't like blue eyes. So the multi color class ended up with minimal pintos winning.

No matter how much schooling a person has, they still have their own likes and dislikes.

Robin
 

Mona

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I don't undrstand why people keep saying Miniatures do not have a Standard of Perfection. There are...whether breeders choose to follow it or not, is another story, but there are Standards of Perfection in both AMHA and AMHR.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMHA - Standard of Perfection

General Impression: A small, sound, well-balanced horse, possessing the correct conformation characteristics required of most breeds, Refinement and femininity in the mare. Boldness and masculinity in the stallion - the general impression should be one of symmetry, strength, agility and alertness. Since the breed objective is the smallest possible perfect horse, preference in judging shall be given the smaller horse, other characteristics being approximately equal.

Size: Must measure not more than 34 inches at the withers, at the last hairs of the mane.

Head: In proportion to length of neck and body. Broad forehead with large prominent eyes set wide apart. Comparatively short distance between eyes and muzzle. Profile straight or slightly concave below the eyes. Large nostrils. Clean, refined. Even bite.

Ears: Medium in size. Pointed. Carried alertly with tips curving slightly inward.

Throat-Latch: Clean and well defined allowing ample flexion at the poll.

Neck: Flexible, lengthy, in proportion to body and type and blending smoothly into the withers.

Shoulder: Long, sloping and well angulated, allowing a free-swinging stride and alert head/neck carriage. Well-muscled forearm.

Body: Well muscled with ample bone and substance. Balanced and well proportioned. Short back and loins in relation to length of underline. Smooth and generally level top-line. Deep girth and flank. Trim barrel.

Hindquarters: Long, well-muscled hip, thigh and gaskin. Highest point of croup to be same height as withers, Tail set neither excessively high or low, but smoothly rounding off rump.

Legs: Set straight and parallel when viewed from front or back. Straight, true and squarely set, when viewed from the side with hooves pointing directly ahead. Pasterns sloping about 45 degrees and blending smoothly, with no change of angle from the hooves to the ground. Hooves to be round and compact. Trimmed as short as practicable for an unshod horse. Smooth, fluid gait in motion.

Color: Any color or marking pattern, and any eye color, is equally acceptable. The hair should be lustrous and silky.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMHR

AMHR's can be found on page 240 and 241 at http://www.shetlandminiature.com/downloads...E_BOOK_2005.pdf I could not copy/paste it since it is in .pdf format.
 

Buckskin gal

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Thanks to all of you who voted. I am glad to see that twice as many would want to be judged by the Standard. Hopefully this will make more people aware that there is a Standard of perfection for the MIniature and give them something to go by in doing any breeding. Mary
 

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