Is it worth breeding to sell colts for $800?

[barnbum]

For a break from teaching, during lunch I'll glance at the sales page once a week just to see what's out there. I'm shocked at some of the low prices I see. 2009 colts for $800? And the prices go lower than that! A LOT lower!

I've not had many foals here, but I know enough to understand it's NOT worth having a mare bred, blood tests, extra nutrition, mare stare, vet checks again, time in handling, shots, deworming, extra stall cleaning...for $800? Why do folks breed and go through all that work and worry just to sell for so little? The obvious answer is the market and economy, but then why don't more don't stop breeding after discovering just how low they have to go to move a horse?

And then I always love the "need to move these horses to make room for the 2009 foals" line.

I just don't get it.

 

[Dairygirl]

I do this for a hobby. What I don't sell to good homes I keep and if they are colts they get gelded just as soon as they drop. I know that with the market there is little to no profit so the money that I do spend is money I can afford to spend. I am no longer breeding paint horses and in the process of reducing my numbers but only to good people. if they don't leave I will continue to feed and care for them. Lucky enough for me I have the land and the means to pay for my hobby, but if I didn't I sure wouldn't be breeding. If I couldn't afford to feed them then I wouldn't have them at all.

I breed going in knowing that the resulting foal may be under my care for a while and yes I have reduced my colts to $500 each but I will not sell to just any one either. I normally only have 4 to 6 foals a year but this year I had 9 only because I bought 3 mares already in foal. Most of my mares get bred every other year and I'm happy with that.

This year I only bred a few mares because of my big colt turn out and if I don't place them then the following year I just won't breed at all.

That is just me everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Lacie]

As they say, if you want to make a small fortune with horses, start with a large fortune.

The economy isn't exactly helping ANY breed in the horse industry. Not everyone has $2500 to spend on a new colt, and a few people are actually realizing this. So if you want to make money, consider selling, breeding and training high end performance horses. I mean, if I had $2,500 - and I could choose an exceptionally bred paint or quarter horse prospect that I could ride and train for mega bucks, versus a mini I could sell for a few thousand in a couple of months - what would you do?

I cant even make money at shows anymore because there's been such a drop in attendance from high fuel prices to people losing their jobs and selling off their horses. And it sucks because my paint is really good xD

 

[Chaos Ranch]

For a break from teaching, during lunch I'll glance at the sales page once a week just to see what's out there. I'm shocked at some of the low prices I see. 2009 colts for $800? And the prices go lower than that! A LOT lower!

I've not had many foals here, but I know enough to understand it's NOT worth having a mare bred, blood tests, extra nutrition, mare stare, vet checks again, time in handling, shots, deworming, extra stall cleaning...for $800? Why do folks breed and go through all that work and worry just to sell for so little? The obvious answer is the market and economy, but then why don't more don't stop breeding after discovering just how low they have to go to move a horse?
And then I always love the "need to move these horses to make room for the 2009 foals" line.

I just don't get it.

Don't forget to add in the costs of AMHA/AMHR memberships, the cost to register a foal, and the cost of the DNA work (if needed.) and if it applies, the cost of advertising.

I'm not exactly anti or pro breeding right now. What a person does is their business... as long as they have the money to provide for their horses, and their families it's their business what they do... but it is interesting to think about all the actual money that goes into a foal and then to be saddened by the money you get out of a foal.

 

[Matt73]

I'm not surprised at all, in this economy. In my area, the mini market is almost non-existent to begin with. What I breed, I will try to sell to a great home (whether that's around here or elsewhere), but...I may just give Lex a year off next year. Any animal I own/breed always has a place here. I made them (so-to-speak

), so I'm responsible for them.

I definitely am not doing this for the money

The people making money in breeding are the elite sport horse breeders (hunters/jumpers) and thoroughbreds (racing).

 

[Minimor]

Well, around here there seem to be a lot of big horse breeders that are selling their weanlings and even yearlings for $250 at some of the sales. In comparison someone getting $800 for a weanling mini is surely doing a lot better. Obviously there are some/many who feel it is worth it to them to raise and sell horses for these prices, and I guess that is their choice to make. Those that don't feel it's worth it will probably stop doing it.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

It seems to me that those who breed responsibly do it primarily for the love of the animal and the breed, not for money. Money is a nice side effect if you can get it, but owning horses is a losing financial prospect to begin with and we all know that. I buy my horses for relatively cheap, pump many times that amount into them over their lifetimes, then lose them without ever having gotten more than maybe $50 or $60 dollars back in all that time. And I love every minute of it because I love the horses.

People breed for many reasons, but the only ones I ever hear say it's for the money are the completely irresponsible backyard breeders who don't put any of that expensive care into the mare and foal in the first place. Breed, leave 'em alone for a year, and voila! Instant $800!

I understand wanting to recoup your investment, but realistically I'm not going to pay big dollars for an untried mini colt when I could get a nice finished riding horse for a few hundred more. Not unless he's something pretty special! Buyers can afford to be picky in this economy.

Leia

 

[JMS Miniatures]

The thing is I think alot of people are realizing the bad economy and are starting to sell these horses are realistic prices. Weanlings, honestly, what good can they do, you have to start training them up yourselves, you can't use them for breeding purposes right now, and they have no show ring experience then realisticly their prices should be low. But if you find a really nice weanling that has done well in the show ring then yeah they are going to go up really high.

The thing is I think people should stop looking at these animals as breeding machines and start looking at them and seeing what they can do, sure not every animal should be shown, but everyone has a purpose besides breeding. Also big horses the more training they have the more the price goes up, shouldn't that be the same with these minis, also shouldn't the value of a trained proven show gelding be way up there just like in big horses? I don't know I just think people should start looking at these miniatures a little differently and not see them as a breeding factory.

 

[barnbum]

I do this for a hobby.

Me, too. And that may just be the answer for many. People ask me if I do it for a business, and I say no, it's an expensive hobby.

But, when they see it takes me 2+ hours a day to care for 7 horses (not counting playing/working them), and that I get up at 5 AM and do all that before getting to work, and I need to get home right after school and I never leave home over night (it's been 8 years) because of the horses, they sure do wonder and shake their head. When I explain it--it does sound pretty weird.

They just say "you must really love them." Oh yeah.

But, that being said, with working full time and adding ALL it takes to get a foal on the ground--even I can see it's just plain silly to keep producing foals unless I'm willing to keep them. And I am. I've only had foals every other year for that reason. But, I now want to get to a place where their maintenance doesn't take as long so I have more time to "play" with the ones I have. That means cutting numbers.

The thing is I think people should stop looking at these animals as breeding machines and start looking at them and seeing what they can do, sure not every animal should be shown, but everyone has a purpose besides breeding. Also big horses the more training they have the more the price goes up, shouldn't that be the same with these minis, also shouldn't the value of a trained proven show gelding be way up there just like in big horses? I don't know I just think people should start looking at these miniatures a little differently and not see them as a breeding factory.

This thought was mentioned maybe a year ago--and it was a true eye opener for me then. I have a filly with an off bite who I put up for sale years ago as a pet. But, when I ask the potential buyers if they're planning on breeding her they say yes!

So, she's not going anywhere. She's such an awesome pet!! I knew my 10 year old mares would retire here now that I'm done breeding because if sold, there's a 100% chance they'd be treated as broodmares, and I just can't do that. (Oh, I want to keep them anyway.

)

Don't forget to add in the costs of AMHA/AMHR memberships, the cost to register a foal, and the cost of the DNA work (if needed.) and if it applies, the cost of advertising.

Right! Taking the pictures is a pain for two--I was feeling very sorry this week for anyone who had many to reg!

Plus the constant worry about their safety.... it's like having two year olds in the barn.

I want each of my horses to have a job unrelated to breeding, and I want time to work them in those jobs. Breeding horses was an exhausting, but yes, fun experience, but I'm ready to move on to other adventures with my minis. I'm relieved to leave the stress behind--even for the arrival of a cute little foals.

I guess I just hope others will decide that too because the price on these horses tells an important story.

 

[KenBen]

Since I retired a year ago,I had to find a means of generating income to keep on raising our minis as the market was down dramatically. That said I started advertizing for birthday parties where by we took our minis to the peoples homes and gave kids rides in the cart. Well I tell you this has become a good soure of income for us. I also sell photos of my foals. We still breed as I am always improving my herd.

kenben

 

[Dr. Pam]

I've had 14 foals in 22 years. I do this because I love the minis, and for what they've done for my kids...and the neighbors kids, the 4H kids, and any other kids I've been able to glom onto. I am so far in the red on the mini's I don't want to do the math. I have a fantastic 4 year old gelding going well in CDE. 36", reg AMHR. $500 stud fee, $800 gelding (retained testicle), $700 professional training to start him last winter when I was out of commission, 4 years of feed, vaccines, and worming. I would love to get $2000 for him. Yep, big profit margin on that.

 

[backwoodsnanny]

Karla

When you asked me about the market I gave you an honest appraisal of what I had been seeing in the market for a couple of years. The market is down on all horses and we didnt breed for any this year. I have kept babies that were born 3 years ago for that reason. You didnt believe me at the time but I can see that now you know why I told you the prices I did. I really wasnt underestimating what minis are going for and no you really cant put a foal on the ground for profit but you can make wonderful mini friends and have fun doing whatever you want to do with them. We are going to breed one mare for next year and we will be keeping the offspring to show and have fun with. Time will tell if we breed more than one. I have seen colts go for $400 around here and they werent low quality minis either.

 

[walkermini]

I bred big horses (Tennessee Walkers) before coming to the Minis. I got out of the biggies because the cost of raising the foals truly was way more than they sold for-it just wasnt feasible spending all the extra money to sell the foals for so little.

The minis have been a different story. As far as taking care of the mare prior to foaling, I dont have alot of added expense. Whether the mare is bred or not, I vaccinate, worm, etc. The biggest difference is putting the bred mares on a non fescue hay, which is more expensive because we have so much fescue here. The hay guys charge more for the guaranteed non fescue (timothy and/or orchard grass). But the minis eat so much less than the biggies, its not a problem.

As far as other expenses, I dont do mare stare, I have my own stallions so dont pay stud fees, do my own chores so dont pay extra for stall cleaning... The mares eat more while nursing of course (but not alot, maybe its just that I was so used to feeding my big mares so much, that feeding a mini mare an extra cup doesnt seem like much?) And of course, worming the foals and feeding them. But then, again the babies dont eat a lot (by my standards) and wormer is cheap, especially when you can split a tube to do several minis, versus one tube for a big horse. The registration for me is cheap also, It cost me $81 to register a Walker foal, it costs $20 per registry for a mini. Just $40 to double reg. So to me selling a colt for even $500 is worth it. The way I see it, either way I would own the Minis, so if I breed and can make a little by selling the foals, its worth it. And if I never sell the foals? I have alot of land, and dont have a problem with them staying if needed. If I did get to the point where they wouldnt sell, and was to my limit on what I could reasonably care for both money and time wise, I would stop breeding and just keep what I had.

Just a little side note-last year I sold two mini colts (both AMHR only) and a TWH colt and TWH filly (both registered). I sold one Mini colt for $600, and one for $800. I sold the TWH foals for $275 each. If I had to factor in the extra costs for these, I would say the minis were about $50(this is the extra food/hay for the mare prior to foaling, feed after foaling, wormings, and registration.) The TWH foals cost me about $400 each.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

I see nothing wrong in selling colts for $800 or under. I have enjoyed finding good homes for my colts with first time mini owners for less than that. Not everyone is in to showing the top end horses, and kids can have just as much fun at local or 4-H shows. Or just loving a back yard pet, or a therapy horse, or a trails driving buddy. There are people out there who would like to own a horse but can't afford the higher cost. I have sold colts at both ends of the spectrum and an inexpensive mini gives just as much love as a more expensive one. There is a horse out there for everybody. Sorry, off my soapbox now.

 

[Jill]

I know there are plenty of colts for sale that I don't think are worth $500.

In only just the money sense, when you factor in ALL the financial cost, time, effort, thought and worry that goes into producing foals, I don't think in terms of only money it's worth breeding for even more moderately priced foals. I make more for my time, thought and effort when I put it into clients than horses by far!

So, you've got to look at it as if it's worth it in an overall sense. To me, it is, because I am striving to produce quality foals and I have a lot of emotional satisfaction regarding what we've been able to get on the ground. Not only that, but of course I love my horses and I love spending time with the foals. My primary goal is to produce good quality foals, and acheiving that, improving the overall breed, is rewarding.

If you look at it only from a dollar and cents stand point, for me, NO, it's not worth it even if you're aiming to get more than $800 for a colt. But if you look at the personal satisfaction you get from the foals as part of the payment, then that's what makes it worth it for me. Not that I don't think good breeding animals can pay for themselves, but to make it worth it in a financial sense, you have to factor the value of your own time -- and I mean both the physical labor and the mental effort (and I'd also say the cost anti-anxiety meds as needed, but they're really inexpensive LOL).



PS throwing my own thoughts out here -- I am certain the OP gets more out of her involvement in horses than just money -- but just the same, I know there lots of people out there who think breeding might be a good way to make some easy money (it's NOT!) and those types rarely even start with breeding quality animals.

 

[Miniv]

With the economy the way it is......if we sell a colt for $800 to a GOOD HOME, I'm not going to complain.......

Granted, with the breeding, and often the training we put in, they are worth more........but right now I'm happy with a home that will use them and appreciate them.

And yes, right now, we are not breeding the mares we were last year or the year before........Frankly, we all should all hold back for two or three years. It's silly to have all our girls' making babies right now..

If everyone takes a break (or cuts back).......the economy takes a breather, in time the "demand" will increase. And, in the meantime, any breeding should be done with only love and looking at improvement of the breed.......Just my two cents.....

 

[Marty]

There's an old adage that says a horse is only worth what someone will pay for him.

People have to consider what they are putting out there to offer in the first place. If you have an $800 horse right now then you'll be lucky to get $500. or less. I feel awful for the ones that have sunk thousands into their programs for years, paid training fees and show fees, have titles and then boom, the sky falls down and they cannot get squat for their hard earned efforts and people want them to dicker down their prices. That's obscene and a slap in the face.

 

[kaykay]

Hi Karla

I just got back from a show and am exhausted. I have to be honest and say I am hurt by your post. I explained to you privately why I priced the 2 colts the way I did so I guess I dont understand why the need for a post on it.

I am one of those people with a colt on my site for 800.00. Not every breeding is going to result in Nat champ or even local champion quality. My colt is a very nice guy but not what I consider breeding material (although I have seen a ton of stallions breeding not as nice as him) He has no glaring faults but he is not extra special. Since hes not extra special he cannot stay a stallion

(dont get me wrong hes extra special in my heart) I am extremely picky about what I will sell as stallion quality. In all my years I have only still sold one colt as stallion quality. My colt is AMHR registered only. He is priced at 800 as a gelding and the buyer has to pay to geld him. While he will make a great performance prospect he wont cut it as a stallion or a halter horse. I feel 800.00 for a single registered not halter quality colt is a fair price. I sold the other one I had listed and the family who bought him paid 200.00 to geld him and have given him the most wonderful home. I cant ask for more.

I have had other STALLIONS that I have sold in the 2500.00 range. I have show geldings I have sold in the 1500.00 range.

You cant set a flat price on colts. I price according to what I feel is fair for that particular horse.

For ME its not all about the money. Its a love and a passion and finding the right home for each horse I produce.

People who watched Shadows cam know that I dont skimp on ANYTHING. When I was worried about him I immediately called and vet and had an IGG pulled on him (which was fine) at the tune of 200.00. So will I make money on Shadow?? No I wont. But I will try my best to be sure he gets a great home and the person buying him knows they got a great quality gelding at a reasonable price.

And to clarify I have never used this in my ads or website

And then I always love the "need to move these horses to make room for the 2009 foals" line. rolleyes.gif I just don't get it

 

[Jill]

There's an old adage that says a horse is only worth what someone will pay for him.People have to consider what they are putting out there to offer in the first place. If you have an $800 horse right now then you'll be lucky to get $500. or less. I feel awful for the ones that have sunk thousands into their programs for years, paid training fees and show fees, have titles and then boom, the sky falls down and they cannot get squat for their hard earned efforts and people want them to dicker down their prices. That's obscene and a slap in the face.

From my perspective, anyone who's serious about breeding for quality has done some if not all of those things. Don't feel sorry. Breed for quality and on a smaller scale as need be until things turn around. I don't know how anyone can try to start a decent program without spending thousands and part to all of the ETC. that goes along with having and enjoying quality horses. I've done the things in your post and am happy about it, not regretful.