I Got A Big Time Biter?? How Do I Make Him Stop??

[New2Minis]

I have posted pictures in my other post.................................

 

[Jean_B]

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, PEOPLE !! She has previously posted that this horse was seriously spoiled before she got him and that he was NOT afraid....that he was doing this out of aggression. He is a 2 year old STALLION. He's not a baby. He is a dangerous hormonal demon. I am NOT advocating beating the horse for pete's sake. Read my post again....THE 3 SECOND RULE. And to reprimand severely within 3 seconds. I am NOT ADVOCATING CONTINUING THE LESSON any longer than a couple of seconds. JEESH!!!!!!!! And I also mentioned rewarding good behavior. JEESH again!!

This MATURE STALLION (yes, 2 is mature!!) is going to hurt someone if this isn't fixed. Pure and simple. My big concern here is the kids. If you do not wish to have them get hurt, keep them away from him because he is not safe and cannot be trusted because HE IS ACTING LIKE A HORMONAL and seriously spoiled stallion.

Once a stallion learns that biting will get ANY kind of reaction, you can never ever again totally trust him. If your plan was to have him for something for the kids to play with, I HIGHLY recommend having him gelded. Even then, since he was a serious biter, I would never completely trust him, but it would not be coupled with the hormonal urge to dominate.

And I've been raising horses (bigs and littles) for around 40 years, so yes, I'm speaking from experience.

 

[Nichcole]

I had this problem with my mini stallion when I first got him(among many other issues) , his biggest problem was respect. If he bite or nipped me I would say no and wack him with the lead rope. Many trainer of big horse recommend yell and wack them with what you have in your hand right away .

I only had to wack him a couple of times and he quite the biteing, another thing I have done is teach him lunging for respect. It is a training method used by Clinton Anderson. I highly recommoned using his ground work techniques on minis it has helped me tremendously. You can see his training shows on RFDTV he recently had a show on mini's . It was at a Mini Farm in Wisconsin.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry Jean but some of the rest of us have been around as long, if not longer and also speak from experience.

I am sorry but I totally disagree and we will have to agree to differ on this one but a two year old COLT is not a mature animal he is a teenager learning the ropes.

Everyone of us, I would think, has whacked a colt/pup/teenager at sometime in their lives.

My take on it is simple- been there, done that, does NOT work.

Sorry but I could not let that go.

Whacking him will stop the biting if you are prepared to hit him hard enough.

At this stage that will have to be pretty darn hard.

Or you can teach him.

Your colt, your call.

 

[Jill]

Sorry Jean but some of the rest of us have been around as long, if not longer and also speak from experience.

I am sorry but I totally disagree and we will have to agree to differ on this one but a two year old COLT is not a mature animal he is a teenager learning the ropes.

Everyone of us, I would think, has whacked a colt/pup/teenager at sometime in their lives.

My take on it is simple- been there, done that, does NOT work.

Sorry but I could not let that go.

Whacking him will stop the biting if you are prepared to hit him hard enough.

At this stage that will have to be pretty darn hard.

Or you can teach him.

Your colt, your call.

Jane,

You wonder why some people take offense to what you say sometimes yet you're saying what some of us KNOW has worked for us does not work. I understand you have a different opinion, but that's all it is -- YOUR opinion. I'm not sure why something that has worked for me and others hasn't worked with your horses. Physical punishment as a consequence of biting is pretty much what a dominant horse would do to discourage the biter. I don't think a single one of us enjoys "beating" a horse, but sometimes that is the best way to deal with biting.

Jill

 

[Helen]

I have read all the posts and I just want to say, THANK YOU JANE (RABBITFIZZ) for your common sense approach to this situation. Not everyone takes offense to what you say.

I have raised four boys, 1 was 6 months old and totally wild when I got him, 1 was 13 hours old when I purchased him and I went to the farm at least twice a week to spend time with him, and 2 where born on my farm. They have all gone through their growing up phases and I have yet, nor will I ever, need a crop to keep them in line.

 

[Jill]

But what you describe is a lot different than a 2yo stallion who is well into the habbit of biting.

 

[New2Minis]

My take on his behavior is that he was allowed to get away with it by the previous owner just not haveing any interaction with him, only on occasion and then he would misbehave so she would just return him to his paddock and so I think he has learned if I misbehave I will be fed and left alone. But then again the previous owner has owned him since May and before that he was shown (so I know he behaved then, I have 15 ribbons he won). Like I said before I think he is just so use to getting away with it. He NEVER pins his ears when he bites, he just constantly has his mouth ready to chomp when you get near his head. Even when you try and pet the top of his head, he wants to bite........So I have to love on his body and not his face right now.....which I hate cause I love their sweet lil faces! It is so frustrating , I love his sassyness but the biting has got to go................

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[rabbitsfizz]

OK I will attempt to explain my take on this a little more clearly

I have worked most f my life with autistic and otherwise demanding or damaged children and I have found that methods used with them sometimes also apply to animals, and vice versa.

What I am trying to explain is horses mostly threaten violence they do NOT use it.

It is rare for a horse, kept in correct conditions- ie enough room for the hurt one to get away- to actually harm each other.

So- you whack this biter and he bites twice as hard because you have "challenged" him .........

what do you do next???

If you take more time with this colt and teach him not to bite, he will never bite again.

If you take the shortcut he will stop biting because it hurts and he does not like being hurt.

And then, one day when he finds someone he can bite and get away with it, maybe when you no longer own him and his new owner is weaker or has a small child- he will BITE and then he will be called vicious.

Of COURSE whacking a colt will stop it biting, quite often, in the short term.

What I am saying it will not do is TEACH it not to bite.

I had no intention of turning this into a "Me versus Them" issue- the OP is at liberty to take whatever they wish out of all these answers but please- I did not take this to a personal level at any time, except with my last post when I felt I had to answer Jean personally as she had done the same to me.

And that was for Jean to answer, if she so wished, Jill, not for you to chime in.

I do apologise to the OP and to the Forum for this getting a little heated.

BUT I have had as much if not more experience as some of the posters- I DO speak from experience and I DO know that some of the "accepted" methods are no longer acceptable- there are simply better ways to do things.

I am well aware that a biting colt is a nuisance and a potential danger and I did read the original post carefully, I still think hitting him is the wrong way to go in this instance.

If he were a baby trying a nip a quick flip or a squeal would do it, Yes.

To stop this one with violence is going to take some hard whacking.

As I said it is your colt.

It is your call.

Edited to add- just read your post- what about (and I am serious) borrowing a dog "sleeve" so it does not hurt and just standing there until he stops??

I also once use a Bike helmet with Visor on a nipping the face area stallion- big stallion!!- he did not see the transparent visor and tried a quick nip- that surprised him no end.

This is not aggression as I see it it is learned behaviour and needs to be "Unlearned"

 

[Jill]

If you have something to say and it's only open for comment to one person then send it via PM. I am not sorry to have expressed my opinion.

 

[kaykay]

i dont have nearly the years of experience that jean and rabbit do. But I would say the answer is in the middle

I have seen many horses like the one described. He does have to be reprimanded for biting. But he also has to have lots of handling with consistency being the key. With a horse like this you can never let them get by with even one small thing because it will lead to something bigger. You always have to be one step ahead of a horse like this. And the biggest tool with a horse like this is being consistent EVERY SINGLE time you are with him, even if its just feeding him or petting him.

Ive watched over and over at shows. Leanna and Fran can tell you ive gotten on both of them for this. They have a horse on the lead and they are chatting with someone. The horse gets impatient and nudges them. They ignore it and keep chatting. The horse nudges them again. They ignore it. Then the horse gets really impatient and really nudges or nips. Now they correct the horse. But they let him get it away with it 2 times before they did anyting. May seem like a small thing but its really not. Its adds up to the big picture. Its a very conflicting message to send to the horse. That its okay sometimes and sometimes its not. If something is not acceptable its not acceptable at any time. Consistency, consistency, consistency!!! Ive watched parents do the same thing with children LOL.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The comment was not only open to one person, it was only directed at one person.

I do not generally use PM's this is an open Forum and we can usually get further by keeping it in the open.

I said nothing that could not be said in public, it was merely that it was said to a specific person and the way the message was worded this was obvious.

This is basically all I have to say on this subject, what is actually done is entirely up to the OP.

 

[Jill]

...

This is basically all I have to say on this subject.....

Glad to hear it, Jane

 

[Buckskin gal]

I was wondering if this colt had been with others his age before you bought him? We have found that sometimes the younger ones will see if they can get away with nipping [and they soon learn from us they can't] but of all the minis I have known there were only two that became serious biters at round the age of one and two and these were individuals that had no other horses with them. Both owners were unsure of how to deal with it and both a little intimidated by it. With some good advise they did get them to stop it, but I wonder if being an only horse makes biting more of an issue....sometimes I think they are just frustrated at being alone but then I am sure there are other reasons for them to start biting also. I don't use a heavy hand in training the minis but hubby did have one bite him and he quickly reacted getting right into his face with the horse going over backwards and being really surprised by it....must say he didn't try it again! I think not only one way is best for every person. Some of us loose strength as we grow older with having arthritis etc. so we do learn to use methods which are less forcefull. No one should be so narrow minded as to think that their way will work for everyone. If teaching can be done with kindness I think it is better for the horse and the person......know I don't want to be taught by someone who is cranky!

: Mary

I posted a couple of days ago about getting a new coming 2 year old Colt. He is a rearer and a biter! So far he has done very good after a few corrections about not rearing but he wants to bite NON STOP.......What do I do about this, I have never had one that wants to BITE constantly????

 

[Jill]

I would imagine it is worse on a horse who has been alone for awhile especially as a youngster and the reason I feel that is the case is if a horse is with another horse and bites it too hard, the other horse will retaliate physically.

 

[HGFarm]

There are many good ideas on here to draw from.... so you will have a huge variety to find something that works for your boy. Every horse is different.

Let's not turn this into another brawl.

I will add however, that if the day ever comes that I have to suit up in 'armor' and a helmet to go out with my horses, just shoot me.

A mare or other members of the herd are not going to take time to 'teach' another not to bite or not to be nasty towards them. The result is a quick immediate punishment and it doesnt take very long for the horse to figure out the others are to be respected. They kick or bite back, then move on. I have seen young stallions turned out with mares that would not take 'no' for an answer and had to be told 'several' times. The mare dealt out the punishment until he backed off and behaved.

Horse brains do not work like human brains and they need to be dealt with accordingly, in a way that a horse can comprehend, but it may take a variety of methods to figure out what.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I will add however, that if the day ever comes that I have to suit up in 'armor' and a helmet to go out with my horses, just shoot me.

LOL i totally agree I mean I am not saying they can't do damage they can but come on these are 250 lb horses here not 17+ hand warmbloods and even with the worst mannered of those I never felt the need for a helmet or suit of armor for ground work

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[Leeana]

Biting is the one thing that i just dont allow bc its one of the things that can get out of hand very fast if they are aloud to get away with it. Now im no expert but this is what *I* would do if it was me.

I would smack there mouth and back them up! Backing them up shows them i am the boss and if they back up THEY loose. I wouldnt pull on the lead to back them up. I'd flap my arms and yell and scream and MAKE the horse back down on there own, now im not going to do this at a show and make myself look like a nut but it should really be done the same way everytime and at a show i would just back them up w/out the yelling and flapping around my arms.

Yes Kay has gotten after fran and i many times for chatting and ignoring what the horse was doing, i wont lie lol. It should be done consistantly bc if not then that is just sending mixed sygnals.

Come to my barn, you will find no biters i can garentee it. For me, backing the horse up is how i handle things ..i make THEM back down and it has worked for me. You have to look 'mean' and angry ...YOU ARE THE BOSS MARE ...YOU ARE THERE BOSS ...AND THEY ANSWER TO YOU. If that horse is even going to think about biting you or disrespecting you then we have us a serious problem.

This is why i'm a mini person, its much easier to fix these things with a 250lb mini as compared to a 1,300 quarter horse.

 

[looney2n]

As long as there are so many experienced 'stallion' people on here, I am curious as to what to do with a situation with my little colt. He is 7 months old. (the one in the avatar) I have trained him to halter,lead, trot and pick up his feet on command and he has done very well. I even run him next to the 4 wheeler on a lead rope (very slowly and cautiously). When I am in the pen with him, he is an absolute gentleman, but when my grandkids come over and they go in the pen, he must see them as playmates or something because he right away wants to rear and push them around. He has even tucked in his butt and pinned those ears like he's going to haul off and kick them. It scares me to death so I DO NOT let the kids in there without getting him haltered and on a lead rope with me right next to him. So my question is ....how do I get him to stop this. I don't have the kids around as often as I'd like. Ideally if I had a child around to 'use', I would have them present while I am training and pull them in on leading and such. But I don't so I would love some advice as to how to stop this behavior. Incidentally, it seems that the smaller the child, the more apt he is to do this. If the kids are bigger than the colts eye level, it doesnt seem to cause this problem but because he's displayed this behavior, I won't even let the bigger kids in by him. What are the thoughts out there on this? Thanks in advance for any ideas or advice.

Looney2n

 

[New2Minis]

OK so I have had little "Jaws" for a week or so now and he is a persistant little $**t , my farrier came out today and first of all thought he was beautiful. Then when he went to pet him all he saw was teeth and hooves............My farriers first impression was "he is a smart, persistant lil thing!" If I repremand him he comes right back so consistancy is going to be the key. I know if he was shown successfully back in Feb 2006 then his "attitude" came from the owner that had him from May 2006 until now. So he thinks he can get anyway with it because his other owner allowed it..........but I am sorry little "Jaws" has another thing comin..............I just love him though !!!!

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